MagiCool XTREME NOVA 1080 ( 9 X 120mm) Radiator

[gmcg]

gmcg - $50 for MCR320's in US/Canada. Shipping will depend on the BOX used as all 3 MCR320's can be put in one.

You didnt. I agree PA's are expensive here but MCR's, BIX's, and others are not. Performance will be better with just about any of them and within margin of error for price difference. They also offer more versatility in installation.

Well, that is an assumption as we have no tests for 1080 - we have tests for Alphacool NexXxos Extreme only, right? Are they definitely exactly the same blocks (x3) with such difference in weights?

i would recommend not disagreeing with MARCI on your first post

I am sorry, I am a nOOb and don't mind to get some kicks ... There is no offense at all, therefore I have started the post confirming my status ...
I am looking for some knowledge here, that's it

[Waterlogged]

Well, that is an assumption as we have no tests for 1080 - we have tests for Alphacool NexXxos Extreme only, right? Are they definitely exactly the same blocks (x3) with such difference in weights?

It's an easy enough assumption to make when one studies the design of the 1080.

[rambling post] There are 30 rows of copper tubes that run the length of the rad for the water to flow through. Now, both the in and out fittings are on the same end of the rad which tells us that it's either a 2 pass or 4 pass rad, to determine this, we only need to look at the number of plenum chamber caps on both ends. On the 1080, there are 3 on the end with the fittings which means that you have one plenum chamber for the inlet fittings, one for a 180º return pass and the third for outlet fittings and we have 2 plenums on the other side for 180º returns. This setup makes it a 4 pass rad. Now, we go back to our 30 rows of tubes, we can't divide this evenly among 4 passes so this means that 2 passes must be different than the others. Again, we go back to looking at both the plenum chamber caps (at both ends this time) and the amount of tubes per each cap. On the inlet, we see a full count of 10 tubes, yet at the other end (with only 2 plenum chambers) we see 15 tubes per plenum, this means that 5 tubes only return coolant to the end it came into the rad. This will offer a substantial restriction to the loop which will be furthered doubled due to the fact that the coolant has only gone half way through the rad. It still needs to go through another 180º bend, another 5 tube run, another 180º bend until it can get back to a 10 tube run and then out of the rad. With rads like the MCR, we have balanced flow throughout the rad, and even with 3 in the same loop, the pressure drop would be a bit less due to this balanced flow (that and they're just a better flowing rad to start with).[/rambling post]

Hope the ramblings of an old man made enough sense to help you sort this out.

I am sorry, I am a nOOb and don't mind to get some kicks ... There is no offense at all, therefore I have started the post confirming my status ...
I am looking for some knowledge here, that's it

[emPUR3]

And aside from the cooling capabilities, this thing must be a thirsty sucker! Wonder how much fluid it would take up.

[Panthols]

And aside from the cooling capabilities, this thing must be a thirsty sucker! Wonder how much fluid it would take up.

That varies on how much air you manage to get out

[septim]

3x320 radiators of liquid and then some more... and also the pumping power you'd need for this to be effecient...

[gmcg]

It's an easy enough assumption to make when one studies the design of the 1080.

[rambling post] There are 30 rows of copper tubes that run the length of the rad for the water to flow through. Now, both the in and out fittings are on the same end of the rad which tells us that it's either a 2 pass or 4 pass rad, to determine this, we only need to look at the number of plenum chamber caps on both ends. On the 1080, there are 3 on the end with the fittings which means that you have one plenum chamber for the inlet fittings, one for a 180º return pass and the third for outlet fittings and we have 2 plenums on the other side for 180º returns. This setup makes it a 4 pass rad. Now, we go back to our 30 rows of tubes, we can't divide this evenly among 4 passes so this means that 2 passes must be different than the others. Again, we go back to looking at both the plenum chamber caps (at both ends this time) and the amount of tubes per each cap. On the inlet, we see a full count of 10 tubes, yet at the other end (with only 2 plenum chambers) we see 15 tubes per plenum, this means that 5 tubes only return coolant to the end it came into the rad. This will offer a substantial restriction to the loop which will be furthered doubled due to the fact that the coolant has only gone half way through the rad. It still needs to go through another 180º bend, another 5 tube run, another 180º bend until it can get back to a 10 tube run and then out of the rad. With rads like the MCR, we have balanced flow throughout the rad, and even with 3 in the same loop, the pressure drop would be a bit less due to this balanced flow (that and they're just a better flowing rad to start with).[/rambling post]

Hope the ramblings of an old man made enough sense to help you sort this out.

