Nvidia D8E (9800/8900) pushed till 2008? [FUD WARNING]

[quadnad]

Exactly...everyone who thinks 9800 or 8900 is in Q4 is sniffin the wrong glue.

forgive people for trusting what Nvidia told its investors....

[EnJoY]

forgive people for trusting what Nvidia told its investors....

If you can find where Nvidia stated to it's investors that it's next generation high-end GPU would be released in Q4 2007, I'll give you a cookie and send my mom over to give you a hug.

[dinos22]

you gotta laugh the people that jump on the FUD bandwagon

so you all know better do u
show us something constructive

[quadnad]

If you can find where Nvidia stated to it's investors that it's next generation high-end GPU would be released in Q4 2007, I'll give you a cookie and send my mom over to give you a hug.

During one of the webcasts they mentioned that their "1 TFlop beast" would be available by the end of this year. I'll admit that I'm far too lazy to listen through them again to point you to the specific one, but it certainly was mentioned. Have a look! Even BenchZowner and others have confirmed that we should look for it this November, but we'll see what happens.

[grimREEFER]

what, so they move it from late november to like february, even if its true, who cares, doesnt make too much of a difference

[quadnad]

what, so they move it from late november to like february, even if its true, who cares, doesnt make too much of a difference

Except for those waiting to build until November

[xenolith]

This makes perfect sense, despite FUD being a source.

Why in the world would Nvidia even entertain the idea of prematurely cannibalizing their high-end GPU in November? Besides no competition, they've barely been able to get the G80's out the door fast enough to satisfy demand.

Nvidia has had zero incentive to release a 9800/8900 before '08. And if I were an investor, I would seriously question Nvidia's motives if they did.

[Zytek_Fan]

This makes perfect sense, despite FUD being a source.

Why in the world would Nvidia even entertain the idea of prematurely cannibalizing their high-end GPU in November? Besides no competition, they've barely been able to get the G80's out the door fast enough to satisfy demand.

Nvidia has had zero incentive to release a 9800/8900 before '08. And if I were an investor, I would seriously question Nvidia's motives if they did.

It has been one year since G80, but like you said, no reason to rush it when they're dominating already.

[GoldenTiger]

God I hope these rumors of no high-end in Nov. are wrong... I sold my 8800GTS 640 to upgrade to a GTX for now, and planned on using the 3-month stepup thing to get a 9800/8900 once they came out in Nov. Figured I would cash out my 640 for a lot now, and enjoy a higher-end card with little cost to upgrade at that point. Hope I didn't make a mistake...

[HKPolice]

Makes perfect sense, nVidia has no reason to rush things until R680 comes out next year.

[Barys]

I`m confused with all these rumours

Earlier this month BenchZowner and Dynasty have said NVIDIA will release their High-End in November this year. SP number like G80/G80+ (128 or more) with 24xx mhz frequency, SINGLE chip (not 7950GX2 like), 384-bit memory bus etc. They have said they have this info from reliable source. OK - it`s very good if true and i don`t have any reason to don`t belive them yet but... But any others say this year will be only Mainstream GPU from NVIDIA

Then few days ago Fudzilla reported there will be no GF9800/8900 this year and NVIDIA push it to Q1 2008

Yesterday, on PCinlife Forum (Chinese), i found info that this November NVIDIA will only release G92 - mainstream GPU. Some sources say it is 96SP GPU and some it is 64 SP GPU.
There will be two G92 models but only one will be released in Nov this year and high-end part will be double G92.


I wonder why there is no info about NVIDIA High-end part if it really exists?
I really hope BenchZowner and Dynasty have said true and we will see G9x High-end part (with single GPU) this year.

[GoldenTiger]

I wonder why there is no info about NVIDIA High-end part if it really exists?
I really hope BenchZowner and Dynasty have said true and we will see G9x High-end part (with single GPU) this year.

Really, who knows at this point... I too hope their info was accurate. I don't see why nVidia would...

A) BS their investors about the ETA of a new part,

B) Break their "12-month" cycle due to a small market condition,

C) Break their roadmap they have planned years in advance for a small market condition (AMD/ATI's card not being up-to-par this time),

D) Miss out on the holiday season which means big cash, and...

E) Not increase their lead over AMD/ATI even further.

For those reasons, I think (and hope as well) that there will be a nice, shiny new high-end part come November.

