8600GT Performance Revealed...

[generics_user]

Hmm an x1950Pro for $170 even here with 20% VAT looks more and more appealing...

When will the first dx10 and dx10-only games appear? I think that will be a half-
generation of cards till then, and maybe something better will come along (like
X2800GTO or 8900GS).

you can get the 1950 pro for 125€ including 19% vat , same for the 7900 gs

the old gen rocks the new cards

and for those hoping DX10 games running better on these new cards, i doubt that they have the performance to display DX10 effects with reasonable performance at reasonable resolutions (1280x1024)

so yes, nvidia screwed it the same way as ati did it with the x16xx series

end of april will show what amds x26xx can do in this segment

[turtle]

[Rant=turtle]

First of all, I don't think I understand the complaining (aka b&m'ing) in this thread. Who was looking forward to the GT? Who was planning on buying the GT? Let's see, 3/4 the shaders, 3/4 the clock of GTS...crappy memory...at 3/4 the price. That's like saying you were looking forward to the 6600 vanilla, or the 7600gs. What did you expect? When the GTS looks like it will actually add playable settings and compete well with the last generation highend, just like the 6600gt and 7600gt before it, who can really complain? I wouldn't count it out yet.

Oh yeah, and Fuad says 8600gts is $199 MSRP, and I tend to completely believe it. It has to be to make sense versus the GTS 320.

That puts this card prolly at around $150 MSRP, IOW, prolly will be found for $130...Right where it belongs. It's not fair to compare this gen's established pricing versus MSRP of an expected part. We all know they will fall quickly and are never as high as planned except when inventory is low and demand is high (usually only in the very beginning). I agree with the dude whom said the GTS will be $160-180 relatively quickly, and at that price they will be probably $100 less than a 8800gts (A $299.99 card, which can be found for $270 now that it's saturated the market), where they should be, and worth their money. Sure, the GT looks crappy, but so did the compatible parts from generations before it. The only difference is they changed the suffix scheme so the crappy part has the suffix we used to all associate with greatness. GTS is the new GT. GT is the new vanilla. Vanilla sucks, and always has...Get used to the change. [/rant]

[vitaminc]

uh, so when will we be able to see how these cards perform under DX10 benchmarks?

None of the benchmarks are using DX10...

[perkam]

First of all, I don't think I understand the complaining (aka b&m'ing) in this thread. Who was looking forward to the GT?

I was...and thats surprisingly ignorant, coming from you Turtle.

What I can get for $150 or less:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133186
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102034
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102022

What I can get for $199 or less:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130074
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102075

Come April 17th, if the 8600 Series cannot match up to what is already available, Nvidia will have launched a crappy mainstream dx10 line-up.

Why? Cos all those with 8800s got herrendously superior dx9 performance with their cards...why should I be satisfied with dx10 cards in the mainstream losing to mainstream dx9 cards?

Would ppl who have an 8800GTX have bought it if it was marginally faster than a 7900gtx or x1950xtx ? Answer is an astounding No, so PLEASE don't preach to me about what i should be expecting and what I should not...I've had it with ppl defending companies for taking out crappy products...not to mention, all the info I have atm says these scores (at least the 3dMark scores) are reliable.

Perkam

[SpikeP]

I abgree with perkham here. results are poor, and being honest i can't see AMD/ATI doing any better either. also when i think of the mainstream,. the last good card i can think of was the 6600gt. All other good mainstream cards have ended up being defective high ends, which eliminates the point of producing a mainstream card.

Why not make the basis of the cards strong, and use less shaders. weaker in dx10 maybe, but will last you longer. anyways, a x1900 has 48 shaders and does just fine!

- Paul

[DZ1234]

It seems every generation has its' share of crappy mainstream cards. From my point of view, We're bound to see a weaker 8800 to replace them, hopefully as competitive as 6800GS and 7900GS some time ago.

[Cybercat]

@ Cybercat, the price range for the GTS is $200 to $250...and even at $200 it will be compared to the x1950pro 512mb, the 7900gt and the $210 X1950XT.

Hasn't that almost always been the case with graphics cards? I highly doubt it will go above $200. At that price, if you don't care about features, go with the X1950XT. Personally I have confidence the 8600GTS will keep toe-to-toe with the X1950XT, making the features the deciding factor. Unless of course all you care about is Prey and some outdated benchmarks.

yes and I also have a definite chance to release a graphics card that is faster than the 8800Ultra this year, however it is rather unlikely; Just like the bolded text that you posted

Well, I should have clarified I was talking about the mainstream segment. I was hoping the context that I said it in would make that clear.

