Originally Posted by jonspd
Nice they did a make over on the left over 4 pipe sinks
I wonder why newegg hasn't changed it's listing yet I contacted then tuesday.
There 9600 BE says no HSF included....
Well, I got it from Newegg... so you will get the same thing I strongly suspect.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
I got mwave...
since newegg never fixed there typo.
also Y we are on the subject what stepping is yours? week code etc?
B2 stepping, no other stepping is available. Week 47... haven't booted it up, the Asus M3A Deluxe is enroute.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
Hmmm... people might be real pished off with this particular CPU. It's not what we see in reviews or ES samples which is why I don't give a damn about reviews/ES samples really, it's actually v.poor for an unlocked version. Seems this one is the rejected 9900 TBH and I'm seeing random lockups (which looks either like a CPU problem or ATi drivers) which are halting the oc.
It's no way like the X2 5000/6400 BE's. In fact, to be brutally honest, it's worse oc/stability than my 1st 9500 and 2nd/3rd 9600s.
Early facts: Yep, on all Phenoms so far I could hit 2600MHz stock volts/vid (screenable/benchable and perfectly stable with the 9500 at least). The 9600 did it at max but the 9500 would do 2815MHz uptil my last attempt and 2705MHz was fully benchable easily at 1.35V. 1980MHz on NB/HT was easy stable with it. On this one:
Change multi: no 2600.
Change HT ref: no boot/lockup after 212MHz HT ref.
Max volts: no 2600.
Max vid: no 2600.
Max everything: no 2600.
Problems: Very low HT ref. limit, as I said much earlier. If they'd given my 9500 with an unlocked multi/vid, you'd have 3GHz bagged. But even with 1.604V, 1.5VID CPU, at any multi/HT ref., stock RAM/NB/HT, 2600MHz will freeze very quickly (hence why I'm not even trying for it because it's totally luck based). It is tougher to oc than even the last Phenoms I tested, it's going to take much time but I don't see much improvement.
Power: And yep, the power shoots up massively once you change the VID/Volts, just like with any CPU incl. Penryn. 447W AC is maximum draw so far (bootup) with max VID/Volts on CPU at 205x11.5 up from 160W AC at the same MHz but stock VID/Volts. No matter what the case, I never run 400W 85% load CPU settings if 100MHz less would be 190W. It's not feasible.
Max no reboot/no lockup: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=295627
Stability: And yes, no matter what voltage/vid I gave it, that was totally unstable. It couldn't even pass SysTool 16M.
This is definitely worse than I expected and I have a gut feeling this is going to throw the enthusiast crowd totally off AMD and pretty damn anti (ignoring fanatics). Even though no Yorkfield or Kentsfield (EU, maybe in NA too) is competing for the price/segment with Phenom yet especially bought used or whenever they release Yorky according to their revised Q1 plans and not withstanding the fact that all early Yorkfields (non-cherry) so far but the >$1000 QX aren't oc'ing higher even unstable than ~3.8GHz on air (Q9450/Q9550), the problem of high FSB expensive boards required due to the low multis... still, all thats far higher and better in performance than Phenom 9500/9600/9600BE. A Q6600 is the closest and only competitor yet and it beats all 3 Phenom offerings in perf/oc.
BIOS: I've tested BIOS 113 and 122 so far. Both seem as if they don't even support this CPU. No NB FID changing, no NB VID changing (CMOS clear needed to POST). I obviously do have the latest decent BIOS and I'll test it next.
Very nice Jack. My 9600BE has that HSF included.
Although, I hope yours is better than what we've seen 3 users experience with retail so far. Basically, a non-oc CPU.
one fin dude has also limit on 2.6ghz with 9600 BEHmmm... people might be real pished off with this particular CPU. It's not what we see in reviews or ES samples which is why I don't give a damn about reviews/ES samples really, it's actually v.poor for an unlocked version. Seems this one is the rejected 9900 TBH and I'm seeing random lockups (which looks either like a CPU problem or ATi drivers) which are halting the oc.