Wow, thats a serious piece of knowledge, thanks for your ramblings, an old man
I can't find a good picture of 1080 (with open sides), where did you find yours?

If you are correct, does it mean that these all websites lie and 1080 suck?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=21622

ULTRA-EXTREME! The largest and most extreme radiator we have ever offered!

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/59..._Radiator.html

The MagiCool XTREME Nova 1080 Radiator is a "3 x 3" 120mm Radiator for ultimate cooling.

http://www.aquatuning.de/product_inf...-Radiator.html

Der Absolute HighEnd Radiator

http://www.pcextreme.com/catalog/sku/ex-rad-123.html

The MagiCool XTREME Nova 1080 Radiator is a "3 x 3" 120mm Radiator for ultimate cooling.

There are some more ...

The quad version sucks too, in your opinion?
http://www.cooling-station.net/index...id=171&seite=2

[Panthols]

Wow, thats a serious piece of knowledge, thanks for your ramblings, an old man
I can't find a good picture of 1080 (with open sides), where did you find yours?

If you are correct, does it mean that these all websites lie and 1080 suck?

Please, forgive me if I'm wrong, but those links were to a product description from a online store. I don't exactly expect truthful reviews from a companies marketing line to sell their product. I can start cutting off 2x2cm strips of aluminum foil and claim it's The MOST EXTREME TIM ever created!!!. There's nothing stopping me from doing that, and etailers would have that listed as the product description if that was what they were given.

The whole point of the discussion is that the rad it's based off of is not very good, somewhat similar to a BIX3 in series, except harder to bleed. All that has been stated is that any 3 decent 120.3 radiators would tear this a new one, and be easier to bleed. It's a 120 x 9 radiator designed for high flow fans that has a dense fin structure requiring high CFM fans (90+) which will be VERY loud. Not to mention one of the most restricitive you can find.

IMHO, you would be better off with 2 of any other 120 x 3 rads than one of these. When you figure in that you can run 3 MCR-320's in series for ~ the same price, this thing really doesn't look appealing.

[Waterlogged]

Exactly, it's creative marketing from the manufacturer.

For the pics, I have non of the inside of the rad. I simply use the pics from FrozenCPU as they have the best pics of the rad, 1 from each end.

The quad is a bit harder to get a read on as each end only has one plenum chamber cap. From the looks of it, it "might" be a 2 pass with 12 tubes in each direction. If this is the case, it's very low restriction but that alone doesn't make a rad perform well. Tube thickness, shape, fin thickness, fin solder type, fin density, and fin geometry are just some of the other variables that come into play. If it's not a 2 pass, it's even worse than the 1080 for restriction as it would have 4 passes with only 3 tubes per pass.

[gmcg]

Please, forgive me if I'm wrong, but those links were to a product description from a online store. I don't exactly expect truthful reviews from a companies marketing line to sell their product. I can start cutting off 2x2cm strips of aluminum foil and claim it's The MOST EXTREME TIM ever created!!!. There's nothing stopping me from doing that, and etailers would have that listed as the product description if that was what they were given.

Problem is that the market for watercooling devices is quite small, items can't be returned. It means that misrepresentation of information, even created by manufacturers, will significantly lower trust of customers and -finally- sales. Such companies as performance-pcs and frozencpu doubtfully can afford such kind of risk, can they? It is a huge difference between you as a person and a known already branded reseller ...

The whole point of the discussion is that the rad it's based off of is not very good, somewhat similar to a BIX3 in series, except harder to bleed. All that has been stated is that any 3 decent 120.3 radiators would tear this a new one, and be easier to bleed. It's a 120 x 9 radiator designed for high flow fans that has a dense fin structure requiring high CFM fans (90+) which will be VERY loud. Not to mention one of the most restricitive you can find.

I really doubt that anyone will argue about this statement ... but again, it depends on a goal or required power of dissipation ... it might be enough to use 1080 even in a passive mode sometimes, as in many cases it is an overkill ... 3xPA120.3 is an over-over kill

IMHO, you would be better off with 2 of any other 120 x 3 rads than one of these. When you figure in that you can run 3 MCR-320's in series for ~ the same price, this thing really doesn't look appealing.