[perkam]

Personally I have confidence the 8600GTS will keep toe-to-toe with the X1950XT

Good...thats real good



I will hold you to it tho. Check sig

Perkam

[kemo]

Hasn't that almost always been the case with graphics cards? I highly doubt it will go above $200. At that price, if you don't care about features, go with the X1950XT. Personally I have confidence the 8600GTS will keep toe-to-toe with the X1950XT, making the features the deciding factor. Unless of course all you care about is Prey and some outdated benchmarks.

Well, I should have clarified I was talking about the mainstream segment. I was hoping the context that I said it in would make that clear.

just an innocent question .
do you consider 3D mark 06 as an outdated benchmark because the X1950XT @ stock will beat the 8600GTS OC with ease and dont talk to me about the mods
PS the X1950XT sometimes even beat the 8800GTS 320 in some games

[nn_step]

just an innocent question .
do you consider 3D mark 06 as an outdated benchmark because the X1950XT @ stock will beat the 8600GTS OC with ease and dont talk to me about the mods
PS the X1950XT sometimes even beat the 8800GTS 320 in some games

Benchmarks always come second place to game play

[Cybercat]

Good...thats real good

http://www.hothardware.com/articleim...em908/Prey.png

I will hold you to it tho. Check sig

Perkam

Hey, if Prey is the only game you care about, then that's great for you, that means you don't have to wait for these cards to come out. You can just buy a last gen card now and be set for life.

just an innocent question .
do you consider 3D mark 06 as an outdated benchmark because the X1950XT @ stock will beat the 8600GTS OC with ease and dont talk to me about the mods
PS the X1950XT sometimes even beat the 8800GTS 320 in some games

3DMark06 outdated? Certainly not! Actually that's one of the areas the 8600GT impresses, it's around 40% faster than the 7600GT. Imagine what the GTS could do!

[perkam]

Hey, if Prey is the only game you care about, then that's great for you, that means you don't have to wait for these cards to come out. You can just buy a last gen card now and be set for life.

Heh...prey is the only one we can compare against atm...believe me, they'll be lots of game tested on the 17th and I'm hoping for MY own sanity that you win this bet

Perkam

[Cybercat]

Heh...prey is the only one we can compare against atm...believe me, they'll be lots of game tested on the 17th and I'm hoping for MY own sanity that you win this bet

Perkam

I look at NFS and smile. Wear that sig proudly, because like I said, I'm confident in that statement.

[J-Mag]

Yeah, Perkam is jumping to conclusions as usual...

http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_13340017/tm.htm

Maybe the rig used for these results didn't have a Silverstone PSU

[Cybercat]

Have I won already? :O

[J-Mag]

Have I won already? :O

Well I have no idea bout the credibility of this link, but if it is credible then I would say so.

Either way I am in your camp.

[Starscream]

im also in Cybercats camp.

but the benches in the link J-Mag posted.
i dunno if they are trustworthy as the 8600GTS beats the X1950 @ a res of 2560x1600 in half life 2.

is that possible with a 128bit bus?

i wish those benches r true but im having my doubts. if the benches ARE true then the GTS is a killer.

[perkam]

Yeah, Perkam is jumping to conclusions as usual...

http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_13340017/tm.htm

Maybe the rig used for these results didn't have a Silverstone PSU

I have two reasons for that site being fake, one of which I can say in public.

This is what Shamino got on his 8600GTS voltmodded, oced to 1ghz core and 2400 mem w/ an oced X6800:



And this is what Coolaler got with a stock GTS:



No flippin way a stock GTS is getting 8.5k...

Perkam

[turtle]

I was...and thats surprisingly ignorant, coming from you Turtle.

What I can get for $150 or less:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133186
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102034
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102022

What I can get for $199 or less:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130074
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102075

Come April 17th, if the 8600 Series cannot match up to what is already available, Nvidia will have launched a crappy mainstream dx10 line-up.

Why? Cos all those with 8800s got herrendously superior dx9 performance with their cards...why should I be satisfied with dx10 cards in the mainstream losing to mainstream dx9 cards?