It's no way like the X2 5000/6400 BE's. In fact, to be brutally honest, it's worse oc/stability than my 1st 9500 and 2nd/3rd 9600s.
Early facts: Yep, on all Phenoms so far I could hit 2600MHz stock volts/vid (screenable/benchable and perfectly stable with the 9500 at least). The 9600 did it at max but the 9500 would do 2815MHz uptil my last attempt and 2705MHz was fully benchable easily at 1.35V. 1980MHz on NB/HT was easy stable with it. On this one:
Change multi: no 2600.
Change HT ref: no boot/lockup after 212MHz HT ref.
Max volts: no 2600.
Max vid: no 2600.
Max everything: no 2600.
Problems: Very low HT ref. limit, as I said much earlier. If they'd given my 9500 with an unlocked multi/vid, you'd have 3GHz bagged. But even with 1.604V, 1.5VID CPU, at any multi/HT ref., stock RAM/NB/HT, 2600MHz will freeze very quickly (hence why I'm not even trying for it because it's totally luck based). It is tougher to oc than even the last Phenoms I tested, it's going to take much time but I don't see much improvement.
Power: And yep, the power shoots up massively once you change the VID/Volts, just like with any CPU incl. Penryn. 447W AC is maximum draw so far (bootup) with max VID/Volts on CPU at 205x11.5 up from 160W AC at the same MHz but stock VID/Volts. No matter what the case, I never run 400W 85% load CPU settings if 100MHz less would be 190W. It's not feasible.
Max no reboot/no lockup: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=295627
Stability: And yes, no matter what voltage/vid I gave it, that was totally unstable. It couldn't even pass SysTool 16M.
This is definitely worse than I expected and I have a gut feeling this is going to throw the enthusiast crowd totally off AMD and pretty damn anti (ignoring fanatics). Even though no Yorkfield or Kentsfield (EU, maybe in NA too) is competing for the price/segment with Phenom yet especially bought used or whenever they release Yorky according to their revised Q1 plans and not withstanding the fact that all early Yorkfields (non-cherry) so far but the >$1000 QX aren't oc'ing higher even unstable than ~3.8GHz on air (Q9450/Q9550), the problem of high FSB expensive boards required due to the low multis... still, all thats far higher and better in performance than Phenom 9500/9600/9600BE. A Q6600 is the closest and only competitor yet and it beats all 3 Phenom offerings in perf/oc.
BIOS: I've tested BIOS 113 and 122 so far. Both seem as if they don't even support this CPU. No NB FID changing, no NB VID changing (CMOS clear needed to POST). I obviously do have the latest decent BIOS and I'll test it next.
Very nice Jack. My 9600BE has that HSF included.
Although, I hope yours is better than what we've seen 3 users experience with retail so far. Basically, a non-oc CPU.
btw 131 bios didnt change anything considering mem divider issue...
A64 2800@ 9x279 # Abit kv8pro 3rd EYE (vtt and vmem modded) # 2x256 mb TwinMos memory( with old winbond ch-5 max:240@3.5v) # 2x256mb KHX 3000 memory (with old winbond bh-5 max:270@3.7v)
9600 Pro LE with vgpu mod
Good Job!
KeZzZu: I've addressed you in the ending here-> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=569
And that makes 3 guys I'm aware of with max <2600MHz retail off-the-shelf 9600BE's, i.e., not handpicked aka cherry picked. I'm not happy and neither would anyone else be.
Very nice Jack. My 9600BE has that HSF included.
Although, I hope yours is better than what we've seen 3 users experience with retail so far. Basically, a non-oc CPU.
I have lots of different things I want to do with this CPU, but my hope is to get at least 2.6 Ghz out of it.... that should not be a problem, hopefully. Perhaps I will have better luck with the Asus board (which reminds me, have you tried that board yet?)
