Official AMD Barcelona Thread

[DeathReborn]

There's no such group as "Server enthusiasts" and "with absolutely unlimited budgets". Only you could come up with something so far fetched but why am I not surprised? Again, if these types of users from your imagination were a force to be reckoned' with, there would be many sites dedicated to them. I'm sure these sites would be at least as popular as this one. Come on, give us a link and not .gov ????????

Unlimited, no, but have you ever heard the phrase "if you have to ask the price then you can't afford it"? There are many comapnies who will pay tens if not hundreds of times more for a product that us "poor" people pay for it.

Governments, large corporations & educational establishments will pay the equivalent of $1000 per CPU for what would cost you in the shops $200. There's massive profits to be had if you go for the right segment with the right marketing.

nn_step uses terms you SHOULD be able to comprehend to explain a rather large & expensive section of the PC industry.

Quick question, do you own Intel stock or just have a thing about bashing AMD or their supporters? Not a dig at you personally, just wondering why you can't say nice about AMD.

[Zytek_Fan]

Unlimited, no, but have you ever heard the phrase "if you have to ask the price then you can't afford it"? There are many comapnies who will pay tens if not hundreds of times more for a product that us "poor" people pay for it.

Governments, large corporations & educational establishments will pay the equivalent of $1000 per CPU for what would cost you in the shops $200. There's massive profits to be had if you go for the right segment with the right marketing.

nn_step uses terms you SHOULD be able to comprehend to explain a rather large & expensive section of the PC industry.

Quick question, do you own Intel stock or just have a thing about bashing AMD or their supporters? Not a dig at you personally, just wondering why you can't say nice about AMD.

Google is an excellent example. They're one of the biggest customers of server CPUs and will pay the $ to have the best


When will the AMD bashing end?

[dexman]

^^it seems it became a sport here to bash amd for whatever reason. too many biased folks on both sides if you ask me, so it never ends unless people get over their fanboyism, stocks or even payrolls.

[Jacky]

didn't see anyone post these ones from Fuad. If true, looks like AMD may actually have some good news to compete with although they are ultra expensive to make.

3 to 4 % of Barcelona can go over 2.6 GHz
K10 at the corner of a wafer doomed to 2 GHz

by the way, Where the crap is the corner of a circle?

I don't know what I should think about "3-4% of Barc can go over 2.6GHz" that's like saying 40% (or any other random number...) of the core 2 based xeons can go over 3,33GHz, but what about the TDP, is it reasonable? I don't believe AMD/Intel would sell 150W chips...

"The second trouble is that not all the chips from wafer works and we know that AMD is currently not happy with yields of the chips and will likely need another revision and it can pray that everything including clocks, leakage and speed is going to be fine. Otherwise it won't be pretty."

I thought it's not the yields? Someone's definitely lying here...

Krishna Shankar - JMP Securities

I just wanted to get a sense for [Barcelona] -- it sounds like there was some delay here and I wanted to get a sense for the challenges and how you plan to scale up the performance to address the various performance segments in the market.

Dirk R. Meyer

I better understand, thank you. First of all, we’re very happy with our 65-nanometer yields across all products, including Barcelona, so no issue there. The fact of the matter, Barcelona, while being an absolutely great product, is complicated and it’s taking a little bit more design work than we anticipated getting the final rim in place.

AMD earnings call

sorry for bashing the inq, but it's great fun, they are so clueless... Maybe they get some inside information, but I don't believe, that they *even understand what they are told*

They do [care about enthusiasts] but a different class of enthusiasts.
Most notably the Server enthusiasts with high end only demands with absolutely unlimited budgets

If they had unlimited budgets they'd buy xeons, because they couldn't care less about the fb-dimm power consumption! Oh, no, tbh they'd buy power6/bluegene-P systems depending on the workload.
So no unlimited budgets.. it's still about power draw, were the AMD platform is quite competetive even w/o Barcelona (just imagine what Barc will do on that front..)

edit: lol, I confused the inq and fudzilla.. (anyway fudzilla is even worse *g*)

[Lightman]

I don't know what I should think about "3-4% of Barc can go over 2.6GHz" that's like saying 40% (or any other random number...) of the core 2 based xeons can go over 3,33GHz, but what about the TDP, is it reasonable? I don't believe AMD/Intel would sell 150W chips...

I thought it's not the yields? Someone's definitely lying here...


