stained tubing..

[dem1an]

I have a background in microbiology. I developed vaccines for five years for a living before my trek back into computers. I've grown my share of bacteria and cell culture. In a lab or in production, everything is sterilized prior to use. My feeling is that the only way to keep the liquid clear is start with sterile tubing and sterile rad etc and then use sterile techniques to add the water. In bio-development, we autoclaved everything and what we couldn't autoclave, we used a strong acid solution to sterilize the components.

Obviously most people don't have access to this kind of equipment, but I'm thinking if we flushed the system with something like parvosol first. We used an acid solution in the lab since it was easy enough to dilute and didn't risk killing the next thing we did want to grow. In this case, we could use something pretty toxic to anything. I'd be interested in whether this stuff would make for a good coolant. Do these ingredients look corrosive? If you didn't use the disinfectant to cool with, then you'd have to flush and fill the system with sterile water.

Active Ingredient(s):
n-Alkyl (60% C14, 30% C16, 5% C12, 5% C18) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides 0.105%
n-Alkyl (68% C12, 32% C14) dimethyl ethylbenzyl ammonium chlorides 0.105%
Inert Ingredients 99.790%
Total 100.000

http://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/cgi-l...html?E+scstore

It's actually not a bad color either.

On a side note, I'd be careful with cleaning your loops. If there are bugs growing in your loop, you should probably treat them as if they could hurt you.
Last edited by dem1an : Today at 01:16 PM.

[IanY]

I'm still with R3603. I have now reverted to plain distilled with two drops of iodine. I flush every month and it costs me less than a dollar to refill heh. The tubes have been there for 6 months now, but are no more cloudy than that new 2075 heh My case allows almost no light in.

[Fossil]

As I have the camera working for once...

Compare Tt green coolant: two different bottles of coolant, what's the difference?

One bottle contains much darker, more opaque liquid than the other. Different formula? Nope, they're both the same stuff, but one is diluted: the dark one!

The dark one is just coolant that I drained from my old loop - it's actually got a lot of pure distilled water in it, so when it went into the loop, it was actually lighter than the one on the left, but now it's darker.

[dinos22]

why is it so much darker

[JargonGR]

And now I feel the need to ask a simple question? (Sorry if it has been answered already). Does the clouding affect performance? I took out a short piece of Tygon from one of my 3 loops today that was cloudy and I found that if we have a way to scrab the white it will go off. I think I will try cleaning it but its not convenient at all so I might go the drainging method way too.

[halo112358]

I don't know how the 2275 compares to the 2075, but what's the point? If you are worrying about clouding and it looks horribly cloudy from the start, what are you accomplishing? The stuff I received from McMaster kinks more easily and scuffs more easily. Unless the 2275 is totally different, don't defend it just because you bought it... It's overpriced junk!

Hmm, I think you're misreading what I said. I'm not really worried about clouding, I'm more concerned that the white crud indicates some sort of breakdown of the tubing AND that the white gunk people are finding in high restriction blocks (clogged storm Jets, etc..) is related.

Really I'm just looking for something that's durable and works well. 3603 seems to work alright for me so far, and I'll try 2275 next...

edit: if you're not happy with a product you bought then send it back, don't bash me just because you bought it :wink:

why is it so much darker

I think the implication is that whatever clouds the tubing is coming out into the coolant, that would also explain the gunk in clogged blocks.

[dem1an]

I think the implication is that whatever clouds the tubing is coming out into the coolant, that would also explain the gunk in clogged blocks.

I assumed the cloudiness was from cell growth. I didn't think about it being a breakdown of the tubing. Does the cloudy coolant have a new funky odor? Cloudiness due to bacterial growth is usually pretty rank.

[Fossil]

There isn't much of an odor from the old coolant, it still smells mainly of glycol. Viewed close up you can make out some larger 'floaters' that look very much like bacterial slime colonies. Whatever is growing in there is tolerant to a fair percentage of Glycol.

A tiny amount of the grot might be from nickel oxide (from the plating on the barbs), and there could be some radiator flux in there too. It's not like any number of flushes are going to get it all out - but it's hard to imagine either of those things contributing that much cloud.

Just a theory, but with pure distilled "a few drops" of biocide aren't going to do anything worth mentioning to stop bacterial growth: these bugs are hard as nails.

[snowwie]

I personally like the rigidity compared to 3603. 3603 flattens easily and sags under the weight of a full loop. I got 2075/2275 a long time ago and liked it better but never posted it as the best new tubing because I knew most wcers wouldn't like it. to niksub (sp), for example, 3603 doesn't plumb like a wet noodle enough for him, he needs even softer stuff.

and of course it isn't as clear from the factory. personally, if looks are the most important, i think the cheap vinyl stuff from home depot is the clearest. for the first month (week?), at least. this stuff is probably best long term, but if long term is such an issue then you may as well get that stuff they use the apple g5 systems (billa mentioned it once).

sorry, guys, but the tubing issue is far from solved.

[halo112358]

Just a theory, but with pure distilled "a few drops" of biocide aren't going to do anything worth mentioning to stop bacterial growth: these bugs are hard as nails.

Try a capful maybe? I overdosed my current loop with biocide by accident (about a cap full instead of the recommended 1-2 drops) and I don't have any growth to speak of.

The loop gets a pretty good amount of sunlight too, the rad, res and pump are on my desk between my monitor and my machine (desk is between two windows) - granted, it's indirect sun, but it's still enough that I'd expect at least some growth.