Last edited by JumpingJack; 01-11-2008 at 02:10 AM.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
Yeah I was hoping for something similar, left most of the testing and analysis till this CPU since it allows eradicating external clocks form influencing any performance, but it's just a no go situation here. You really can't do jack (sorry, not you Jack
ASUS' board is pretty good from what I've heard, came out late around here, hasn't achieved a higher HT ref./oc than Gigabyte 790FX boards that I've seen but has good stability all round, and IIRC it allows you the option to change CPU NB volts through the BIOS, which is a very good addition if the CPU is limited by IMC volts for higher oc. Although many reviewers used the ASUS board (for whatever reason, I'm unaware) I'm no fan of ASUS motherboards, pricing and support, apart from one or two Intel and older AM2 boards they have in every chipset lineup.
I've not tried the ASUS board. Was willing to try it straight after this board and this BIOS I'm testing had this CPU not funnelled out sub 2.5GHz. There's just no point me doing anything with it if it can't consistently, repeatedly bench >2.5GHz.
Asus boards for AMD have in general been poor to mediocre to sometimes average, with a great one now and then. They are typically very good with Intel though.... however, I agree -- especially recently -- their BIOSes have been horridly buggy and overall support is generally poor ... I picked up a P35 Gigabyte a few weeks ago and built a WHS, and am more or less pleased with it... it is a lower part of the midrange boards, but works great for what I wanted.Yeah I was hoping for something similar, left most of the testing and analysis till this CPU since it allows eradicating external clocks form influencing any performance, but it's just a no go situation here. You really can't do jack (sorry, not you Jack
ASUS' board is pretty good from what I've heard, came out late around here, hasn't achieved a higher HT ref./oc than Gigabyte 790FX boards that I've seen but has good stability all round, and IIRC it allows you the option to change CPU NB volts through the BIOS, which is a very good addition if the CPU is limited by IMC volts for higher oc. Although many reviewers used the ASUS board (for whatever reason, I'm unaware) I'm no fan of ASUS motherboards, pricing and support, apart from one or two Intel and older AM2 boards they have in every chipset lineup.
I've not tried the ASUS board. Was willing to try it straight after this board and this BIOS I'm testing had this CPU not funnelled out sub 2.5GHz. There's just no point me doing anything with it if it can't consistently, repeatedly bench >2.5GHz.
I have already downloaded BIOSes from Asus (only 2 on their public website available, 603 -- no patch, and 801 with patch).... this is something I wanted to test as well, a BIOS with no patch, a BIOS with patch, and a BIOS with patch + AOD enabled and disabled patch.
The board arrives tomorrow, and I have some other stuff to do, but I will post a preliminary OC run using multipliers only and let you know how it shakes out.
Jack
Last edited by JumpingJack; 01-11-2008 at 02:55 AM.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
Thanks for the info KTE and good luck with your 9600BE Jack!
KTE,could be your board/bios is causing trouble with OC so far?What was max. OC you achieved with raising HTT and using stock multi(or better yet integer multi)?
Jack: Await the results.
Informal: There was definitely a problem somewhere and narrowing it down I found it was AOD Assistant at bootup causing lockups. Since then I've not seen it.
But even still, if you choose >200x13 (2600MHz) with perfectly stable and stock RAM/NB/HT the system locks up there are then with 1.472V and 1.4VID. That's already topping 350W load. Basically while manipulating the PLL, it locks up. I recall Xbit labs saying 2800MHz was a breeze perfectly stable and 3000MHz needed just a few more volts for 100% stability by simply using multipliers. Well, there's the difference with different items. I've maxed out the VID/Voltage/HT/Multi, the system won't boot past 2550MHz and 2600MHz is screenable but will freeze very quickly. 2500MHz didn't freeze or anything, is quick short benchable but failed P95 after 4 minutes or so and 2500MHz was not even 3D benchable (Cinebench - I'm only intrested in all 4 cores yet).
