MM U2-UFO and Horizon: The never ending 2 in 1 worklog (56k warning)

[justin_c]

some pics of the horizon please! and of the bigNG/miniNG; where did you get the flowmeter, the flowmeter isnt available at PPC.

miniNG, bigNG, sensorbus is what im planning for two loops, cpu, nb/sb/, gpu.

[ranker]

EK barbs are ok for sli? and for everything else? because i might just use black plastic barbs for inbetween the SLI cards, can you tell me how much space there is inbetween?

Depending on your motherboard, EK's regular barbs should be ok as long as you're not using two PCI express slots that are adjacent to one another. My EVGA680i's two main PCI-Express slots have 3 slots between them so I'm able to use the regular fittings. If you're using a motherboard which has a layout that is much tighter, you'll have to use the short "stubby" fittings offered by either EK or DD.

[ranker]

So, with the recent numbers measured by Swiftech in regards to the 8800GTX's head dump, I've been considering the removal of my 3rd loop and placing all of the components in the chipset/hd/ram loop into the GPU loop.

It will allow me to remove the overly large/bulky PA120.1 I had placed on the motherboard fan exhaust as it partially covers the 1/3 of the Fuzion.

Now, I'm wondering how much of a heat dump the EVGA 680i NB/SB, 2 Raptors, and 2 WD 500GB sata drives put out. I'm hoping my PA120.3 can handle all of this in addition to two overclocked 8800GTXs.

Does anyone know how much of a heat dump those components I just listed put out?

[shiznit93]

Hey Ranker, nice rig. I was wondering how that Tygon b-44-3 was working out for you, I was thinking of using it myself. In another post you mentioned that it hadn't started breaking down yet but that was a while ago. You are the only person I could find who's using that tubing, it would be awesome if you could keep us updated about its durability.

[ranker]

Hey Ranker, nice rig. I was wondering how that Tygon b-44-3 was working out for you, I was thinking of using it myself. In another post you mentioned that it hadn't started breaking down yet but that was a while ago. You are the only person I could find who's using that tubing, it would be awesome if you could keep us updated about its durability.

Thanks.

The tubing is working out well enough. It hasn't stained with the use of any of my dyes and it has not clouded yet either. It'd be the perfect tubing if only it was a little bit more pliable and have a better bend radius. I'm very happy with the tubing overall, much more so than I was with 2075.

[Anemone]

I got the 3/8 9/16 and the bend radius is good.

[ranker]

So anyway, I think it's time to get pictures up of the finished rig. I think I'm finally happy with the way things are after the 9th rebuild (yes.... 9). I've managed to use up over 160ft worth of B-44-3 Tygon due to the rebuilds. Yeesh.

Anyhow, before I post pics, I seem to have a weird issue I can't seem to explain . My latest rebuild involved a motherboard swap as my Southbridge was crapping out. Before then, my temps reported from speedfan for my CPU loop, a e6700 running at stock speeds, were around 32-33C with ambient temperature around 27-29C. Load would push it up to about 38-40C.

Anyhow, with the recent motherboard swap and BIOS update, my temps now range around 46-48C idle and 55C load. What's strange is that nothing else was changed as I simply kept the entire loops intact. Now, I did multiple remounts (3 different remounts) and my recorded temps were all within 1-2C in deviation from the first run.

I'm at a complete loss at why my temps reported from speedfan all shot up by 15C across the board. My only guess is 1) the sensor on the motherboard is off by a ridiculous margin or 2) the BIOS flash did something wonky that might result in Speedfan reporting higher temps (sorta like the reverse of how G0 stepping processors reported 15C under what their true temps were).

Any ideas on what may have occurred?

[Jedda]

Bios versions with my evga680i have had strong variations in reported temps. The evga forum reports that consistently. Everyones' temps go up or down with each new release. Also there's no board calibration.
So both of your causes are possible.
Wondered where you'd gone off to.
Pics? Yes please!

[ranker]

My temps have me perplexed and I'm unsure if the change from an RD-30 to a DDC-2 (for the sake of room) or if the higher ambient temps have wrecked my previously recorded temps.

My CPU is currently running stock speeds at stock voltage.

With an ambient temp of 35C as reported by multiple news/weather sources in the city of Huntington Beach, I'm getting a reported 54C for my motherboard temp reading (in case). My room is hot due to various servers/gaming rigs/folding machines. Here are my recorded temps:

@ idle recorded by TAT, verified by Everest/Speedfan = 50C
@ 100% load recorded by TAT, verified by Everest/Speedfan = 62C

Even my GPU temps have been bothering me. According to Everest, my 8800GTX's report high idle temps with:

GPU = 49C
GPU Diode - 57C
GPU Ambient = 46C

Now here's what bothers me. Do I go by the temperature reported by my motherboard to be the ambient temp? or do I go by the weather/news agencies?

