K10 Scores starting to surface

[Mikesta]

WOW K10 has failed.

I thought that with all the Microarchitecture enhancements that it would have an advantage over 65nm Core2's and be at least even with the 45nm ones.

How wrong many of us were!

[generics_user]

It shows "Processor #8"...

i was talking about the SPI screen which shows 4 cores and 4 threads but greyed out the processor so not the same system

[n91htmare]

if that CPU exists, it's certainly not an ES, but does AMD give nonES's to
people? never heard of this.

smells fishy
and the performance gains are very low compared to what people having
this CPU in hands said.

coolaler has MANY connections. Chances are it's a retail version.

[zaarath]

coolaler has MANY connections. Chances are it's a retail version.

Corrrection: "People on Coolaler's site" have MANY connections.

[Slay0r]

i was talking about the SPI screen which shows 4 cores and 4 threads but greyed out the processor so not the same system

Different version of cpu-z .

[duploxxx]

If anything, the score is going to be higher on x64 os .

maybe, maybe not. remember 64bit disables the inteligent caching from the core architecture

if that CPU exists, it's certainly not an ES, but does AMD give nonES's to
people? never heard of this.

smells fishy
and the performance gains are very low compared to what people having
this CPU in hands said.

this is no longer an ES those were shipped with 1.6-1.8GHZ speed. It is a DVT or one of the "early birds" as some OEM like to call these

and for the performance... wprime/pi etc says nothing to real performance.
on INT it's not faster than micro on FPU it's a huge difference same with memory bandwith, power consumption is to early to tell.

cpu-z, doesnt 1.40.5 show the voltage on K10 CPUs?

it look likes cpu-z is able to read vcore of the phenom, but it can't on barcelona

WOW K10 has failed.

I thought that with all the Microarchitecture enhancements that it would have an advantage over 65nm Core2's and be at least even with the 45nm ones.

How wrong many of us were!

funny how people think that 45nm penryn will be so much better.

I'll give some hint's:
yes it will have advantages because of the higher speed, don't expect miracles, they already had troubles fitting 3.16ghz wolfdale in the 120W tdp package
if the program has advantages due to additional cache yes it will benefit
if it supports sse4 yes it gives huge performance increase.
all the rest clock/clock it is the same performance

[alayashu]

cpu-z, doesnt 1.40.5 show the voltage on K10 CPUs?

[zaarath]

At higher frequencies it can only be slower(clock/clock) due to less memory bandwidth per MHz.

It is not up to the cache. Run a SPi test on a 2GHz Core2 with 512kB L2 and you'll get a very similar score to the one of the 4MB L2 Core2. Also the K10 has 2MB L3 dedicated to only one core when needed and two independent integrated memory controllers providing twice the memory bandwidth of Core2.

Actually 2MB C2D already has 10% deficit in Spi against 4MB, 512kb L2 Celeron 4xx is even worse. SPI is very cache sensitive.

Also, I don't think you can get 2X memory bandwidth against core2 in a single threaded application, more like 1.2X

[savantu]

WOW K10 has failed.

I thought that with all the Microarchitecture enhancements that it would have an advantage over 65nm Core2's and be at least even with the 45nm ones.

How wrong many of us were!

That should have been obvious from 5 reasons :

-constant delays
-far slower speed than expected
-changing tune from "Intel killer" to "perf/w over current Opteron" in AMD's PR
-AMD stressing Spec_rate benchmarks ; that was a clear indication that single threaded performance sucks
-early benchmark figures ( some from AMD itself )

The whole thing boils down to : K10 has nothing over Core to suggest it will have better IPC; it is simply a K8 upped to Core-like level.I say Core-like because IMO Intel still has a few advantages such as better prefetch and vastly better L2s.

Cinebench is a test where K8 kept up with Core , even exceeded it clock/clock.From these results , it is obvious that K10 is slower clock/clock than K8 at least for this benchmark.I attribute this to the cache hierarchy , the cpu simply needs to search in more places for data and this takes time.

[Movieman]

I would guess it's an ES as AMD does give them out, just sparingly..
I'm not usually surprised, most things in this game are somewhat predictable.
I can't beleive that AMD would release a chip with lesser capibilities than the current Intel offering KNOWING that Intel has even faster waiting in the wings with Penryn. After almost 40 years in the business world that flyies in the face of logic.
SO if that is wrong, what are the alternatives?
AMD is sandbagging Intel to get Intel to relax and not release Penryn a weel before AMD releases these?
That is sound business logic and It wouldn't surprise me.
That is the only option that makes sense to me.
They control their chips much better than Intel does in terms of who gets ES and might they have intentionally sent out "slow" cpu's?
Sound loudricous? Yes, but when the obvious fails then you look at the not so obvious..

[savantu]

maybe, maybe not. remember 64bit disables the inteligent caching from the core architecture

...

Huh ?!

[Slay0r]

At higher frequencies it can only be slower(clock/clock) due to less memory bandwidth per MHz.

How do you work this out ? bandwidth is something Amd never lacked, on the other hand it's also something that had minimal influence on the overall performance . I understand the scaling is not going to be linear, but we can't know for sure that it's going to be slower c4c untill it gets tested.

It is not up to the cache. Run a SPi test on a 2GHz Core2 with 512kB L2 and you'll get a very similar score to the one of the 4MB L2 Core2. Also the K10 has 2MB L3 which are being used and dedicated to only one core when needed and two independent integrated memory controllers providing twice the memory bandwidth of Core2.

It's not entirely up to the cache, on that I would agree . That said, the newer celerons already showed that fewer cache handicappes the performance on core2s (in superpi at least), the scores are not very similar at all .

