Koolance's Response to Hardware Labs "The Copper Radiator Myth"

[nikhsub1]

Wow, plz don't feed the trolls.

[SDatl404]

Okay then I think I have the perfect fan for you http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/de12gf.html
Order 4 of those, and come back to tell us how you like the 72db. Oh wait oops, wrong fan 4 of those is "only" 65db. I think you'll like this one more http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/de12tfexhisp.html

If only that fan was thinner I would sooo use it!!!

One of our programs have actually yielded the possibility of using one of our racing cores (copper and brass) to generate down force due to its relatively lower pressure drop rating in relation to its HEx capacity. But that's something applicable when your car is running an average of 160MPH in between pit stops.

It isn't simply just about weight and cost in some aspects. Rally car radiators for instance are tuned to be optimized for a certain speed range in between acceleration.

There are actually more considerations as to why aluminum radiators have flourished in the automotive arena, but for the time being, it really is about costs.

Bill of Materials wise, Aluminum is CHEAPER than copper/brass radiators even if the process used to manufacture them is expensive. This is something Koolance wants its customers to believe. That's the reason why automotive manufacturers have shifted almost entirely to aluminum.

Koolance does not manufacture its own radiators, I'm waiting to get one of those and find the equivalent automotive part I suspect it shares a platform with on the market.

Just do a test with it!! Insult them with facts! Unless you don't think you can beat them.. Which honestly is what I think the case is...

Fine with me. But my PC isn't on a racetrack

I still hold by my first statement, just because the koolance rad seems to do better at extreme water temps and airflow doesn't mean it'll still win at typical PC water cooling water temps and airflow. But, to make sure, I have an idea... if the koolance rads are so much better than thermochill, and thermochill is supposed to be better than swiftech (which I have), why don't we do a little test? If you pay for the rad (and anti-corrosion additive) I'll put a similar-sized koolance rad in my PC and compare the temps. Oh wait, koolance doesn't have a standard triple rad. So much for that idea.

I have a better idea. Since I have the koolance radiator how about you send me yours and someone send me a pa120.3 and I will do the tests. Anyone in the local area would be more then welcome to come view the results here!

[Burn]

I think that we should take a step back and look at their "intention" in responding- It's not like Koolance has made us want to buy their products any more, at all. They really have achieved positively 0 by getting into this pissing match if you step back and take a look at it- Their objective is to sell (radiators in this case) products, and from the looks of it, I don't see any new Koolance radiator users in the forums. I guess I just don't know why Koolance conducted that test in such unrealistic working conditions, and while they have raked up a bunch of muck, they really haven't achieved much :\

[serialk11r]

Wow, plz don't feed the trolls.

Damn sorry, you're right. Goodbye SDatl404...

[Cathar]

If you want a high-end high-performance radiator, from Thermochill specifically, for high-speed fans you'd choose an HE series radiator, not a PA radiator. The HE is rather dated though, but it does its job like a good workhorse.

Horses for courses. No one enters an F1 car into a noise/fuel-economy race.

BTW. Just in case anyone is confused, I don't work for Thermochill, and I'm not a radiator manufacturer. I just put my hand up to provide input to benefit the greater community and target their needs, and Thermochill/Marci was the only company prepared to listen. I am extremely loyal to TC/Marci though, I won't deny that. I see them as one of the few manufacturers who do actively listen to the community.

[SDatl404]

Wow, plz don't feed the trolls.

Trolls are green right? Kinda like the color of that pc....

I think that we should take a step back and look at their "intention" in responding- It's not like Koolance has made us want to buy their products any more, at all. They really have achieved positively 0 by getting into this pissing match if you step back and take a look at it- Their objective is to sell (radiators in this case) products, and from the looks of it, I don't see any new Koolance radiator users in the forums. I guess I just don't know why Koolance conducted that test in such unrealistic working conditions, and while they have raked up a bunch of muck, they really haven't achieved much :\

I don't under stand either why koolance didn't do any realworld test. Maybe because you can't see a differance in all the radiators until it gets high up!

The reason there isn't many new koolance user in here:

1) Everyone here constantly talks smack and says they are junk 24/7. 99% of them know nothing about radiators and have only used one in their life. Of coarse this would be a thermochill, because every likes them sooo much.

