False information in the articles: No UVD in R600

[cadaveca]

UVD is decoder, Xilleon is encoder to send data across Digital interface, like HDMI. I myself add UVD to Xilleon engine, to make one whole part of the HDTV 2D engine ATI has had on the market for quite some time.

http://ati.amd.com/products/dtv.html

Now, this is all part of HDCP schematic...each device, whether sending or recieving needs to have specific parts of HDCP compliancy. As Xilleon was already on the market, it was only a natural progression of this technology that would come to be known as "UVD", as Xilleon should have been set up properly in order to deal with the HDCP requirements. ATi has long been in the market for set-top boxes for cable broadcasts and HDTV, although not selling specific parts other than video decoders, RAMDACs and the like. Most peopel would be pleasantly surprised at the number of products that feature ATi parts...it wasn't videocards or chipsets that "sold the farm" on the AMD purchase.

Anyway, sorry for the confusion about Xilleon...that's entirely my fault.

[Eastcoasthandle]

UVD is decoder, Xilleon is encoder to send data across Digital interface, like HDMI. I myself add UVD to Xilleon engine, to make one whole part of the HDTV 2D engine ATI has had on the market for quite some time.

http://ati.amd.com/products/dtv.html

Now, this is all part of HDCP schematic...each device, whether sending or recieving needs to have specific parts of HDCP compliancy. As Xilleon was already on the market, it was only a natural progression of this technology that would come to be known as "UVD", as Xilleon should have been set up properly in order to deal with the HDCP requirements. ATi has long been in the market for set-top boxes for cable broadcasts and HDTV, although not selling specific parts other than video decoders, RAMDACs and the like. Most peopel would be pleasantly surprised at the number of products that feature ATi parts...it wasn't videocards or chipsets that "sold the farm" on the AMD purchase.

Anyway, sorry for the confusion about Xilleon...that's entirely my fault.

But my card reads Theater not Xilleon. Or did I miss it on the card somewhere?

[Shintai]

I´m just worried R600 simply dont do any, or just as X1950XTX. In that case you need a good CPU.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2886&p=4 (last chart)

A E6600 can barely do it with the help of the x1950XTX.

[cadaveca]

But my card reads Theater not Xilleon. Or did I miss it on the card somewhere?

No..Theater/Xilleon are teh same technology, a UVD that provides copy-protection schemes/connectivity to digital devices.

The X240S & X240H are the first chips to integrate all the major components necessary for manufacturers to build digital integrated televisions at lower costs. The Xilleon 240S TV-on-Chip™ includes a Digital Front End capable of demodulating and decoding 8VSB for ATSC terrestrial broadcasts or 64/256 QAM for digital cable, a HD/SD capable MPEG video and audio decoder, a NTSC video decoder featuring a 3D comb filter, and a powerful MIPS® CPU (central processing unit). The X240S supports both digital and analog SD (Standard Definition) outputs.

the Xilleon is of course much more advanced.

This field proven chip includes an analog front end (AFE), Advanced Physical layer (PHY), Programmable DOCSIS 2.0 media access control (MAC), and an ARM 9 communications processor. Embedded interfaces include Ethernet 10/100 MAC/PHY, MII, USB 1.1 MAC/PHY, Silicon or Can Tuner interfaces as well as an I2C master for controlling additional AMD physical layer devices.

Both devices are "systems on a chip" featuring differnt functionality, altohugh the base "tech design" is the same, providing SECURE connectivity.

This is why UVD using no system resources(CPU) is such a big deal...at least to me...with it's included processor(which made me think this card would have "clock domains" such as nV's cards do), all processing tasks are done on the card; decode, encode, and post processing. All the cpu does is provide connectivity between the media device and the vidcard.

What this means is that like nV's G8x I/O chip, ATi's R600 should have either had this integrated within the gpu, or on a seperate device, as nV does. "Missing Mul", anyone?

The Theater chip you think of IS an input/out chip...and possibly what's alluded to in the "UVD", but "Theater 2xx" devices do not provide hardware decoding...nor do they provide HDTV connectivity...this chip is merely for the s-video/composite input/outputs.

[Sampsa]

It decodes al the HD video codecs even better then 8800 does. Discussing this things is just ridiculous

It´s working even better that 8800, so why complayning?

HD 2900 XT decodes all HD formats even better then 8800. The way it is done is ATI problem not user problem. The decoding is working very good.

Also making a siticky of a thing like this doesn´t make much sense, but ok....
At least put in the first post those slides that show that the deconding made by 2900XT is very good, and not bad as some people want that it be....

Have you tested decoding yourself? With current drivers (8.37) there is absolutely no benefit of Radeon HD 2900 XT when decoding HD-DVD movies (VC-1 and H.264). Nothing like the figures you posted.

[Andrewv]

What about the HD2400vs8500 for h264/avc and vc1 hardware accel ?
which one batter ?

[Eastcoasthandle]

No..Theater/Xilleon are teh same technology, a UVD that provides copy-protection schemes/connectivity to digital devices.



the Xilleon is of course much more advanced.



