New Swiftech Stuff

[OPPAINTER]

In regards to this new 120 compact kit, Swiftech sent out a bunch of these for review already. It will be interesting to see what they have to say about this kit.

OPP

[gabe]

idealistically, were trying to get rid of 620W Peak, of heat out though a MCR220 radiator.

that's were you are off. I can confirm your 200W peak for the quad (we measured)... but we also MEASURED that the 8800 GTX GPU "only" dumps a max of 100W of heat ito the coolant, 117W if you have a full coverage block (you stated 200..).

This being said, what your radiators sees is almost never 200+100+100W, because unless you are intentionaly stress testing, there are no games or apps that I know of that load both these high-end CPU and GPU's at 100% all at once.

[IanY]

Listen.. what someone feels "comfortable" with is necessarily subjective. Not everyone has a big budget and this product fits that market niche.

Perhaps the target market for this product doesn't necessarily belong in XS I think [H], THG and Anand are open for business

I suppose Naekuh would be looking elsewhere

Gabe, I speak frankly here. Please don't lose focus on the high end community. That's the foundation of your company's success and that segment would always provide the platform and people like Naekuh will continue being the engine of your future growth. You're not Taiwanese. You're not Korean. Please keep being American and French... as in NOT cater to the lowest common denominator... Someone came up with the phrase.. "the N00bification of Swiftech"... Hopefully not. I'm from East Asia myself.. and I cannot stand the Thermaltake/Koolance/Zalman/Creative mentality (how's that for a diss). We like you the way you are.

[gabe]

would the pump vibration have any significant impact on the mount? my ddc-2 vibrates quite a bit.

We are not using the DDC2 (not to say it couldn't be used)

We are also using a "hard-mount" method to secure the cooler onto the M/B.

[MrToad]

Listen.. what someone feels "comfortable" with is necessarily subjective. Not everyone has a big budget and this product fits that market niche.

Perhaps the target market for this product doesn't necessarily belong in XS I think [H], THG and Anand are open for business

I think I agree with you on this. I'm starting to agree with you too much. That's bad. I must have the wrong head screwed on.

Moving on. This kits look aimed at the segment of the market that's now full of TTs and Zalmans. And it looks it's going to give them a run for their money. And that's good.

Perhaps a few honest reviews here and there (this product as it is IMHO doesn't need good reviews, just honest ones) will ensure some market penetration.

However, TTs production capabilities, established distribution channel and marketing machine might prove a bone hard to chew...

Gabe, I speak frankly here. Please don't lose focus on the high end community. That's the foundation of your company's success and that segment would always provide the platform and people like Naekuh will continue being the engine of your future growth. You're not Taiwanese. You're not Korean. Please keep being American and French... as in NOT cater to the lowest common denominator... Someone came up with the phrase.. "the N00bification of Swiftech"... Hopefully not. I'm from East Asia myself.. and I cannot stand the Thermaltake/Koolance/Zalman/Creative mentality (how's that for a diss). We like you the way you are.

I subscribe that too. Oh dear...

Anyway, I hope that this new line of products will open a new line of revenue for your company, and ensure your presence in the business for both the mass market and the hi-end market for a long time.

[_G_]

We are not using the DDC2 (not to say it couldn't be used)

We are also using a "hard-mount" method to secure the cooler onto the M/B.

will the block/pump housing be available seprate for those that allready have a pump(ddc)?

also really like the fillport on the radiator endcap(rad in kit) will that be available on any of the larger models?

[gabe]

Gabe, I speak frankly here. Please don't lose focus on the high end community. That's the foundation of your company's success and that segment would always provide the platform and people like Naekuh will continue being the engine of your future growth.

I have only one answer to this: I use it for my home system (E6600 OC + 8800GTX SLI), and I am converting my office workstation (quad + 2900XT) to it as soon as humanly possible.

I wrote and meant every word in the product page, and I said this: "make no mistake, this kit is no entry level weakling".

This is a serious cooling system for serious users Guys! The Apogee Drive combines Apogee GTX with DDC1 performance. Nothing to be ashamed of in my book.. and you save $60 in the process compared to buying the components separately. What's wrong with that?

I see this new generation of products as a revolution in the water-cooling industry: A true high performance product at a reasonable cost, and simple to install.

I understand that because it is relatively economical, the perception will be first "if it's cheap it must be no good".. but this perception will go away as soon as you have hundreds, and then thousands of people using it. This is the quantum leap progress that a lot of people have been waiting for.

[TheJollyFellow]

Well, regardless of the kit option, the integrated pump and Apogee GT (the website states the copper base is the same design, but are the barbs the same distance apart as in the GTX?) hold a lot of promise, especially for $99! I'd be very interested to see some real world testing of that coupled with a triple radiator, or something closer to what xtreme overclockers would want

My only complaint: 3/8" barbs! We've all read Cathar's results, so performance isn't a problem, but conversion of 1/2" parts to 3/8" parts is a pain

ah well, maybe we'll see some custom tops for this one too

[gabe]

However, TTs production capabilities, established distribution channel and marketing machine might prove a bone hard to chew....