[NH|Delph1]

During one of the webcasts they mentioned that their "1 TFlop beast" would be available by the end of this year. I'll admit that I'm far too lazy to listen through them again to point you to the specific one, but it certainly was mentioned. Have a look! Even BenchZowner and others have confirmed that we should look for it this November, but we'll see what happens.

The TFLOPS beast and the new high-end card isn't necessarily the same card.

//Andreas

[Barys]

The TFLOPS beast and the new high-end card isn't necessarily the same card.

//Andreas

What do you mean??

M. Hara said few months ago their new HIGH-END part will be 1Tflop beast. BenchZowner and Dynasty have confirmed it too and i hope it`s true.

[NH|Delph1]

What do you mean??

M. Hara said few months ago their new HIGH-END part will be 1Tflop beast. BenchZowner and Dynasty have confirmed it too and i hope it`s true.

I concur with both of them, I'm just saying there might be more cards, perhaps a dual-gpu one, coming.

//Andreas

[LordEC911]

I concur with both of them, I'm just saying there might be more cards, perhaps a dual-gpu one, coming.//Andreas

Which is exactly what BenchZowner didn't say...

[virtualrain]

If you can find where Nvidia stated to it's investors that it's next generation high-end GPU would be released in Q4 2007, I'll give you a cookie and send my mom over to give you a hug.

NVIDIA confirms Next-Gen close to 1TFlop in 4Q07
Wednesday 23rd May 2007, 12:12:43 PM, written by Arun


In recent analyst conferences that were publicly webcast on NVIDIA's website, Michael Hara (VP of Investor Relations) has claimed that their next-generation chip, also known as G92 in the rumour mill, will deliver close to one teraflop of performance. In a separate answer to an analyst's question, he also noted that they have no intention from diverging from the cycle they have adopted with the G80, which is to have the high-end part ready at the end of the year and release the lower-end derivatives in the spring.

(Full story here)

When's your mom coming by?

Of course at the time, NVidia (like everyone else) was expecting far more from ATI's high-end part which was still suffering from delays.

Now, as I said earlier in this thread, NVidia is in the fortunate position of not having to push themselves at all. They can (if they choose) extend the current gen product lifecycle at least another quarter which will net them higher margins with better yields on the silicon while still meeting demands with higher clocking parts. It's all good if you are an NVidia stockholder. It's also really not bad for consumers because we are getting cheaper higher performing cards. Keep in mind that when the 9800 does emerge, it won't be cheap. In the mean-time enjoy the performance/price ratio (and the overclocking potential) the new G92 will provide.

[Origin_Unknown]

*don's flame proof suit / sheild*

When FUD post's something about NVIDIA possibly delaying a chip then everyone goes "oh well nevermind, its ok"

but when FUD posts something about ATI everyone goes "OMGOMG teh end of ATI.. they are is SOOOO much trouble"





/Run's away

[NightCrawler™]

I just want to upgrade by the end of this year.... why are the manufacturers making it difficult for me....?

[Sentential]

Despite it being Fuad there is always some element of truth to what he says, wrong or not. My guess is that there is an issue with the GPU that nvidia hasnt let on about.

While the G80 is a mature chip its still *quite* large, so to say its margins are good I think is a bit premature. More than likely nVidia is making next-to-nothing on the G80 chips hence why there is no 8800GS.

Even if it is on a new die process, much like we saw with Winchester the yeilds can be much worse and they will still wind up with more money on a smaller process reguardless of current yields.

Since there are rumors floating around that the "G92" is a mid-range card that makes perfect sense to me. More than likely G92 will replace the entire 8800 series @ either 65nm or 55nm which would rake in a killing for nVidia much like the RV670 is going to do.

In the meantime they can work the kinks out of G8E and release it sometime in March and still catch little flakk from the press about any manufacturing issues they are having (which Im sure is occuring giving they want 1tflop on a 65/55nm chip)

I`m confused with all these rumours

Earlier this month BenchZowner and Dynasty have said NVIDIA will release their High-End in November this year. SP number like G80/G80+ (128 or more) with 24xx mhz frequency, SINGLE chip (not 7950GX2 like), 384-bit memory bus etc. They have said they have this info from reliable source. OK - it`s very good if true and i don`t have any reason to don`t belive them yet but... But any others say this year will be only Mainstream GPU from NVIDIA

Then few days ago Fudzilla reported there will be no GF9800/8900 this year and NVIDIA push it to Q1 2008

Yesterday, on PCinlife Forum (Chinese), i found info that this November NVIDIA will only release G92 - mainstream GPU. Some sources say it is 96SP GPU and some it is 64 SP GPU.
There will be two G92 models but only one will be released in Nov this year and high-end part will be double G92.


