they weren't creamed either... they were only slightly lower in FPS and about 1000-1200 marks in 3dmark 06. if i remember correctly, they got the same FPS and whatnot in crysis. so, if ATI actually puts out a decent driver for these cards they should smoke the 8800gt's. also, i've "heard," that the ATI's can OC better then the GT's but i dont' know that for sure.