They are going to have to think really hard on that one. We have a bullet proof patent pending on it so that no one can use the DDC motor, it means that they are going to have to be really creative to beat the product performance. Price wise, we will continue to suffer some handicap because of the pump cost, but it's quality/performance feature set is also the product primary advantage.

As to production capabilities, our resources are practically unlimited on that line of products.

Distribution channels and marketing clout: yes they are definitely at an advantage here, but we have also been doing guerrilla marketing for 7 years now, and look: we are still here and growing!

A final note: I have read statements by some people saying that water-cooling was never going to go mainstream. I believe that our technology is now mature enough for consideration in mainstream applications.

[weescott]

It certainly looks like a good entry level product and certainly no "weakling", but I what we need is figures of voltages and overclocks. 40dba is too loud for me personally. Is the 40dba with a mild overlock on the CPU only?

I don't intend to question the integrity of the product but I would like to know the differentiating factors between this and say a PA120.3, DDC2 etc... loop that I would normally say was fitting for such a rig.

[dinos22]

that's were you are off. I can confirm your 200W peak for the quad (we measured)... but we also MEASURED that the 8800 GTX GPU "only" dumps a max of 100W of heat ito the coolant, 117W if you have a full coverage block (you stated 200..).

This being said, what your radiators sees is almost never 200+100+100W, because unless you are intentionaly stress testing, there are no games or apps that I know of that load both these high-end CPU and GPU's at 100% all at once.

NOW where is VictorWang to read this

[gabe]

because I didn't think of it, I was to anxious to get the IHS off, though if someone is willing to lend me two EVGA 8800 GTS I would gladly work on getting baseline temps.

I know, I was just teasing you

Or for an if the guys @ Swiftech are willing to lend me a single 8800 Ultra I would ship my GTS so you guys could test solutions? ;-) Roughly about the same price?

both our 8800's are in my home system for long term testing purposes ;-)

AS I write this I am mounting my Apogee GTX (bowed, on naked X6800) and will be putting the 8800s back in SLI, so I am curious to see what I get for temps then. As is I have 4 Swifty blocks in my loop.

now this should be interesting!

[_G_]

<snip>
AS I write this I am mounting my Apogee GTX (bowed, on naked X6800) <snip>

I thought convex(bowed) waterblocks where just a work around for a less than flat ihs?

[NaeKuh]

that's were you are off. I can confirm your 200W peak for the quad (we measured)... but we also MEASURED that the 8800 GTX GPU "only" dumps a max of 100W of heat ito the coolant, 117W if you have a full coverage block (you stated 200..).

This being said, what your radiators sees is almost never 200+100+100W, because unless you are intentionaly stress testing, there are no games or apps that I know of that load both these high-end CPU and GPU's at 100&#37; all at once.

This is a quote frojm a reputable review.
"The GeForce 8800 GTX is obviously a very power-hungry part, as you might have guessed ... NVIDIA tells us that the TDP of the card is around the 185W mark"

I believe Marci stated that the TDP is the theoretically MAX heat load a chip can get. This is also how i got my 200W TDP off quadcores. I pluged them in a voltage calculator, and it spat out 200-220W depending on the OC of the chip.

Now, we got a graphic intensive game, which will load the cores up at 100% on both in sli.

Lets not even add up CPU temps. Now, if you blast up all the AA's and Filters, that gfx card will get loaded near 100%

So lets use a bit more conservative numbers of 170W. Times that by 2 you get 340W.

Ummm... Quad @ 200W gives you 540W for games like supreme commander with full options and settings set on max.


:\

Yes i supose it would give you "acceptable" temps. Definite within the safe zone. But for a radiator which was only ment to handle 300-400W of heat. :\ Thats a bit too much stress.

Anyhow i wont get into anymore. Its just something that brought up my concern.

[Angry_Steel]

Certain aspects of this appeal to me.

Seeing T-Take not being able to copy something for once is a joy in and of itself. Taking the market from them and all the other half baked wannabe's would bring a smile to more than one face.

Having a built in res on the radiator seems like a good idea. I for one would like to ditch the whole t-line, res and have more room and less tubing. Unfortunately in my mind, the days of the single 120mm rad are gone. Like someone else asked, are you going to incorporate this tech into 220 and 320 rads?

For the rest, well Im sure it will appeal to first timers, people wanting to cool a media pc, or people fed up with running intricate loops. I on the other hand have absolutely no interest in a shake and bake setup. I derive my enjoyment as much from the construction as from the final results.

Pump on the block? Unless there is a SIGNIFICANT performance boost from having it there, I see no reason to run the risk of leaks due to vibration. Granted that may never happen, then again.....Id rather be responsible for my own catastrophe, then I only have myself to blame.

On a lighter note...Does the Apogee Drive come with the O-ring to bow it?

Hey, dont get me wrong, I have enough Swiftech stuff to open my own store and I love it all. I just hope Swiftech doesnt forget its roots on its way to the mass market.