2) Most users here like to build there own custom units. Koolance is more designed around the ready made solutions for people with less time or less knowledge on building things.

[Grinch]

If you want a high-end high-performance radiator, from Thermochill specifically, for high-speed fans you'd choose an HE series radiator, not a PA radiator.

Horses for courses. No one enters an F1 car into a noise/fuel-economy race.

BTW. Just in case anyone is confused, I don't work for Thermochill, and I'm not a radiator manufacturer. I just put my hand up to provide input to benefit the greater community and target their needs, and Thermochill/Marci was the only company prepared to listen. I am extremely loyal to TC/Marci though, I won't deny that. I see them as one of the few manufacturers who do actively listen to the community.

Agree 100%...well put!

[Sparky]

I have a better idea. Since I have the koolance radiator how about you send me yours and someone send me a pa120.3 and I will do the tests. Anyone in the local area would be more then welcome to come view the results here!

Not doing that, I'm not disabling my PC for that long (or sending my rad to someone I don't know either for that matter really, no offense). I'm certain the koolance would loose anyway

[SDatl404]

Not doing that, I'm not disabling my PC for that long (or sending my rad to someone I don't know either for that matter really, no offense). I'm certain the koolance would loose anyway

CMON man do it for the community!

[Sparky]

CMON man do it for the community!

If you really want to compare them then get one yourself. Sorry but I cannot afford to shut my PC down for that long, I need my PC, it is my work system (and play hehe). I do a lot on it.

[Top Nurse]

Is this soemthing of an international war now? Koolance are German right??

Please Koolance is made in South Korea.

[hwlabs]

With good reason, we never really expected Koolance to go this far.

No doubt real-world tests will be conducted and side by side comparisons will be made.

I thought it best to return Koolance the favor for buying one of our radiators.

[Halk]

Okay, let's put the fanboyism away for a second.

But before I start I'll make it clear I am neutal. I don't give a crap who makes the best stuff. I have a slight preference that it's British, second to that European, third to that not Amercian. But that aside...

I realise I've aleady posted several pages back on the validity of the Koolance tests, but with a bit more thought I'd like to add some more comments.

Previously I was playing Devils Advocate, i.e. I was not willing to accept that Koolance had completely rigged the tests. My reasons being that if you wanted an independant test of radiators the only place to go would be some place related to the Automotive industry, which in turn would, as we indeed have seen, result in test circumstances far removed to normal PC watercooling.

I am quite willing to accept that if Koolance wanted independant tests this was the only route open to them.

However, after giving it some thought, I absolutely and without any doubt state that Koolance knew these results were not typical to anywhere in the same ball park, PC watercooling. There is zero chance they didn't immediately recognise that the temps and airflow were far, far in excess of what is the absolute outside of what happens.

Given that they A) Did not acknowledge it, and B) Did not offer any kind of comparison to the figures that are commonly quoted in PC watercooling...

Then I deem, and I'll say it in court, that they were deliberately out to deceive. Which in my book is on the same page as lying.

It is not possible to judge if they intended to go out and seek these results, or if they ended up with these results and intended to publish them anyway.

But stuff it. They are attempting to deceive consumers, and that may not be illegal.

Koolance, this is the bit you'll want to take me to court for libel over : Your radiators in any conceivable circumstances are inferior. Your products under perform your competitors. Official Koolance product descriptions are misleading. Finally that Koolance are lying to customers

The statement " At best, we are left with the conclusion our original claim of outperforming the other brass/copper heat exchangers by only 39-49% was conservative." is a lie. It's only applicable outside of any reasonable application, something which Koolance should be well aware of. And by stating it they are saying that their products are superior to other products on the market. Since their products are inferior, then this will cause a negative impact on their competitors sales. This is libelous.

Anyway, Koolance. Sue me if you disagree.

[hwlabs]

If you want a high-end high-performance radiator, from Thermochill specifically, for high-speed fans you'd choose an HE series radiator, not a PA radiator. The HE is rather dated though, but it does its job like a good workhorse.

Horses for courses. No one enters an F1 car into a noise/fuel-economy race.

BTW. Just in case anyone is confused, I don't work for Thermochill, and I'm not a radiator manufacturer. I just put my hand up to provide input to benefit the greater community and target their needs, and Thermochill/Marci was the only company prepared to listen. I am extremely loyal to TC/Marci though, I won't deny that. I see them as one of the few manufacturers who do actively listen to the community.