[savantu]

I would guess it's an ES as AMD does give them out, just sparingly..
I'm not usually surprised, most things in this game are somewhat predictable.
I can't beleive that AMD would release a chip with lesser capibilities than the current Intel offering KNOWING that Intel has even faster waiting in the wings with Penryn. After almost 40 years in the business world that flyies in the face of logic.
SO if that is wrong, what are the alternatives?
AMD is sandbagging Intel to get Intel to relax and not release Penryn a weel before AMD releases these?
That is sound business logic and It wouldn't surprise me.
That is the only option that makes sense to me.
They control their chips much better than Intel does in terms of who gets ES and might they have intentionally sent out "slow" cpu's?
Sound loudricous? Yes, but when the obvious fails then you look at the not so obvious..

I think you are giving AMD too much credit ; aren't they allowed to fail after all ?

[n91htmare]

I would guess it's an ES as AMD does give them out, just sparingly..
I'm not usually surprised, most things in this game are somewhat predictable.
I can't beleive that AMD would release a chip with lesser capibilities than the current Intel offering KNOWING that Intel has even faster waiting in the wings with Penryn. After almost 40 years in the business world that flyies in the face of logic.
SO if that is wrong, what are the alternatives?
AMD is sandbagging Intel to get Intel to relax and not release Penryn a weel before AMD releases these?
That is sound business logic and It wouldn't surprise me.
That is the only option that makes sense to me.
They control their chips much better than Intel does in terms of who gets ES and might they have intentionally sent out "slow" cpu's?
Sound loudricous? Yes, but when the obvious fails then you look at the not so obvious..

you crazy silly man.....get some sleep

[Hornet331]

hmm doesnt look that good for barcelone.

But ill wait till more benches pop up.

[nn_step]

I think you are giving AMD too much credit ; aren't they allowed to fail after all ?

If we lose AMD, then we will all be ed

you crazy silly man.....get some sleep

I believe you mean reasonable man

[Movieman]

I think you are giving AMD too much credit ; aren't they allowed to fail after all ?

At this level of business you've got the company bet on it..
The answer is no, your not allowed to fail and if I had $$ I'd buy AMD stock tomorrow!

you crazy silly man.....get some sleep

We will see how nuts I am..

Good night Gentlemen..,Glad to help out! Sleep calls.

[Nedjo]

I think you are giving AMD too much credit

But we have you who doesn't have single post on this forum for giving AMD and those benches at least little benefit of doubt!

And just like nice Intel fan boy Mikesta you go ahead giving us ultimate sentence for K10: failed

way to go Sav

[Movieman]

Gentlemen: I can see whats about to happen and I'll ask EVERYONE to think before they type.
No flaming please..No Gloating, tonight only raises questions, it provides no difinitive answers..
Please, remember, here at Xs, friends first please.
The last thing I want to do tonight is play Mod and ban people so please respect each other and each others views..
Thank you and goodnight..
(Yes, I get all these posts into my email)

[savantu]

But we have you who doesn't have single post on this forum for giving AMD and those benches at least little benefit of doubt!

And just like nice Intel fan boy Mikesta you go ahead giving us ultimate sentence for K10: failed

way to go Sav

I accept the reality of cold facts instead of replacing it with one of my own where K10 is the best thing since sliced bread...

[nn_step]

I accept the reality of cold facts instead of replacing it with one of my own where K10 is the best thing since sliced bread...

Oh yes, because God knows a single post is 100% accurate in reflecting any possible future for a processor

[savantu]

If we lose AMD, then we will all be ed

I doubt it ; Intel lost a lot of its power over the industry ; SW is becoming platform agnostic and the cellphone will ultimately replace the PC...

AMD will fail ; spending all their money on ATI instead of FABs was a turning point.

Secondly SOI is running out of steam ; AMD 65nm problems are part of ti and things will get far worse on 45nm.

I believe you mean reasonable man

He is reasonable when he tries to replace facts ( even deny his own tests ) with a conspiracy theory ? That's a new one.

Oh yes, because God knows a single post is 100% accurate in reflecting any possible future for a processor

So independent Cinebech , wPrime , SuperPI , Fritz , Pov-ray scores together with AMD released Cinebench scores ( which support the independent ones ) all point to K10 being slower clock/clock than Core.

I smell spring 06 Conroe-denial-syndrome once again...

[nn_step]

I doubt it ; Intel lost a lot of its power over the industry ; SW is becoming platform agnostic and the cellphone will ultimately replace the PC...

AMD will fail ; spending all their money on ATI instead of FABs was a turning point.

Secondly SOI is running out of steam ; AMD 65nm problems are part of ti and things will get far worse on 45nm.


He is reasonable when he tries to replace facts ( even deny his own tests ) with a conspiracy theory ? That's a new one.

well until I can play a DX11 game on my Cellphone

[RaZz!]

I doubt it ; Intel lost a lot of its power over the industry ; SW is becoming platform agnostic and the cellphone will ultimately replace the PC..[...]

lmao!

[Slay0r]

I doubt it ; Intel lost a lot of its power over the industry ; SW is becoming platform agnostic and the cellphone will ultimately replace the PC...

AMD will fail ; spending all their money on ATI instead of FABs was a turning point.

Secondly SOI is running out of steam ; AMD 65nm problems are part of ti and things will get far worse on 45nm.




He is reasonable when he tries to replace facts ( even deny his own tests ) with a conspiracy theory ? That's a new one.

You on the other hand were graced with foresight on birth ?

How about we tone it down a tad and wait for more results to come in ? you know, cinebench/superprime/superpi produce really fashionable numbers, ay . But what do they mean in "real world" (if it even has a meaning of its own) performance ? not a great deal .

If amd has failed, then so be it . "Better luck next time" .