Both devices are "systems on a chip" featuring differnt functionality, altohugh the base "tech design" is the same, providing SECURE connectivity.

This is why UVD using no system resources(CPU) is such a big deal...at least to me...with it's included processor(which made me think this card would have "clock domains" such as nV's cards do), all processing tasks are done on the card; decode, encode, and post processing. All the cpu does is provide connectivity between the media device and the vidcard.

What this means is that like nV's G8x I/O chip, ATi's R600 should have either had this integrated within the gpu, or on a seperate device, as nV does. "Missing Mul", anyone?

The Theater chip you think of IS an input/out chip...and possibly what's alluded to in the "UVD", but "Theater 2xx" devices do not provide hardware decoding...nor do they provide HDTV connectivity...this chip is merely for the s-video/composite input/outputs.

You mean to tell me that I am missing Xilleon as well as UVD???

[ahmad]

Back at CeBIT ATI announced that R600 WILL have UVD:

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News...x?NewsId=20005

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/03...deo_processor/



And I just saw this in wikipedia:

ATI AVIVO HD video and display technology (based on UVD) and built-in HDMI and 5.1 surround audio with game physics processing capability and 475 GFLOPS processing power. The Rage Theater chip used in Radeon X1000 series video cards was replaced with the digital Rage Theater 200 chip, providing VIVO capabilities. Among other details, the R600-series graphics cards features dual-link DVI output with HDCP, and provides an special designed DVI-to-HDMI dongle for HDMI output with dongle carrying sound data. However, as ATI stated that the Radeon HD 2900 XT (the R600 core) was developed earlier, the UVD features will not be presented, and graphics cards based on the R600 core will feature only basic AVIVO hardware decoding features for video streams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_R600

I wonder where they got their info from.... And this site has reports of naming schemes/features, and they only list RV630 as having UVD:

http://www.answers.com/topic/radeon-r600

So now its clear R600 does NOT have UVD (or does not have UVD enabled). I think this is due to the fact that its already at 720million transistors, and seeing that UVD is ondie, it would just decrease yeild. That is why it will be present in lower models. Which would also make sense as to why original samples had UVD (hence CeBIT info).

So I think ATI did not inform AIBs that they had ditched UVD in the final retail revision of the R600.

PS. Add this to the front page sampsa

EDIT: There is one review that said it won't have it, and that is:

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/671-...d-2900-xt.html

Notez qu'AMD annonce l'UVD avec les Radeon HD2000. Il s'agit d'un moteur dédié à l'accélération vidéo et certifié capable de prendre en charge tous les médias Bluray et HD-DVD. Cependant l'UVD n'est pas intégré au Radeon HD 2900 XT, et se limite donc aux HD2600 et 2400, un peu comme le Pure Video 2 qui n'est pas présent sur 8800 mais sur 8600.

[Eastcoasthandle]

This makes no sense to me. This article is about 1 week old clearly stating that UVD (etc) would be added to the video card. This makes no sense to me because at the time of the interview video cards were already sent to stores for sale. How do we go from "using UVD" to "not using uvd" in a week's time frame?

In addition, the R600 is the first GPU that integrates the Universal Video Decoding (UVD) engine for hardware video decoding, plus a 3D engine for rendering. According to AMD, this configuration offers a significantly higher performance, since the workload of CPU during play-back of HD video is transferred to the GPU and specifically the UVD engine itself. In addition the shaders are off-loaded since video decoding is not dependent on the 3D engine.

Here something else, if you don't have UVD what's the point of the audio processor?

[ahmad]

Here something else, if you don't have UVD what's the point of the audio processor?

Its quite clear that UVD has nothing to do with HDCP/HDMI playback. It is something ATI introduced to remove the need for calculating the bitstream on the CPU, thats it.



It helps with playback, but its not part of it. AVIVO works in a fashion similar to that of PureVideo2.

[v_rr]

Have you tested decoding yourself? With current drivers (8.37) there is absolutely no benefit of Radeon HD 2900 XT when decoding HD-DVD movies (VC-1 and H.264). Nothing like the figures you posted.

Offcourse. Look to your first post and read all David Bauman info:

HD 2900 does not have UVD; it'll be paried with HD video capable CPU's. The drivers used in that test don't yet have decode acceleration enabled either, first revision of that comes with 8.38.

You need ate least 8.38 to try something. Beside the drivers you have to have a HD player that suports Hardware decoding. Generaly those players are not free.
Also maybe you can have to install some software from Microsoft site. At least in Windows XP.

[Eastcoasthandle]

Its quite clear that UVD has nothing to do with HDCP/HDMI playback. It is something ATI introduced to remove the need for calculating the bitstream on the CPU, thats it.



It helps with playback, but its not part of it. AVIVO works in a fashion similar to that of PureVideo2.