AMD earnings call

sorry for bashing the inq, but it's great fun, they are so clueless... Maybe they get some inside information, but I don't believe, that they *even understand what they are told*


If they had unlimited budgets they'd buy xeons, because they couldn't care less about the fb-dimm power consumption! Oh, no, tbh they'd buy power6/bluegene-P systems depending on the workload.
So no unlimited budgets.. it's still about power draw, were the AMD platform is quite competetive even w/o Barcelona (just imagine what Barc will do on that front..)

I think 3-4%@2.6GHz under 120W. This is only logical conclusion from what Fudzilla is saying...

Are you sure about the inq par of your post??? (hint: Fudzilla )

[red]

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2161022,00.asp
*"All told, Allen expects about 50 platforms to be designed using Barcelona."
*"It has great power efficiency and performance per watt,"
*"For example, the new Xeon 7300 quad-core processors will have up to 2.25 [times] performance-per-watt improvement over our current products as they bring the energy-efficient performance of the Core microarchitecture [to servers with four or more sockets]."
*David Driggers, chief technology officer of Verari Systems, a blade server vendor based in San Diego, offered a mixed review of Barcelona's performance so far. He said that while Barcelona's four cores each allow four calculations per clock cycle, offering better performance in that respect, the 2GHz clock speed is about 20 percent slower than he expected.
*Driggers is also concerned that AMD has been stingy with releasing the various Barcelona models so that his company can test the processor with a combination of different customer applications. By contrast, Driggers said he has already received five different processor models for Intel's Caneland platform.
*Driggers said, adding that he believes that since Barcelona can plug into existing dual-core sockets, the company might hold off releasing the chip for as long as possible.

[BrowncoatGR]

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2161022,00.asp

*"For example, the new Xeon 7300 quad-core processors will have up to 2.25 [times] performance-per-watt improvement over our current products as they bring the energy-efficient performance of the Core microarchitecture [to servers with four or more sockets]."
*David Driggers, chief technology officer of Verari Systems, a blade server vendor based in San Diego, offered a mixed review of Barcelona's performance so far. He said that while Barcelona's four cores each allow four calculations per clock cycle, offering better performance in that respect, the 2GHz clock speed is about 20 percent slower than he expected.
*Driggers is also concerned that AMD has been stingy with releasing the various Barcelona models so that his company can test the processor with a combination of different customer applications. By contrast, Driggers said he has already received five different processor models for Intel's Caneland platform.
*Driggers said, adding that he believes that since Barcelona can plug into existing dual-core sockets, the company might hold off releasing the chip for as long as possible.

This Driggers guy seems like an Intel mouthpiece to me.

[Donnie27]

Unlimited, no, but have you ever heard the phrase "if you have to ask the price then you can't afford it"? There are many comapnies who will pay tens if not hundreds of times more for a product that us "poor" people pay for it.

Governments, large corporations & educational establishments will pay the equivalent of $1000 per CPU for what would cost you in the shops $200. There's massive profits to be had if you go for the right segment with the right marketing.

nn_step uses terms you SHOULD be able to comprehend to explain a rather large & expensive section of the PC industry.

Quick question, do you own Intel stock or just have a thing about bashing AMD or their supporters? Not a dig at you personally, just wondering why you can't say nice about AMD.

Please note*? He didn't say anything about Companies or the Government until I asked for links. He said and I asked about "Server enthusiasts". I didn't make a universal statement, I asked about this and only this imaginary group of enthusiasts.

IT people who buy High-end don't play the role of Fan Boi for NO ONE. Many used IBM, Sun and Intel. When the K8 took the market by storm they moved to them with the quickness never seen before. All of those movies rendered by Opterons are proof. Also proof that Intel is not locking AMD out of anything=P When AMD has something, these folks will test and then adopt it as they see fit.

No, I don't own Intel stock and I speak with my wallet. I have 4 computer up and running my home. 2 are AMD and 2 are Intel based. I like all 4 of my computers, sorry to disappoint you. If Phenom kicks ass and I'll be in line to BUY one. Unlike others, I don't see myself as an AMD PR person.

Now, since you're in an inquiring mode, ask nn why he has nothing nice to say about Intel in 16K posts?

[Donnie27]

Google is an excellent example. They're one of the biggest customers of server CPUs and will pay the $ to have the best

When will the AMD bashing end?

Before the first Conroe tests, many wondered the same thing about the Intel Bashing I knew it had went on here wayyyyy longer than the one year Conroe been on the market.

[Zytek_Fan]

If they had unlimited budgets they'd buy xeons, because they couldn't care less about the fb-dimm power consumption! Oh, no, tbh they'd buy power6/bluegene-P systems depending on the workload.
So no unlimited budgets.. it's still about power draw, were the AMD platform is quite competetive even w/o Barcelona (just imagine what Barc will do on that front..)