If I go by the motherboard temps, then my temps seem a bit more reasonable considering the delta between ambient/idle and ambient/load don't seem too drastic. However, if I go by the city's temps, then my loops suck ass.

Does anyone else get a 12C delta between idle/load for CPU only loops? Most of my other machines normally get much smaller delta's. I've rebuilt the loop several times with over 2 dozen remounts and my delta doesn't change. I'm wondering if throwing my RD-30 back in will help improve temps a bit.

I guess the reason I'm at such a loss is because most of my other water builds have been simple with maybe 2 loops at most. However, this has been my most complicated build to date with over 3 radiators, 8 waterblocks, 3 pumps, 3 reservoirs, and a partridge in a pear tree. I'm wondering if there's any variable I'm overlooking or if all of these things together are synergistically raising temps across the board.

At the moment, I'm stumped and welcome any insight, consolation, flames, etc.

[IanY]

My temps have me perplexed.

With an ambient temp of 35C as reported by multiple news/weather sources in the city of Huntington Beach, I'm getting a reported 54C for my motherboard temp reading (in case). My room is hot due to various servers/gaming rigs/folding machines. Here are my recorded temps:

@ idle recorded by TAT, verified by Everest/Speedfan = 50C
@ 100% load recorded by TAT, verified by Everest/Speedfan = 62C

Hi,

Its been a while. Hope all is well.

Don't feel bad. Your system performance is still spot on. It really doesn't matter what the air temp is outside. Its the temp inside your case that matters. If your mobo temp is 54C and your TAT load temp is 62C, then you are in business.

I understand the concept of a hot room of computers. The only thing that will remedy that is focused air conditioning. You probably have central A/C in your California home. Over here, I have the computers close to a floor vent and yet have a portable room A/C going as well.

[ranker]

Hi,

Its been a while. Hope all is well.

Don't feel bad. Your system performance is still spot on. It really doesn't matter what the air temp is outside. Its the temp inside your case that matters. If your mobo temp is 54C and your TAT load temp is 62C, then you are in business.

I understand the concept of a hot room of computers. The only thing that will remedy that is focused air conditioning. You probably have central A/C in your California home. Over here, I have the computers close to a floor vent and yet have a portable room A/C going as well.

Hey Iany,

Yeah it's been awhile. I've been focusing on my studies/internship as of late again. This Horizon was supposed to be the grand finale of all water cooling setups for some time due to the lack of anything interesting developing within the WC scene atm.

Anyhow, I'm feeling more at ease with the reassurance. However, I'm possibly reconsidering my fan setup. As of right now the fans on the backside of my Horizon are the intake (2 on the bottom with the PA120.2, 1 on mobo tray), with the front fans (3 on PA120.3, 1 on PA120.1 in the 5.25" bay) and original top (2) being the exhaust. I wonder if cool air isn't being drawn in the backside. I might reverse the air flow to go front to back, but i'm unsure of whether if there would be any improvement and if it would be noticeable. It'd require a total breakdown of the entire computer once again.

We have central A/C and it's currently on at the moment. However, my computer room still feels like a sauna according to most people. I'm wondering if anyone else's overclocks/temps have been suffering with the 36C/100F weather we've been getting in Southern California.

[nealh]

Hi,

Its been a while. Hope all is well.

Don't feel bad. Your system performance is still spot on. It really doesn't matter what the air temp is outside. Its the temp inside your case that matters. If your mobo temp is 54C and your TAT load temp is 62C, then you are in business.

I understand the concept of a hot room of computers. The only thing that will remedy that is focused air conditioning. You probably have central A/C in your California home. Over here, I have the computers close to a floor vent and yet have a portable room A/C going as well.

I have a question..I hope this is not a hijack

How do we know the mobo temps

I have a Badaxe2...and use speedfan it reports an internal temp..is this mobo temp
if so my mobo temp right is 33C..cores are 33C and cpu temp is 37/38C

Now my PA160 loop typically had very similar temps vs my PA120.3 with the same components in the loop....e6600@3600 and x1900xt(my gpu temps went don 3-4C at idle on the new loop and load delta is 7c vs 12-13C on PA160)

[IanY]

Anyhow, I'm feeling more at ease with the reassurance. However, I'm possibly reconsidering my fan setup. As of right now the fans on the backside of my Horizon are the intake (2 on the bottom with the PA120.2, 1 on mobo tray), with the front fans (3 on PA120.3, 1 on PA120.1 in the 5.25" bay) and original top (2) being the exhaust. I wonder if cool air isn't being drawn in the backside. I might reverse the air flow to go front to back, but i'm unsure of whether if there would be any improvement and if it would be noticeable. It'd require a total breakdown of the entire computer once again.

ranker,

I have generally been busy and have laid off the computers for a bit. Don't feel bad. I back off on basically all my overclocks, even as my summer weather here gets only into the low 90s/high 80s.