You are looking at the bark of the tree instead of the forest here. What I mean is that both UVD (etc) and the audio component compliment one another as a whole package. When UVD (etc) is removed it appears that you are not getting the whole package, IMO. If UVD (etc) was used you would have both a gaming rig and a HD/BR HTPC without worrying about having a high end processor and have a silent video card.

[Sampsa]

Offcourse. Look to your first post and read all David Bauman info:


You need ate least 8.38 to try something. Beside the drivers you have to have a HD player that suports Hardware decoding. Generaly those players are not free.
Also maybe you can have to install some software from Microsoft site. At least in Windows XP.

8.38 RC7 drivers were published yesterday to press and I tried decoding HD-DVD decoding with Radeon HD 2900 XT today. HD-DVD movie with H.264 codec was completely corrupted with Cyberlink PowerDVD and Avivo acceleration. With VC-1 HD-DVD movie CPU load dropped a little bit compared to 8.37 drivers (55 % -> 46%) but it's still alot worse than with 8800 Ultra and 8600 GTS (31 - 33 % CPU Load).

[ahmad]

You are looking at the bark of the tree instead of the forest here. What I mean is that both UVD (etc) and the audio component compliment one another as a whole package. When UVD (etc) is removed it appears that you are not getting the whole package, IMO. If UVD (etc) was used you would have both a gaming rig and a HD/BR HTPC without worrying about having a high end processor and have a silent video card.

Sure. Now after rereading your comment it could be understood that way as well.

Delays, lacking specified features, bad drivers, not so great performance from such a novel chip.. why does this carry all the characteristics of the PS3?

[DilTech]

Sure. Now after rereading your comment it could be understood that way as well.

Delays, lacking specified features, bad drivers, not so great performance from such a novel chip.. why does this carry all the characteristics of the PS3?

It looks as though the microsoft curse is true....

[cadaveca]

You mean to tell me that I am missing Xilleon as well as UVD???

NO, the Xilleon should have been the UVD integrated within the chip itself, or at least that was the plan.

Xilleon=UVD!

But UVD in r600 does not have to be Xilleon! Xilleon is current UVD tech already owned by AMD/ATI.

[fornowagain]

8.38 RC7 drivers were published yesterday to press and I tried decoding HD-DVD decoding with Radeon HD 2900 XT today. HD-DVD movie with H.264 codec was completely corrupted with Cyberlink PowerDVD and Avivo acceleration. With VC-1 HD-DVD movie CPU load dropped a little bit compared to 8.37 drivers (55 % -> 46%) but it's still alot worse than with 8800 Ultra and 8600 GTS (31 - 33 % CPU Load).

Do you have these RC7's, if you do any chance you could find a host for them?

[Eastcoasthandle]

I had a nice conversation with tech support. From what I am told Xilleon/UVD is integrated in the GPU. However, there is no driver that supports it yet. I asked him more then twice if that was accurate information. He appeared to be very sure about this. Only time will tell at this point.

[DilTech]

I had a nice conversation with tech support. From what I am told Xilleon/UVD is integrated in the GPU. However, there is no driver release as of yet. New Cat release is suppose to be this week.

So tech support is also going against the press release as well as Dave Baumann?

[BenchZowner]

I had a nice conversation with tech support. From what I am told Xilleon/UVD is integrated in the GPU. However, there is no driver that supports it yet. New Cat release is suppose to be this week. I asked and confirmed with him more then twice if that was accurate information. He appeared to be very sure about this. Only time will tell at this point.

Did you get this guy's name ?
Because if you didn't, you'll have no-one to blame

[XeRo]

I had a nice conversation with tech support. From what I am told Xilleon/UVD is integrated in the GPU. However, there is no driver that supports it yet. New Cat release is suppose to be this week. I asked and confirmed with him more then twice if that was accurate information. He appeared to be very sure about this. Only time will tell at this point.

AMD has assured us the problems we experienced will be fixed in the final release driver code. The 7.5 Catalyst are now due at the end of May

I read it from this article. I would take this to mean probably sometime next week is when we see the new driver.

[Eastcoasthandle]

So tech support is also going against the press release as well as Dave Baumann?

You have some places that say UVD does come with the video card while others say it doesn't. Also, is there a way to prove that Dave works for ATI with first hand knowledge about this?

[Eastcoasthandle]

Did you get this guy's name ?
Because if you didn't, you'll have no-one to blame

Yeah I got his name But hey, I am only going on information that I was told, don't hurt the messenger...

[DilTech]

You have some places that say UVD does come with the video card while others say it doesn't. Also, is there a way to prove that Dave works for ATI with first hand knowledge about this?

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=31585
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32647

Yes, we know Dave works for ATi.

Also, AMD's own press release states only the 2600 and 2300 have UVD, the 2900 lacks it.

[Eastcoasthandle]

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=31585
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32647

Yes, we know Dave works for ATi.

Also, AMD's own press release states only the 2600 and 2300 have UVD, the 2900 lacks it.

Not my problem at the moment I am going by what I am told by tech support.
I am going to wait and see if this all pans out or not.