Though in F1, fuel economy may make the difference in terms of holding on to pole position in between pitstops, and the minute gains, even seemingly insignificant, can make the difference between winning or losing.

10KG more = 0.14 sec lag.

The higher air pressure drop against the radiator will slow down the vehicle and/or reduce the necessary airflow needed to be converted to downforce.

The Audi R10 won Le Mans largely on its ability to minimize fuel stops. Now if they can only get the injection system to be more reliable, they would increase that advantage.

[SDatl404]

With good reason, we never really expected Koolance to go this far.

No doubt real-world tests will be conducted and side by side comparisons will be made.

I thought it best to return Koolance the favor for buying one of our radiators.

Thats what I am talking about. Put all this to rest!

LOL it's good to have a sense of humor in all this...

Your radiators in any conceivable circumstances are inferior. Your products under perform your competitors. Official Koolance product descriptions are misleading. Finally that Koolance are lying to customers

Hearsay!

You have no proof to back anything up. They do. So get mad all you want, but at "XTREME"s the koolance owns!

[Halk]

Thats what I am talking about. Put all this to rest!

LOL it's good to have a sense of humor in all this...



Hearsay!

You have no proof to back anything up. They do. So get mad all you want, but at "XTREME"s the koolance owns!

Not only do I have an in depth study of their results. As supplied by watercooling experts. I have my own study of common radiator types, at various ranges of air flow, ranging from about as silent as it's possible to be with a PC to around as noisy as it's reasonable to tolerate with headphones on.

I'll be happy to provide these studies in court.

And I'm not mad - I'm drunk, and calling Koolance's bluff. I'm that confident they can't back up their claims that I'm happy to go to court. Assuming I win the case (which I will) I can afford to drop the legal fees from my savings while the case runs.

[Cathar]

Though in F1, fuel economy may make the difference in terms of holding on to pole position in between pitstops, and the minute gains, even seemingly insignificant, can make the difference between winning or losing.

I meant an economy race (>100kms/litre), not designing an F1 car to be economical in the ranges of 1-1.5kms/litre (or whatever it is they do).

[Halk]

Oh, something I wanted to ask to Cathar (I believe he had something to do with the design of the PA series rad) and to Marci.

How would an all aluminium PA series radiator compare - a few adjustments can be granted, but essentially the same product.

In other words, is there anything at all in Koolances statements about aluminium. I'm happy to accept - thanks to the studies done - that a combination of their materials, manufacturing process and design do not produce a superior radiator.

[hwlabs]

True, just mentioning the fact that getting 2km more out of a tank means a lot to these people.

We have some designs here that is intended for such an application.

But yes, calling F1 a green sport is about as sensible as calling Japanese whaling activities scientific. Only that F1 is more fun.

[SDatl404]

Not only do I have an in depth study of their results. As supplied by watercooling experts. I have my own study of common radiator types, at various ranges of air flow, ranging from about as silent as it's possible to be with a PC to around as noisy as it's reasonable to tolerate with headphones on.

I'll be happy to provide these studies in court.

And I'm not mad - I'm drunk, and calling Koolance's bluff. I'm that confident they can't back up their claims that I'm happy to go to court. Assuming I win the case (which I will) I can afford to drop the legal fees from my savings while the case runs.

I hope it's not off millerlite.

[dinos22]

With good reason, we never really expected Koolance to go this far.

No doubt real-world tests will be conducted and side by side comparisons will be made.

I thought it best to return Koolance the favor for buying one of our radiators.

looking forward to the real word test

welcome to XS

[Halk]

I hope it's not off millerlite.

No, it's not. But what's wrong with the lite beers. I really enjoy them. Everything in it's place etc, horses for courses, but in a tropical climate lite beers are incredibly refreshing and crisp.

[SDatl404]

in a tropical climate lite beers are incredibly refreshing and crisp.

Wow you sound like you have a passion for drinking

I figured you for a crown and coke type person....

[Grinch]

ocean spray....ew la la

[Halk]

Wow you sound like you have a passion for drinking

I figured you for a crown and coke type person....

Crown?

I'm Scottish, apparently I'm ginger, beat my wife, and have a severe drinking problem. It's in the genes apparently,