1.6v safe for e6600?

[fhpchris]

I usually stick to 1.55v on air and 1.65v on water...

1.57v on air is fine, but 1.66-1.67v on water is NOT fine.

The further away you stay from 1.65 the better, 1.57 on good air is a decent ammount, but safe. A good chip will not even need 1.6+ on water.

[Getttosmurf]

Well, as close as 3.6 is, I'd rather not fry a 300$ chip for 200mhz. I'm not made of cash (High School Student) So this needs to last 2 year+. But I am at 9x380 with 1.5v 27idle / and was hitting 50 before orthos had a failure.

2 years then i wouldnt run 1.6v more like 1.45-1.5 but even then no one can promise it will last that long. even if you dont fry it it may well perform worse later on resulting in a lower oc at the sam vcore.

[PcCI2iminal]

24/7
i use 1.55v on top class air(geminii or infinity)

[dekruyter]

I think I, and a few others, were just trying to point out that:

- just because you remove the heat from the CPU at a rate greater than or equal to it's generation and your temps are under control and below what you might consider an acceptable temperature,

- does not mean that electromigration and degradation are not occuring.

The power (current) density itself, if increased beyond specifications by over-voltage, can cause material degradation (movement of atoms and ions).

More efficient removal of heat does not directly equate to "no" damage.

[nealh]

this was brought in some threads about a month ago...Intel tells you in the spec if you us eover 1.55v the chip will not be warranted to perform for an extended period of time and if you lower back into spec it may not run normally or as expected

I really like 3500 but I am worried about 1.52v on WCing....

I keep debating on whenther i should drop back to 3455

[CedricFP]

I think I, and a few others, were just trying to point out that:

- just because you remove the heat from the CPU at a rate greater than or equal to it's generation and your temps are under control and below what you might consider an acceptable temperature,

- does not mean that electromigration and degradation are not occuring.

The power (current) density itself, if increased beyond specifications by over-voltage, can cause material degradation (movement of atoms and ions).

More efficient removal of heat does not directly equate to "no" damage.

Yes but electromigration doesn't simply occur in days or months... it takes longer.

Also, removing heat helps to prevent degradation of the cpu, no doubt.

[nealh]

Yes but electromigration doesn't simply occur in days or months... it takes longer.

Also, removing heat helps to prevent degradation of the cpu, no doubt.

the slow death/degradation of C2D chips may very well occur but reports are very sporadic..and in general initial stability is no always well documented, which I feel is very important on this issue...easy t osay I a mstable at X speed with very minimal testing then in couple of months have an issue abd say the chip is failing

Northwood deaths were very clear and tons of reports

[sreedx2]

I run my E6600 at 3.6ghz with 1.53 Vcore ? on water load never over 50C.. I purchased another conroe, it was one of the newer batches and it did not overclock well so I am happy with what I have now

[Death^Dread]

I'm afraid to push my E6300 past 1.45V. It does about 3.1 orthos stable at stock voltage, then requires great increases in voltage for anything very much higher. It can boot at 3.5 or even 3.6, but won't last half a second of orthos even at 1.55 (which I ran for a few minutes, but would never consider for much longer than benching). Right now I'm trying to see the minimum voltage with which it will run stable at 3.15, and I will knock that back up one notch to ensure stability. No tribble at all with idle/load temps with my Scythe Mine (the IHS on my proccy was very flat, unlike many horror stories about some of the C2Ds, and the Mine was very flat and mirror-shiny).

What would you guys recommend as a safe maximum (not, as people like to say, "absolute max"; rather something that'll let this sucker last 2+ years) for 24/7 voltage?

[Blacklash]

I'd say 1.45v-1.55v on aftermarket air cooling. I won't go above 1.55v on air for 24/7 myself. I can bench up to 3.9 on 1.6v and I only do it for a brief time.

[theteamaqua]

doesnt really matter .. even 1.45v during full load = 1.5+v set in bios can degrade ur CPU over months ... say 3 to 6 months ...

many people have report that their CPU was stable orthos 24hrs when they bought it , but 4,5 months later it isnt.... after 1.45+v 24/7 ...

it depends on ur cooling as well .. keep the temp below 50C or near 50C helps it degrade slower .. i guess

to get E6600 3.6GHz orthos stable ... it needs at least around 1.45v during full load with decent aircooling (or 1.5+v set in bios for most boards) for MOST of the E6600's (check oveclocking database) (yes there r chips can do that for <1.4v but rare)

and yes water do allow a bit higher vcore compare to air such that the 2 degrades the same in the same period

so i dunno ... if u upgrade often say 3 months cycle .. go for 1.6v as it prolly wont matter after 3 months .. might degrade a bit