Well, a lot of super computer owners are waiting for their Barcelonas, since the majority of super computers run Opteron CPUs.

AMD Admits: AMD Phenom Comes Really Late.
Initial Volumes of AMD Phenom Will Not Be Substantial

During the most recent teleconference with analysts Advanced Micro Devices confirmed the earlier rumours that the roll-out of its new micro-architecture-based enthusiast-class processors will mostly occur next year and not a lot of highly-anticipated chips will be available in 2007. While the company mainly talks about revenue ramp of its products, such claims also usually describe unit volume ramp.

“We’ll be shipping the Phenom variance of the new product in Q4 but frankly, that’s going to be late enough in Q4 that while there’ll be some contribution to the bottom line, it won’t be substantial,” said Dirk Meyer, AMD’s chief operating officer and president.

Earlier it was reported that the chipmaker only plans to unveil its AMD Phenom FX-80 processor, which is designed for single-processor configurations, in November or December this year, whereas AMD Phenom FX-90 and FX-91 products are set to be released sometime in the first quarter of 2008, sources close to AMD indicated. The move delays the introduction of AMD’s FASN8 platform, which employs two microprocessors and also reduces the number of AMD Phenom FX models to be sold this year.

It is rumoured that four new-generation AMD processors will be available this year: AMD Phenom FX with four processing engines, two quad-core AMD Phenom X4 CPUs and one dual-core AMD Phenom X2.

“Phenom comes really late and so I think the benefit of Phenom in terms of ASP elevation you will see in the first quarter of ’08,” said Henri Richard, AMD’s marketing chief.

So it's looking like we'll prolly get the a few Phenom X4s and Phenom FX-80. It should be good enough, IF Phenom performs like it's been hyped to

[Donnie27]

Well, a lot of super computer owners are waiting for their Barcelonas, since the majority of super computers run Opteron CPUs.

So it's looking like we'll prolly get the a few Phenom X4s and Phenom FX-80. It should be good enough, IF Phenom performs like it's been hyped to

Wouldn't it be easier for AMD to shut up the nay-sayers and stop the bashing? They could have easily performed that task Sorry, I don't take Intel or AMD's word for it.

[GoThr3k]

sigh

proven bij objective test bureau (or whatever in english)
AMD still uses less power on the serverparts (whole systems)
link somewhere on (&#181
this is regarding dualcore,because of amd hasnt released their QC yet, they couldnt compare those

[Zytek_Fan]

This Driggers guy seems like an Intel mouthpiece to me.

Yeah he does.

[safan80]

if this has been posted please delete
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41097

65nm, 45nm CPUs to fit into every AM2 motherboard

By Theo Valich: Friday 20 July 2007, 15:27
ONE OF THE BIGGEST mistakes AMD management did recently was the over confident and pompous slaying of the socket 754/939 processor line-up. People didn't want to upgrade, and those that had to upgrade opted for Socket 775 and Intel Core 2 offerings.

According to our sources, AMD has understood the error of its ways and future processor sockets will be interoperable, at least in the upgrade scheme of things. Owners of Socket AM2 and AM2+ motherboards should have no problems fitting not just current and future K10 quad-core and dual-core processors known as Agena (Phenom X4 GP-7000), Kuma (Phenom X2 GS/GE-6000) and Rana (Athlon X2 BE/LS-2000), but you will also be able to fit 45nm Deneb/Propus/Regor cores from the future (H2'08) that support both DDR2 and DDR3 memory.

The processors of today will not work with motherboards that feature DDR3 supporting Socket AM3, but the other way around should work like a charm. This was done by keeping identical power requirements for the motherboard makers.

We learned that for high-performing motherboards, AMD is requiring that AM2+ motherboards support 125W processors using 95A VRM (Voltage Regulation Module capable of delivering 95 Ampers), and that requirement will not change with AM3 socket. When it comes to the ainstream, cost-effective land - motherboard makers have to provide 89W using 80 Amper current (80A). So, we have three sockets from AMD - AM2, AM2+ and AM3 being physically and electrically identical.

There is also a second version of AM2 socket intended for value segment, the DTX form factor, to be more precise, and that cannot deliver more than 65W using 45 Amper current. This one will fit both 65nm and 45nm K10 processors with low-power markings, the ones around 65W.

Even though AMD is mixing'n'matching right now, judging by the amount of e-mails we have received in the past two years - this policy might prove better than Intel's. That's keeping the same socket, but changing the VRMs to point of zero backwards compatibility. µ

[Donnie27]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41111

AMD turns in $600 million loss

No shock there, then

By INQUIRER staff: Thursday 19 July 2007, 22:09

So, can their keeping Barcelona Secrete help AMD? IMHO, NO!