Max on the same board, OS, AOD, BIOS is around 2914MHz with 9500. Even my last quick attempt just 2 minutes before packing it up reached this: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=288977
I've played with Phenom long enough to know the obvious trend in how to spot a bad oc'er, and this is one of them. The worst one so far. Max limit is upper 2.4 for stable operation. Voltage/Temps don't effect it really, stock gets you as far as 1.55V/1.5VID gets you and ambient 26C gets you as far as ambient 2C gets you.
Also AOD reads wrong values for temperatures, EVEREST is closest to correct I feel. AOD is basically showing me the ambient temps which are incorrect. EVEREST reads 10C higher idle at 1.18V/1.2VID which looks to be correct based on my previous experience.
I ran some Cinebench10, quickly since it's real world rendering and we've spotted some weird happenings around in the mutli-CPU rendering. Here are quick results and this time they have methodological accuracy as everything is kept constant but CPU speed/multi:
Setup
9600 BE @ 2000 (10x), 2100 (10.5x), 2200 (11x), 2300 (11.5x), 2400 (12x)
RAM @ 800 4-4-4-4 tRC 24 tRFC 75ns 1T
NB/HT @ 1800MHz
HT reference @ 200MHz
MSI K9A2 Platinum 1.13 BETA BIOS (no errata patch)
Format:
CPU Speed (%)
Single CPU Score (%)
Multiple CPU Score (%)
Multi-CPU Speedup
2000MHz (100%)
1698 CB-CPU (100%)
6404 CB-CPU (100%)
3.77x
2100MHz (105%)
1786 CB-CPU (105.2%)
6750 CB-CPU (105.4%)
3.78x
2200MHz (110%)
1868 CB-CPU (110%)
7060 CB-CPU (110.2%)
3.78x
2300MHz (115%)
1943 CB-CPU (114.4%)
7374 CB-CPU (115.1%)
3.80x
2400MHz (120%)
2015 CB-CPU (118.7%)
7765 CB-CPU (121.3%)
3.93x
That last one was odd. Usually I get 3.82x speedup but that was high. The trend I was looking for is there but I needed 2.5-2.8GHz benchable to find out more and that's not possible here.
Hey KTE, a little offtopic but it seems like this thread became the big Phenom knowledgebase so I'll go ahead and ask.
How are the 770 boards so far with X4 and X2? Any news? Especially on the Asus M3A and the Gigabyte MA-770 DS3.
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hmm just built a pc but all this phenom talk has me interested thinking about a 9600BE and a Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DQ6
Found out my CPU locks up at stock randomly without load. So I can pretty easily go get another now (too long a process with distributors though) but me thinks it's because of low stock VCore. Tested one notch higher VCore than "auto" and it hasn't locked up yet.
v0dka: the M3A has many options missing in the BIOS for Phenom. It's BIOS support is no where near as good as the 790FX attained with very little oc options. For X2, it's much better than many AM2 boards, especially when compared against the M2A. justapost, Thesavage and a few others have that particular board they're testing here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=171582Hey KTE, a little offtopic but it seems like this thread became the big Phenom knowledgebase so I'll go ahead and ask.
How are the 770 boards so far with X4 and X2? Any news? Especially on the Asus M3A and the Gigabyte MA-770 DS3.
As for the Gigabyte 770, I honestly don't know. I haven't even seen it yet.
Here's some quick real IMC (NB) overclocking with Phenom 9600BE at stock CPU MHz/HT ref. Like I said earlier, if you've overclocked the IMC properly then all software will pick it up correctly and in-sync.
Take a look at the AMD PowerMonitor. If you want to overclock the NB, then the only tool showing the NB VID accurately is this tool. It also shows the CPU VID accurately to 4dp.
Make note of the AOD button color (TLB caching). That's the one which gives you the highest bandwidth and lowest latency.
Max oc yet (v.unstable): http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=295791
Tried 1.732V and 1.5VID on CPU, which is way too high for my liking. 2.6GHz is just no go.
Last edited by KTE; 01-11-2008 at 09:11 AM.
KTE you had said 64bit os is better for this particular cpu/mobo combo would I be better off with 2000, xp, or 64bit windows.