Would ppl who have an 8800GTX have bought it if it was marginally faster than a 7900gtx or x1950xtx ? Answer is an astounding No, so PLEASE don't preach to me about what i should be expecting and what I should not...I've had it with ppl defending companies for taking out crappy products...not to mention, all the info I have atm says these scores (at least the 3dMark scores) are reliable.

Perkam

Didn't me to preach, apologies if it was taken that way. You should know by now it's never my intention to piss someone off. It's hardly an ignorant statement taken in context. I'm not telling you what you should expect, I'm saying history is repeating itself for the nth time. The position the GT is in has always been a less than stellar card from generation to generation compared to the depreciation of a high-end card from the last gen. The X600pro, the X1600, the 6600, the 7600gs. When those were released, there were cards available from the previous generation that provided better value, sometimes immensely, but perhaps not the feature set. Sometimes it even occurs with the refresh, like the instance of the x1800xt versus the x1900gt when it was first released. It is especially true now given how long some of the cards have been on the market, and the delay of the release of the new mid-range parts. That's just reality of the sitch. It's going to be especially true moving from DX9 to DX10, although a tougher pill to swallow. I agree it sucks.

In essence, I agree with DZ. The moment will come when these too are replaced by a 8800gs, or the like, and it will probably be a better value than the 9600gt, or whatever it is, when it comes around. I'm not making excuses for them at all, make no mistake...but I'm glad those parts do and will exist, as when they become available they are an excellent value, although certainly angering some for where they fall in the market both at release, and when the next mid-range comes around. There is only so much time though between product cycles, so many price brackets, and so many SKUs to hack from a limited number of original chips.

Personally, I think the 8600gts will go toe-to-toe with the x1950xt exactly as cybercat said, with the dx10 feature set giving it the victory, if not the DX9 benchmarks, which I expect to be close. The XT may win slightly, but was obviously meant to be in a more expensive bracket and be high-end DX9; I imagine it gets a reocurring single-digit framerate in DX10. The 86gts obviously is starting a new bar that can't be compared in that respect for this gen's midrange, because it is the first <$200 DX10 part; created for that purpose.

@3dmark06, I'd like to see where the stock x1950xt beats the overclocked 8600gts. I see ~7k from the GTS, ~6k stock, which is similar to the x1950xt, obviously the XT does a little better. Shader scores a few hundred less in both sm2 and sm3 for the XT when compared stock to GTS overclock.

EDIT: Yes, those 8600GTS benches are bunk.

One last thing:

...Perkam, can I have a hug?

[J-Mag]

No flippin way a stock GTS is getting 8.5k...

The link I posted claimed they ran '06 @ 1024x768 and Shamino was @ 1280x1024.

Whats your other reason?

[Fr3ak]

Keep in mind that we have no idea what cpu speed Shamino ran the cards with.
And unfortunately he is away for 3 weeks, so I cant ask :/

From 2.4ghz to like 4ghz will boost the score quite a bit, when I look at my 7300GTs in SLi that get similar results.

But 8.5k with a stock x6800 with the 8600Gts doesnt seem to be real in comparison to Shaminos and Coolalers benches.

Edit: Ok ignore what I wrote above. Since when does anyone run 3D Marks at non default resolution? Thats no good to compare it with default settings scores :/

[turtle]

Keep in mind that we have no idea what cpu speed Shamino ran the cards with.
And unfortunately he is away for 3 weeks, so I cant ask :/

Shammy benched at 2.8 and 3.2ghz. You can see it in the bench pics.

[Caparroz]

If this numbers are true, it can be a good thing. Just look at this/last gen.

ATI's TRUE mid-range cards were junk. ATI had to release something based on their high-end to be competitive and forced Nvidia to do the same. We had great cards in the $200 range last year: 1900gt, 1950pro/gt, 7900gs/gt. Those cards trounced both 7600gt and X16xx. That can happen again.

[Miwo]

I don't see this as a bad thing. Cheap mainstream DX10 cards will hopefully help push DX10 support in games. Its just like how Intel flooded the market with cheap dual-core 805's. It gives software developers more incentive to stop writing single threaded programs.

[[LCN]Knowledge]

I'm keeping my 7600GT, then i'll volt mod it and overclock it even more, and within six month i hope Nvidia and AMD come with some acceptable mid-range DX10 cards + good drivers... for God's sake.