[Lightman]

I found this article quite interesting!
It has some new technical data about Barcelona design...

L1 Cache

Each core in the Barcelona will have a dedicated 128KB, 2-way set associative L1 cache. This is twice the size of the L1 cache available to each core in the Intel Core 2 processor. The latency for the processor to retrieve data from the L1 cache is 3 clock cycles.



L2 Cache

In the Core 2 design, Intel makes use of a large L2 cache shared between two cores. AMD, however, has chosen to use a smaller, dedicated 512KB L2 cache for each processing core. That means the quad-core Opteron processor will have four separate 512KB L2 caches. These caches are 16-way set associative, and the latency for each core to retrieve data from its L2 cache is 12 clock cycles.



L3 Cache

The Barcelona features a large, shared L3 cache that is at least 2MB in size. This L3 cache will be shared by all cores, whether it's a dual-core or quad-core processor.

This cache is 32-way set associative and is based on a non-inclusive victim cache architecture. The latency for any core to retrieve data from the L3 cache is said to be less than 38 clock cycles. Oddly enough, AMD says the actual latency depends on the clock speed of the south bridge.

Check out full article here!

[Zytek_Fan]

Important Update

George Ou of ZDNet has just alerted us to the fact that not only are these estimated results inaccurate, they are based on outdated Intel results. When the actual results are compared, the Barcelona's advantage is only 1% at 2.6 GHz. Even this advantage is only theoretical as the fastest Barcelona processors to be released initially will only run at 2.0 GHz. For more details on the latest, certified benchmark results, check out George Ou's post here.

George also points out that AMD removed the "simulated" benchmark results from their website on July 6th, and promised to post proper benchmark results of their Barcelona processor. However, we received the very same benchmark results just last week. If these results have already been officially junked by AMD, why are we still being served the same poo?

It MAY be true, but I wonder if they know George Ou is a raving Intel fanboy

[Donnie27]

It MAY be true, but I wonder if they know George Ou is a raving Intel fanboy

If you point out facts that make AMD not look so good, you're an Intel Fanboy? Hey, don't shoot the messagenger if you can't shoot down what he said. Otherwise, you look like an AMD Fanboy!

[freeloader]

This is from my own perspective. I'm just a very small fish in a big sea, and I realize that. I build about 100 systems a year for friends, family and repeat customers. About one year ago, give or take a few months, I built about 90% AMD, 10% Intel systems. Over the past year, that's gone to about 95% Intel, 5% AMD. By not releasing benchmarks for Phenom X4 or X2, AMD is hurting their core business in ways that are unimaginable and they don't seem to care about stemming the tide. All I or anyone else is asking for are some numbers to stop the Intel steamroller. I love AMD and would love to support them, but how can I in good conscience tell my customers to buy AMD right now?

[Zytek_Fan]

This is from my own perspective. I'm just a very small fish in a big sea, and I realize that. I build about 100 systems a year for friends, family and repeat customers. About one year ago, give or take a few months, I built about 90% AMD, 10% Intel systems. Over the past year, that's gone to about 95% Intel, 5% AMD. By not releasing benchmarks for Phenom X4 or X2, AMD is hurting their core business in ways that are unimaginable and they don't seem to care about stemming the tide. All I or anyone else is asking for are some numbers to stop the Intel steamroller. I love AMD and would love to support them, but how can I in good conscience tell my customers to buy AMD right now?

You can't because AMD isn't doin too hot.

[nn_step]

You can't because AMD isn't doin too hot.

given that the average consumer doesn't overclock and the fact that you can pick up a 3600+ CPU/Mobo combo for under $110.
AMD is vastly a better Value (for normal consumers) than Intel

[Zytek_Fan]

given that the average consumer doesn't overclock and the fact that you can pick up a 3600+ CPU/Mobo combo for under $110.
AMD is vastly a better Value (for normal consumers) than Intel

Yeah AMD does win for value. Especially in the budget segment.

[freeloader]

90% of my customers don't care about "value" systems. The majority do video encoding and 3D animation. Budgets are usually in the 3000 to 5000 CDN range.

[nn_step]

90% of my customers don't care about "value" systems. The majority do video encoding and 3D animation. Budgets are usually in the 3000 to 5000 CDN range.

Those "workstations" are not the industry standard PC. Now $400 PCs are the standards

[GMX]

Those "workstations" are not the industry standard PC. Now $400 PCs are the standards

no 400 is the ultra low end. Not standard.