My opinion is that its not worth breaking down your rig right now. I am sure you have a bunch of higher priorities. The fundamental problem of room heat is not solved by simple reversal of fans, and probably will not be solved without running direct full blast a/c wind.

[ranker]

I have a question..I hope this is not a hijack

How do we know the mobo temps

I have a Badaxe2...and use speedfan it reports an internal temp..is this mobo temp
if so my mobo temp right is 33C..cores are 33C and cpu temp is 37/38C

Now my PA160 loop typically had very similar temps vs my PA120.3 with the same components in the loop....e6600@3600 and x1900xt(my gpu temps went don 3-4C at idle on the new loop and load delta is 7c vs 12-13C on PA160)

Speedfan will grab your temps from your motherboard's sensors. However, each motherboard is different and needs to be configured differently. I'd consult the intel forums to see how one would set it up. In speedfan, my EVGA board displays the motherboard's/case temp as represented by the AUX sensor. However, other machines would have it correspond to the SB.

The most accurate and complete program to view all of the sensors on your computer would be Everest. Unfortunately for me, my Mcubed BigNG won't take input from Everest so I've been forced to use speedfan.

My delta isn't too bad but I'm starting to miss the 2C smaller delta I had in my CPU loop when I was running an RD-30.

ranker,

I have generally been busy and have laid off the computers for a bit. Don't feel bad. I back off on basically all my overclocks, even as my summer weather here gets only into the low 90s/high 80s.

My opinion is that its not worth breaking down your rig right now. I am sure you have a bunch of higher priorities. The fundamental problem of room heat is not solved by simple reversal of fans, and probably will not be solved without running direct full blast a/c wind.

I've been trying my best to ignore it until summer dies down so that I can objectively gauge my machines performance, but my OCD prevents me from just "letting it go". I'm obsessed with performance and this is my crowning achievement. But anyhow, you're probably right. I should get back to focusing on my law studies and my internships.

PS. Clinton 08!

[migueld]

Hey Ranker, have you tried getting the ambient temp using one of the digital sensors on your bigNG? I have one of those outside my tower on a neutral spot, and I think that'd be the best way to read ambient.

Getting ambient temps from weather/news is useless IMO because it may have nothing to do with your particular room. PC rooms can be saunas with poor AC, or arctics with good ACs. So your ambient will vary considerably vs outdoor ambient.

What you mentioned about rad placement and cold air intake may be very important as well. Cold air on intake will make a huge difference and I think the difference could be exponential. I think that the deltas between idle/load will be different at low ambient vs high ambient temps. If you can try getting your room to good ambient temps and your rads with good cold intake that might solve your issue.

[IanY]

I should get back to focusing on my law studies and my internships.

PS. Clinton 08!

Nothing tops hitting the books. BTW, I've been requested to be part of Rudy's campaign.. lol

[Grinch]

Nothing tops hitting the books. BTW, I've been requested to be part of Rudy's campaign.. lol

hope he get's in there...

[IanY]

I've been trying my best to ignore it until summer dies down so that I can objectively gauge my machines performance, but my OCD prevents me from just "letting it go". I'm obsessed with performance and this is my crowning achievement.

ranker,

There is something I found out two weeks ago, and you may want to give this a try. No guarantees, but it worked well for me.

I was frustrated with the high mobo temps, even though I'm watercooling the full nine yards. Then I thought things through. Its not just the NB and mosfets that matter. The bottom line is that I rigged two Zalman fan brackets and somehow squeezed in two Antec SpotCools. Doesn't sound like much.. and it sure is an ugly mess.. but it worked miracles. The resulting effect was a 10C drop in the reported mobo temps. And what do you know.. I gained about 30 mHz in overclocking headroom.

Summary.. it sounds stupid, but fan cooling the waterblocks and mobo electronics helps considerably with stability.

BTW, the Antec SpotCools on the low setting put out twice the fan flow than the Corsair ram fans.. and are quieter too. On paper, the specs are very wimpy.. but that stuff works. Its not good if you want to show off your PC though.. its ugly.

[IanY]

hope he get's in there...