[ranker]

I personally like the rigidity compared to 3603. 3603 flattens easily and sags under the weight of a full loop. I got 2075/2275 a long time ago and liked it better but never posted it as the best new tubing because I knew most wcers wouldn't like it. to niksub (sp), for example, 3603 doesn't plumb like a wet noodle enough for him, he needs even softer stuff.

and of course it isn't as clear from the factory. personally, if looks are the most important, i think the cheap vinyl stuff from home depot is the clearest. for the first month (week?), at least. this stuff is probably best long term, but if long term is such an issue then you may as well get that stuff they use the apple g5 systems (billa mentioned it once).

sorry, guys, but the tubing issue is far from solved.

Agreed. Still looking for tubing that's clear, resistant to growth, doesn't eat away at itself, and is reasonably cheap. I can't believe I paid 50$ for milky tubing.

[dem1an]

We need someone with access to a microscope to make a slide and look at it. I'm sure someone here is in college and has access to a scope. If it is microbiological growth, I'm sure we could make the coolant more unfriendly to bugs.

Any chemist types see any potential interaction problems with ammonium chloride based disinfectants such as parvosol (which is pretty cheap)? It looks like they make this stuff clear now. It used to be blue, so I don't see a problem with coloring it if it is now clear.

[halo112358]

Gentlemen, I give you:

new 3603, 3-month-old 3603 and new 2275



I'm fairly certain (I'd bet some $$ on it) that the clouding on the older 3603 is not biological growth, it's more likely surface breakdown.

filled:



(try and guess which parts are old 3603 and which are new 2275 :P)

[serialk11r]

There are PVC/PUR blends that should be a little less stiff, more clear, and less chemically resistant and abrasion resistant.

[Kurz]

Perhaps you could scale down your pictures before posting them...
ImageShack is so slow with sending out files that huge.

Need to find some tubing thats water resistant.
However... I am starting to think I rather just get some Opaque black tubing.
And sex it up with some lighting.

[GeoffP]

(try and guess which parts are old 3603 and which are new 2275 :P)

It's like picking chalk and cheese...

[halo112358]

3603 vs 2275, three weeks later:



The fresh 3603 is starting to yellow slightly and it's becoming slightly less clear, the 2275 appears the same as it did at installation.

[ranker]

3603 vs 2275, three weeks later:



The fresh 3603 is starting to yellow slightly and it's becoming slightly less clear, the 2275 appears the same as it did at installation.

My use of the 2075 has shown similar results. Although it's a milky white color to start with, it hasn't gotten cloudy or changed in color. However, I almost refuse to use it as the damn thing is so stiff it torques the barbs on pumps/blocks resulting in leaks if I move stuff around. It's a serious pain in the ass. I'm going to try to use a heatgun to "mold" the next batch I work with. Anyone have tips or insight on doing so?

BTW, I thought 2075 was the one meant for watercooling. What's the difference between 2275 and 2075?

[MetalZone]

Then it looks like we're back to square one for those who want "clear" and flexible.
has anyone checked out how clear these are?
tygon beverage tubing B-44-3
TYGON® 2001
and
http://www.professionalplastics.com/...eandreg-Tubing

Marci, looks like we need to specify more critereas to St Gobain (ie. flexibility and clarity), not just the type of coolants we use.

[Subsider]

Im using tygon beverage tubing B-44-3 was perfectly clear when i installed it and its still perfectly clear 3 + wks later. i suspect it will stay clear ! as i stated earlyer in this thread B-44-3 is non wetting wich meens nothing should be absorbed by the tubing . that should not only help keep it from clouding but make it very easy to clean when the time comes ......

[halo112358]

BTW, I thought 2075 was the one meant for watercooling. What's the difference between 2275 and 2075?

2275 is supposed to be even better about not contaminating fluids than 2075, that was my understanding anyway. I spent 15 minutes reading about both types and decided that an extra 10% cost was worth it if the tubing lasted a little bit longer... 10% extra is cheap if it means I have to change it less often

I agree with you that it's a real btich to work with, I used extra thread tape on all the barbs and cinched the tubing down with hose clamps. The extra work isn't terrible if you're expecting it but it's definitely not as easy as 3603. I wouldn't use zip ties or plastic clamps with this stuff.

[MetalZone]

Im using tygon beverage tubing B-44-3 was perfectly clear when i installed it and its still perfectly clear 3 + wks later. i suspect it will stay clear ! as i stated earlyer in this thread B-44-3 is non wetting wich meens nothing should be absorbed by the tubing . that should not only help keep it from clouding but make it very easy to clean when the time comes ......

sounds good. how's the flexibility compared to R3603?

[ranker]

sounds good. how's the flexibility compared to R3603?

Agreed. I care more about the flexibility than I do about how clear the tubing is. 2075 is obnoxiously stiff.

[Subsider]

sounds good. how's the flexibility compared to R3603?

seems to be very close to the same as 3603 maybe just a touch stiffer but def workable !

[ranker]

seems to be very close to the same as 3603 maybe just a touch stiffer but def workable !

Alright, I just placed a large order for 20ft of that tubing. If it's stiff, I'm going to find out where you live and demand my $90 back!


I just noticed that only Tygon 2075 matches R3603's bend radius... this is going to make the SLI loops hard with GPU only blocks