On a side note: I for one was disappointed with seeing the GTX and the Stealth manufactured in Aluminum. Regardless of the reasoning or the "myths" or the "probabilities" it just doesnt appeal to most people who have strived to keep that metal out of the loop. Because of that my first ever non-Swiftech block ended up being a D-tek. Stealth? No thanks, Ill stay with my MCW60. Honestly I think you could have knocked out the market on that if you had only designed a true FC block minus the Alu. Please...no more Alu. Or at the very least, offer a delrin or copper top for people who want that choice.

[gabe]

This is a quote frojm a reputable review.
"The GeForce 8800 GTX is obviously a very power-hungry part, as you might have guessed ... NVIDIA tells us that the TDP of the card is around the 185W mark"

I believe Marci stated that the TDP is the theoretically MAX heat load a chip can get. This is also how i got my 200W TDP off quadcores. I pluged them in a voltage calculator, and it spat out 200-220W depending on the OC of the chip.

Now, we got a graphic intensive game, which will load the cores up at 100&#37; on both in sli.

Lets not even add up CPU temps. Now, if you blast up all the AA's and Filters, that gfx card will get loaded near 100%

So lets use a bit more conservative numbers of 170W. Times that by 2 you get 340W.

Ummm... Quad @ 200W gives you 540W for games like supreme commander with full options and settings set on max.


:\

Yes i supose it would give you "acceptable" temps. Definite within the safe zone. But for a radiator which was only ment to handle 300-400W of heat. :\ Thats a bit too much stress.

Anyhow i wont get into anymore. Its just something that brought up my concern.

Naekuh.. read me carefully..we MEASURED.. there is no guessing game here. What I am talking about is the actual amount of heat that goes into the GPU water block. One can't argue with measuring instruments.

[Pete]

Gabe,

Can we please have some photos of the unit and it all opened up, non of these computer done ones, real ones be nice!

[gabe]

Gabe,

Can we please have some photos of the unit and it all opened up, non of these computer done ones, real ones be nice!

3D models and actual pieces really are the same, except for external skin texture.

[gabe]

Having a built in res on the radiator seems like a good idea. I for one would like to ditch the whole t-line, res and have more room and less tubing. Unfortunately in my mind, the days of the single 120mm rad are gone. Like someone else asked, are you going to incorporate this tech into 220 and 320 rads?

the 220 is scheduled for release mid-end august. maybe sooner if we can. We have no plans for the 320 yet, but given enough demand

For the rest, well Im sure it will appeal to first timers, people wanting to cool a media pc, or people fed up with running intricate loops. I on the other hand have absolutely no interest in a shake and bake setup. I derive my enjoyment as much from the construction as from the final results.

Yes, I understand that. Sorry we are kind of "taking away" some of the fun to xtreme guys by offering advanced solutions useable by anyone. But this is how progress goes. Look how many new technologies are used in cars today that actually came from F1 racing..

On a lighter note...Does the Apogee Drive come with the O-ring to bow it?

the bow technique works with any IHS covered silicon (proven again with the stealth r2)

[MrToad]

the bow technique works with any IHS covered silicon (proven again with the stealth r2)

I sincerely apologize for being thick dangerously bordering being obnoxious, but sometimes I need to see things in black and white.

Shall I gather from that statement that a X6800 would benefit from a bowed GTX the same way the quad cores do?

[gabe]

I sincerely apologize for being thick dangerously bordering being obnoxious, but sometimes I need to see things in black and white.

Shall I gather from that statement that a X6800 would benefit from a bowed GTX the same way the quad cores do?

I believe so without the shadow of a doubt. [edit] yes.

[MrToad]

I believe so without the shadow of a doubt.

You're going to cost me a kidney you know? Well, no, in this case this expression is unfortunate. Let's say you're going to cost me a piece of my liver.

Anyway, your original Apogee has managed to keep the delta T of my o/c X6800 in 21C under 100% load, soon we'll see what a bowed GTX can deliver

I suppose although the measuring instrumentation can hardly be called "laboratory grade" the readings obtained with the same probes and in the same setup can be compared...

[gabe]

You're going to cost me a kidney you know? Well, no, in this case this expression is unfortunate. Let's say you're going to cost me a piece of my liver.

Anyway, your original Apogee has managed to keep the delta T of my o/c X6800 in 21C under 100% load, soon we'll see what a bowed GTX can deliver

I suppose although the measuring instrumentation can hardly be called "laboratory grade" the readings obtained with the same probes and in the same setup can be compared...

sorry I forgot you had an apogee GT already. why don't you just bow the GT? The difference between a bowed GT and a bowed GTX is 1C at 100 Watts. Just figure out how many watts your processor is outputting by using our CPU temp calculator (it also gives the watts). It is extremely accurate.

[nikhsub1]

I believe so without the shadow of a doubt.

This is not just a belief it is a fact. Bowed pwns unbowed on IHS. In my test by as much as 5c or so on a 6600.

[generics_user]

THIS THING IS GOING TO DIE IN A DESKTOP (desktop case, the ones you put onto your desk under the monitor) SYSTEM, SO KEEP IT AWAY FROM HTPCs

DDC is not supposed to run top-side down, you better add this on the swifty page , in a normal ATX case the design looks good, but this thing is going to make res placing even harder...

EDIT: i killed my DDC-1 pro this way, together with my ultra-d (cpu+vga survived)