Hey.. I was part of the last two winning campaigns as well lol

[Waterlogged]

ranker,

There is something I found out two weeks ago, and you may want to give this a try. No guarantees, but it worked well for me.

I was frustrated with the high mobo temps, even though I'm watercooling the full nine yards. Then I thought things through. Its not just the NB and mosfets that matter. The bottom line is that I rigged two Zalman fan brackets and somehow squeezed in two Antec SpotCools. Doesn't sound like much.. and it sure is an ugly mess.. but it worked miracles. The resulting effect was a 10C drop in the reported mobo temps. And what do you know.. I gained about 30 mHz in overclocking headroom.

Summary.. it sounds stupid, but fan cooling the waterblocks and mobo electronics helps considerably with stability.

BTW, the Antec SpotCools on the low setting put out twice the fan flow than the Corsair ram fans.. and are quieter too. On paper, the specs are very wimpy.. but that stuff works. Its not good if you want to show off your PC though.. its ugly.

This is only common sense, those aren't the only things on the MoBo making heat. I had to explain this fact many times to the n00bs over at DD forums who wanted to go with only the rad fans. Every dang chip on the MoBo is making heat of some kind. Little or no air running over them and the MoBo can get really cranky.

Hey.. I was part of the last two winning campaigns as well lol

So your responsible for this mess we're in!!

Ron Paul FTW!

[IanY]

So your responsible for this mess we're in!!

Ron Paul FTW!

Wanna see the signed picture autograph?

[ranker]

Hey Ranker, have you tried getting the ambient temp using one of the digital sensors on your bigNG? I have one of those outside my tower on a neutral spot, and I think that'd be the best way to read ambient.

Getting ambient temps from weather/news is useless IMO because it may have nothing to do with your particular room. PC rooms can be saunas with poor AC, or arctics with good ACs. So your ambient will vary considerably vs outdoor ambient.

What you mentioned about rad placement and cold air intake may be very important as well. Cold air on intake will make a huge difference and I think the difference could be exponential. I think that the deltas between idle/load will be different at low ambient vs high ambient temps. If you can try getting your room to good ambient temps and your rads with good cold intake that might solve your issue.

Thanks for the tip. I'll probably place one of the digital sensors in a neutral location to get a more accurate reading of ambient temps inside the case. As of right now I'm relying soley on the motherboard sensor to tell me what my ambient temps are.

The only reason why I mentioned the news/weather ambient temps is because my motherboard reports temps even higher than both my Tcase and my Tjunction! Now, I did some research and some mentioned that Foxconn's (they manufacture 75% of all Nvidia boards such as EVGA's, XFX's, etc) TIM used for the mosfets might not make contact completely with the heatsink resulting in higher motherboard temps. I went ahead and purchased the Alphacool regular universal MOSFET waterblock and a few extra mosfet heatsinks. I hope this helps because my motherboard temps a strangely high. We'll see if its accurate by using the BigNG's digital sensor.

Another problem is that my Tcase (CPU) and Tjunction (Core 1, Core 2) temps are almost the same. In all my other builds, the reported Tjunction temps were always 15C higher than the Tcase. I'm wondering why on this specific motherboard, I don't see this happening. I double checked my other water builds in my house, even another 680i build and everyone of them reported core temps to be about 12-18C higher than the CPU temps. I'm stumped on how come this isn't the case with my current machine.

Nothing tops hitting the books. BTW, I've been requested to be part of Rudy's campaign.. lol

ranker,

There is something I found out two weeks ago, and you may want to give this a try. No guarantees, but it worked well for me.

I was frustrated with the high mobo temps, even though I'm watercooling the full nine yards. Then I thought things through. Its not just the NB and mosfets that matter. The bottom line is that I rigged two Zalman fan brackets and somehow squeezed in two Antec SpotCools. Doesn't sound like much.. and it sure is an ugly mess.. but it worked miracles. The resulting effect was a 10C drop in the reported mobo temps. And what do you know.. I gained about 30 mHz in overclocking headroom.

Summary.. it sounds stupid, but fan cooling the waterblocks and mobo electronics helps considerably with stability.

BTW, the Antec SpotCools on the low setting put out twice the fan flow than the Corsair ram fans.. and are quieter too. On paper, the specs are very wimpy.. but that stuff works. Its not good if you want to show off your PC though.. its ugly.

I have some extra coolspots lying around that I'll try utilizing. However, I think I'm going to WC the mosfets with the Alphacool waterblock. I just hope it fits. I found that my motherboard sensor reports about a 42C boot up temp and then slowly climbs its way up to about 52C after about 15 minutes of being on. I'm not sure how to explain this. My associates are telling me its a combination of the high voltage Dominator Ram sticks, 2 8800GTX furnaces, 4 hard drives putting out heat and even my new Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 7.1 sound card (although I've never heard of a sound card putting out heat!)