May be 2 of PA120.3 will be better ... or may be not. Probably 3xMCR-320 will be better, that is another option - and as the price is comparable, it is a good option. They are not so attractive in design though.

Exactly, it's creative marketing from the manufacturer.

You mean lie = creative marketing, if someone can sell with it? But for how long?

For the pics, I have non of the inside of the rad. I simply use the pics from FrozenCPU as they have the best pics of the rad, 1 from each end.

Interesting - this one, I assume? http://www.frozencpu.com/products/im..._Radiator.html
But on this picture both sides are equal, may be I don't understand anything that you are talking about, how about the inlet and outlet fittings on the other side for two other ports?
"there are 3 on the end with the fittings which means that you have one plenum chamber for the inlet fittings, one for a 180º return pass and the third for outlet fittings and we have 2 plenums on the other side for 180º returns.

The quad is a bit harder to get a read on as each end only has one plenum chamber cap. From the looks of it, it "might" be a 2 pass with 12 tubes in each direction. If this is the case, it's very low restriction but that alone doesn't make a rad perform well. Tube thickness, shape, fin thickness, fin solder type, fin density, and fin geometry are just some of the other variables that come into play. If it's not a 2 pass, it's even worse than the 1080 for restriction as it would have 4 passes with only 3 tubes per pass.

There is a same feeling that quantity of passes is not completely a confirmation of performance level ...
Regarding worse performance, there is a thought that temperatures on the test link were quite good ...

I still want to try 1080 and see how it will perform ... 3xMCR320 may be a good solution, but I don't know where to assemble them. 3xPA120.3 are way too overpriced, IMO, and an over-over kill for my setup, having the same problem for me regarding the assembling place.

Better than 1080 design-wise could be Thermaltake Symphony ... but it is impossible to find one without the pumps/WB and with 1/2 tubing ... is it also terrible from your point of view regarding the restrictions / performance "as-is" with replacement of pumps/tubing/WB?

P.S. I really like your slogan

[STEvil]

If you're in Canada you can get the MCR320's from NCIX.

The quotes proclaiming this radiator to be the ultimate cooling and most extreme and etc are all based on using a single radiator as competition.

This radiator vs a single MCR320 or PA120.3 would probably beat both of them, but not if you used two or three of each vs the 1080.

I dont see where you are trying to go gmcg? This radiator just isnt very good and is no easier (in fact probably harder) to install than 2 or 3 120.3 style radiators.

[gmcg]

If you're in Canada you can get the MCR320's from NCIX.

The quotes proclaiming this radiator to be the ultimate cooling and most extreme and etc are all based on using a single radiator as competition.

I think so as well.

This radiator vs a single MCR320 or PA120.3 would probably beat both of them, but not if you used two or three of each vs the 1080.

Probably you are correct again - or may be not according to Marci's opinion, explained in this thread before.

Course it'd win vs 2x MCR320s. You can only compare 3x120.3 vs the Nova. It will always win over anything else with less surface area.

I dont see where you are trying to go gmcg? This radiator just isnt very good and is no easier (in fact probably harder) to install than 2 or 3 120.3 style radiators.

I personally like it's design (it is easy for me to mount it outside also) and wanted to ask knowledgeable people what are the cons regarding this rad vs advertisment, and Waterlogged provided some technical information, which I was looking for.

[gmcg]

Well, today I have received the beast and was quite surprised to see only two ports on the sides ...

It means all discussions regarding 4 passes for my particular version were wrong ...
An assumption that 1080 is a combination of 3x NexXxos Extreme 360 (3) is also completely wrong (I am sorry, Marci, no offense), not only because of difference in weights, but also because of the rows counting ... each NexXos Extreme 360 (3) has 14 rows, and 1080 has only 30 rows, it means 10x3, not 14x3 ... it is a completely different beast.


It was also interesting to see that 1080 is designed for low CFM fans or no fans (a silent type of operation) ... the density is quite low - comparing to BIX - for example - and looks more like PA120.x ...

For me personally it is very convenient to use this RAD, for now I use only one 8800GTX, though as soon as 9800GX/GTX will be available, I intend to use SLI, therefore as soon as I need to add some heat dissipation power I'll just add some fans on the RAD only ... don't need to re-design the system.