I wonder why there is no info about NVIDIA High-end part if it really exists?
I really hope BenchZowner and Dynasty have said true and we will see G9x High-end part (with single GPU) this year.

It is much like I stated previously. Given the logistics of what they want to do, versus the die-space available and what UMC / TSMC has available it is going to be very *very* hard to pull off a 1tflop gfx card of any type. The odds of there being significant issues with the complexity of the card on a new manufacturing process while keeping leakage down enough to get it PCI-E 2.0 certified will be one hell of a challenge.

People may not know this but part of why I belive a tflop card is unrealistic is based upon the weight maximum for any device that is PCI-E certified. The current 8800s are at that maximum as well as the R600. They physically cant make a hotter running card without risking their certification (which would be a death sentence for OEM sales)

With that in mind I believe fuad may infact be onto something and the closer we get to November the more evidence of this we will see.


EDIT: I dont belive the G90 has even been taped out yet has it?

[virtualrain]

Since there are rumors floating around that the "G92" is a mid-range card that makes perfect sense to me. More than likely G92 will replace the entire 8800 series @ either 65nm or 55nm which would rake in a killing for nVidia much like the RV670 is going to do.

That's exactly what I'm saying with the addition that by deferring the launch of a next gen part (either intentionally or not) they buy a quarter of such profit raking without buyers feeling the need to opt for the next gen part (which will invariably have lower margins due to poorer initial yields).

[virtualrain]

*don's flame proof suit / sheild*

When FUD post's something about NVIDIA possibly delaying a chip then everyone goes "oh well nevermind, its ok"

but when FUD posts something about ATI everyone goes "OMGOMG teh end of ATI.. they are is SOOOO much trouble"





/Run's away

It depends why... if it's for technical reasons, then the word "trouble" comes to mind, but if it's for business reasons, then it's a different story. Of course we don't really know if this is a business decision or not on NVidia's part (or if it's just more rubbish from FUD) but it's fun to debate never-the-less.

[Sentential]

It depends why... if it's for technical reasons, then the word "trouble" comes to mind, but if it's for business reasons, then it's a different story. Of course we don't really know if this is a business decision or not on NVidia's part (or if it's just more rubbish from FUD) but it's fun to debate never-the-less.

My point from the previous post is that this is more than likely fuad is right and that this delay because of technical issues, not a buisness related decision.

Technically on paper the G80 is 518gflops but in real-world benchmarks I've heard the number is really closer to ~430.

Even still in order for the G90 to be 1tflop it would require 55nm and the die itself would be as large or larger than current G80 chips (which are very large). Given that current G80s are at the maximum weight allowed for PCI-E 1.1 and 2.0 they cant add additional cooling options for the card, so it will be really tricky to pull this off without resorting to external power sources (the dreaded brick) or another dustbuster.

In order for the "G90" to work as they claim it does, it would require a flawless transition from 90nm to 55nm which I personally feel is not going to happen given that this would be nVidia's first 55nm card. Not to mention it has to keep the TDP at or below current G80s, which gives it very VERY little wiggle room for any sort of leakage.

[jokester]

As far as I was aware G90 was always planned for Feb 2008, it's only those that have been saying that G92 was the 9800 that was due in November.

B) Break their "12-month" cycle due to a small market condition,

Not sure where that comes from, in the recent times (past 3-4years) they've been on a close to 18month cycle.

Jokester

[zerazax]

The test-bed idea for the G92/G98 being on 65nm process is possible. Nvidia rarely if ever releases its high end before a lower-end / mainstream card is tested on that process first. Given that the 8400-8600's were 80nm as well as the G80, they could conceivably wait a month or two or more to see how the G92 / G98 mainstream cards fare under the new process before pushing forward.

And anyways, with the 2900Pro and the 2950's supposedly coming out soon, Nvidia knows it will still have to fight those cards at mainstream prices so their priority right now might be to get an affordable mainstream card to cash in on the holiday season. Let's not forget that the mainstream segment of cards is what makes the real money for card manufacturers. Also, OEM contracts are out there for a DX10 card that isn't a power or heat hog but performs a lot better than the current crap in the 8600/2600 lines.