This is only common sense, those aren't the only things on the MoBo making heat. I had to explain this fact many times to the n00bs over at DD forums who wanted to go with only the rad fans. Every dang chip on the MoBo is making heat of some kind. Little or no air running over them and the MoBo can get really cranky.


So your responsible for this mess we're in!!

Ron Paul FTW!

As of right now I have a corsair dominator fan, and 3 case fans directed towards cooling the motherboard without any radiators attached to it. My Horizon came with an original top that has 2 fans mounted at the top to vent out all hot air. It also has a motherboard try fan to vent it out horizontally as well. I'm pretty sure I have decent air flow with over 8 120mm case fans. The only thing I'm worried about is if its in the optimal configuration.

[Waterlogged]

Sound like that ought to be more than enough. How many fans are intake and how many exhaust in the case all together? Any pics we could study a bit?

Wanna see the signed picture autograph?

Ah, NO! We see enough of that stammering buffoon on the telly.

[ranker]

Sound like that ought to be more than enough. How many fans are intake and how many exhaust in the case all together? Any pics we could study a bit?




Ah, NO! We see enough of that stammering buffoon on the telly.

Yeah I'll try to get pics up soon. I'm the sort of guy who would rather post pics of an end result rather than a work in progress.

Right now I have 3 intake and 6 exhaust. I have the Horizon. I'm using the front side and top panel as my exhaust. One of my two 5.25" bays has been converted into a radiator mount with a 120mm fan. So that's 4 exhaust fans in the front. There are two 120mm fans attached to the "Original Top" on the top panel that are also set for exhaust. There are two 120mm fans in the back where the PA120.2 is for intake and another 120mm fan on the motherboard tray for intake. Both are in the back.

My plan of action includes:

1) breaking down the entire computer ....again and recording another 15ft of Tygon B-44-3

2) reversing the airflow: The fans on the front panel will be set towards intake, and the fans on the back panel will be set for exhaust. I will keep the 2 fans up top as exhaust. This will result in 4 intake, and 5 exhaust, hopefully balancing airflow a bit.

3) breaking apart my Fuzion to see if there's any clogs or something that might affect performance.

4) purchasing a new set of Fuzion mounting screws as I'm worried that my constant remounts has damaged/bent the screws in an awkward manner that makes it increasingly difficult to screw tight.

5) removing the main mosfet heatsink and replacing it with an Alphacool Heattrap RegCooler Universal G1/4: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=21796

I'll be using either MX-2 or Chomerics Thermattach® T412 Conductive Tape for it and placing an analogue temp gauge under the waterblock. Not sure which one would be better for this. Any suggestions?

6) I'll be replacing the secondary mosfet heat sink with individual mosfet heat sinks: Microcool Passive Heatsink MOSFET Chipsink

7) I'll be redo'ing all of my waterblocks with X23 instead of MX-2 (ugh, expensive).

8) Figuring out why my BigNG-Sensorbus won't read temps from my 6 water temp probes: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=20435

Anyone have any idea why it'd stop working all of a sudden? Would the location be a problem? I currently have it screwed into my Alphacool DDC top in the horizontal inlet.

9) Rearrange all of my temp probes:

Analogue:
1) CPU
2) NB
3) SB
4) Mosfet
5) GPU 1
6) WD500 HD
7) Raptor HD
8-10) Alphacool water temp probes attached to Alphacool DDC top.

Digital:
1) Case (any suggestions on where would provide the best objective case/ambient temps?)
2) CPU waterblock
3) NB waterblock
4) SB waterblock
5) Mosfet waterblock
6-7) GPU waterblock (any ideas where best location would be? I can't find a good "solid" place on my EK block)
8) RAM

[Waterlogged]

I feel the same way about posting pics of my rigs before their done so I know how you feel.

The way you describe the fan layout kind of sounds to me like the RAM cooler is the only thing moving air on/over the board, and it might be directional at that. Flipping a fan or two up front might help or if you could, make up something for the back MoBo 120 that forces the air down sort of like this old Tt duct. http://www.directron.com/a1442.html What ever you do, try to keep negative pressure in the case (I'm sure I really didn't have to say that but, WTH, it couldn't hurt to remind you ).

Those Microcool heatsinks stick pretty well if you heat up the tape real good. I've been able to lift a mATX MoBo w/Lian-Li mATX tray by them, that's how well they'll stick. Oh yeah, they work pretty decent as well

Rest of your plan looks like pretty solid trouble shooting. GL, I have a feeling you may need it.