[_Slim_Shady_]

This banana substitute for emphatic use of common language is just too 'twee'
Who set up this crap? Someones maiden aunt girl guide troop leader?
Brown Owl with her 'bad language jar'?
The language runs deep and earthy. Mellors, DH Lawrence's game keeper didn't say "Thats your dancing bananas, down there" to Lady Chatterly.
Gawd, I've fallen in with a gang of twee tut-tutters!

I swear like ing sailor, but the last thing I want to read on the forum is some asshat's moronic stringing together of profane words that they term as prose.

Yes, I stole part of that line from the movie Swordfish.

I say bring on the god damn ing bananas...it is much better than the alternative!

[jabski]

lets see some temps

[STEvil]

Still looks like a 4-pass to me.

[Creek Tha Gray]

It'a a good option for a TEC setup.

best option but phase change is better.

[gmcg]

Still looks like a 4-pass to me.

I forgot to mention, it is a double row RAD ... if the flow is definitely like you have presented, constructors of such thing should not be called "engineers", IMO

[gmcg]

best option but phase change is better.

Well, something is always better ... http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coo...a-mach2gt.html

[Waterlogged]

Still looks like a 4-pass to me.

+1

I forgot to mention, it is a double row RAD ... if the flow is definitely like you have presented, constructors of such thing should not be called "engineers", IMO

Who said the ppl that designed those rads were engineers?

btw, same thing could be said about the fine folks in Tt's WC division.

[gmcg]

+1
Who said the ppl that designed those rads were engineers?
btw, same thing could be said about the fine folks in Tt's WC division.

Well, wait a second ... the restriction's "bottleneck" for that RAD should be more or less equal to a single x3 2 pass RAD, as sides have significantly less restriction being doubled ... therefore the restriction is actually based on the central part. What is wrong with dual pass x3 RAD regarding restriction? Why 3xMCR320 (or any other rads 3 x single3) will have less restriction being actually 6-passed vs this one, which is 4 passed (and only 2 passes are as restrictive as each of those 6), unless we use one-pass x3 rads, but except of PA160.1 what other RADs are 1-passed, especially if we are talking about x3 versions?
(3xMCR320 will have a HUGE pressure drop 3x18%=54% being 6-passed).

The pressure drop for 3x120.3 will be 18% (3x6%), may be even a bit more due to additional connections between RADs ... 1080 doubtfully has worse total restriction. I took a look inside, it's pipes are significantly bigger, than in BIX, therefore I assume it has less restriction than a single BIX (which has 17% pressure loss according to Marci's data).

Why do we consider 4 passing as "bad" while we are not talking about a single RAD here, but about a TRIPLE?

BTW I have no doubts that 3x120.3 will win against 1080 in my planned setup, may be even 2x120.3 will win ... but I have some doubts about 3xMCR320 due to a serious pressure drop ...

[Afterburner]

What are your temps pls....

[AliG]

İt's too big

that's what she said

[LockBreaker]

If you buy this stuff, then you have an excuse for that 200 dollar pump of yours.

[Afterburner]

that's what she said

[gmcg]

What are your temps pls....

A bit later, please, I was really busy with some other things.

It took some time to make a decision how to set up the RAD. Temperatures will be very low anyway for now, as I plan to use it with huge reserve - it should be able to handle QX9650@~5GHz and 2x9800GTX in the future, each 9800GTX will probably consume 300-350W - may be a bit more (comparing to 8800GTX and new 3870 X2), and CPU will have to dissipate around 150W @5GHz, AFAIK, in total it will be up to 850W to dissipate. It is not much, but now I have only 8800GTX and QX9650 to handle, therefore it is around ~350-400W in total (CPU@~5GHz and GPU@650MHz).
I am going to try and run it in a passive mode and get the temps reading and after that I am going to use 5xNoctua P12 in ULNA mode ... at least for now.

QX9650 is a great CPU, it can run at 3.2 GHz with 37 Idle/49 Load (2 hours running Prime 95 stress test) using ZeroTherm Nirvana 120 air cooler (I use it temporarily) at low fan speed (~1300-1500RPM) and 41 Idle/54 Load at lowest fan speed (~1000RPM), therefore I expect very good temps with a WC system.

I have made a test run for WC system, it looks that the flow is quite good. My setup for now is D-Tek fuzion (a bit bowed with a small o-ring)->MCP60->1080->MicroRes->Laing D5-38/810