High NB/HT clocks are quite easily possible. I've had 2.6GHz/2.6GHz (NB/HT) but went too high stock volts and it crashed while benching. I can't boot above 12x NB multi which seems like a BIOS limitation (even with high volts/vid). Here was one I saved at very low clock speeds (1.6GHz - no CnQ) and 2.4GHz NB/HT.
64-bit performs better in memory intensive applications/benchmarks and even some calculations like wPrime. XP is usually the most trouble-free, but why you want 32b or 64b will depend on why you're asking.
as anyone else tryed the new 1.2 bios which as been released?? im running it now but it seems to have a drop in performance with this bios.. does anyone know if it includes the tlb bug fix? if it does i will go back to 1.1
Asrock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 | i7-2700K @ 4.6ghz | 8GB 1600 | 6990
7 HDD & Crucial RealSSD M4 128GB | 2 DVD?RW Drives | Blu-Ray Rewriter |
Zalman ZM-MFC2 Multi Fan Controller | Corsair AX1200 1200w | Win 8 pro 64bit
Samsung 46" 3d tv | HAF-X | Samsung S III phone
Well, there will be a wait... my little boy is very sick.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
yes the patch is in 1.2 bios AFAIK
KTE I guess i will stick with the trouble free method. (regarding the bug really-performance-hit)
sry to hear that my 1st little 3 month boy has RSV and is taking breathing treatments at this time also
Last edited by jonspd; 01-11-2008 at 12:07 PM.
Yes.
AFAIK every BIOS after P0D for MS-7376 has the TLB errata patch applied (no option to turn off)
This is a new one I'm testing now (P0E->after 131) and it enables 1066 EPP RAM to run at DDR2-1066. But just look at the RAM performance/latency, you might as well have 100FSB here.
4-5-5-15 1T: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=295931
90ns latency compared to 50ns is where it should be. Pretty much everything seems very slowed up.
This BIOS doesn't allow any RAM timings lower than 3-5-5-15.
Sorry to hear that Jack but you can take as long as you need. I hope he gets well soon. Let me know if I can be of any help.
I wish him well quick and the same as above applies.sry to hear that my 1st little 3 month boy has RSV and is taking breathing treatments at this time also
DID can be zero
I found that the max async latency differs ~10ns. That has an impact on benchmarks. Using the same latency leaded to much more linear results. So i keep an eye on that subtiming now. Might be common sense for ocers.
how can i flash back to 1.1 safely?
Asrock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 | i7-2700K @ 4.6ghz | 8GB 1600 | 6990
7 HDD & Crucial RealSSD M4 128GB | 2 DVD?RW Drives | Blu-Ray Rewriter |
Zalman ZM-MFC2 Multi Fan Controller | Corsair AX1200 1200w | Win 8 pro 64bit
Samsung 46" 3d tv | HAF-X | Samsung S III phone
With this board the options are either 1 or 2.
I haven't seen that option on this board.I found that the max async latency differs ~10ns. That has an impact on benchmarks. Using the same latency leaded to much more linear results. So i keep an eye on that subtiming now. Might be common sense for ocers.
10ns EVEREST RAM latency? Are you sure about this?
There' nothing I've seen giving you that much gain on this board so far (no patch BIOS). I mean the major timings on K10 are ~seven and 5-5-5-15 2T tRC 35 tRFC 195ns wouldn't get 10ns higher latency than 3-3-3-11 1T tRC 24 tRFC 75ns on my board. Usually 4-5ns is max.
This might help you although it concerns K8/DDR, it is still simple enough to apply in many areas.
gareth170: Using the exact same method you used to flash 1.2, just with the correct v1.1 BIOS file.
Ok KTE..
Can I get a short list of the options difference you see with POD compared to 113 when running a black edition of the Phenom? did you take not of this when you where playing with the 2 different bios. Is the POD really a better performer then the 113? more buggy?
just wondering I hope you havn't already stated all of this.
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