i had an E6400 (i have E6600 now) i used to run it 3.4GHz @ 1.59v set in bios ... 1.56v idle , 1.54v full load ... it degrade a bit .. the same 1.59v set in bios wont get it over 415fsb or 3.32GHz .. right now its stable @ 3.28GHz 410fsb. it degrade about 120Mhz over about 6 months @ 1.59v set in bios. lol 15fsb, but that CPU had 425fsb wall anyway..
Edit: i had E6400 + DS3 + Bigtyphoon with 120CFM fan ... about the same as tower 120 .. temps were 65C load i think

thats jsut my experience ... i did changed bios and stuff though ... for a couple months i did ran it on 975XBX with 1.59v set in bios , too. then i changed back to DS3

chances r if u set 1.6v in bios ur getting 1.57v idle , 1.55v load .... and from my experience.. it WILL degrade ,

but ummm ... well as long as u keep ur temps below 70C @ load i think ur good ... i think its safe to say that any vcore above default WILL degrade ur CPU, the difference is how long.

EDIT:
as for CPU jsut completely dead like Northwood .. i really dont think its gonna hapnend to anyone, again it will degrade.. but not dead

[nealh]

I run my E6600 at 3.6ghz with 1.53 Vcore ? on water load never over 50C.. I purchased another conroe, it was one of the newer batches and it did not overclock well so I am happy with what I have now

whats your water cooling setup and ambients...I got 53C at full load via coretemp, lower on TAT, slightly higher on SG..during 26 hrs of blend prime95(ambients were 23/24C..cool for me..in the summer my ambients will be 26C..so temps will be higher)

doesnt really matter .. even 1.45v during full load = 1.5+v set in bios can degrade ur CPU over months ... say 3 to 6 months ...

many people have report that their CPU was stable orthos 24hrs when they bought it , but 4,5 months later it isnt.... after 1.45+v 24/7 ...

it depends on ur cooling as well .. keep the temp below 50C or near 50C helps it degrade slower .. i guess

and yes water do allow a bit higher vcore compare to air such that the 2 degrades the same in the same period

so i dunno ... if u upgrade often say 3 months cycle .. go for 1.6v as it prolly wont matter after 3 months .. might degrade a bit

thats jsut my experience ... i did changed bios and stuff though ... for a couple months i did ran it on 975XBX with 1.59v set in bios , too. then i changed back to DS3

chances r if u set 1.6v in bios ur getting 1.57v idle , 1.55v load .... and from my experience.. it WILL degrade ,

but ummm ... well as long as u keep ur temps below 70C @ load i think ur good ... i think its safe to say that any vcore above default WILL degrade ur CPU, the difference is how long.

First nobody knows if the issues are mobo related..in all cases we are pushing the mobo fsb 40%-50% or much higher over stock with increased NB voltages

Second, I still have no seen the reports where people were 24 hr P95 stable and saw degradation....dont forget anything you install can and may affect stability...

But with that said Intel's papers are clear 1.55v is max vcore and will lead to damage over time if used, not sure how long and if and when you return to spec(?? again not sure if there refer to stock voltage or some lower increased value) stock speeds maybe not be stable)

I do believe there will be a slow death to all processors even at stock(esp if you see some of the temps on the stock coolers) but when is the question...

does my setup with watercooling get 3mo, 6mo, 1yr..etc who knows...my setup is on 18hrs/a day on weekend, 12hrs on weekdays...max

Run the speed you want at the vcore you feel is safe for how long you want the processor....I think I good cooling staying under 1.55v will shorten life..

safe 1.45v(about 10%) should give you years...I used to believe 15%(maybe 20%) or less although some feel the smaller die size means this rule may no longer hold true

Intel papers..pdf file
http://developer.intel.com/design/pr...hts/313278.htm

Intel Core 2 Duo Desktop Processor E6000 Sequence – Datasheet
http://developer.intel.com/design/pr...hts/313278.htm

2.6.1 Absolute Maximum and Minimum Ratings

Table 4 specifies absolute maximum and minimum ratings only and lie outside the functional limits of the processor. Within functional operation limits, functionality and long-term reliability can be expected.
At conditions outside functional operation condition limits, but within absolute maximum and minimum ratings, neither functionality nor long-term reliability can be expected. If a device is returned to conditions within functional operation limits after having been subjected to conditions outside these limits, but within the absolute maximum and minimum ratings, the device may be functional, but with its lifetime degraded depending on exposure to conditions exceeding the functional operation condition limits.
At conditions exceeding absolute maximum and minimum ratings, neither functionality nor long-term reliability can be expected. Moreover, if a device is subjected to these conditions for any length of time then, when returned to conditions within the functional operating condition limits, it will either not function, or its reliability will be severely degraded.
Although the processor contains protective circuitry to resist damage from static electric discharge, precautions should always be taken to avoid high static voltages or electric fields.

Table 4. Absolute Maximum and Minimum Ratings
VCC (Core voltage with respect to VSS) –0.3V / 1.55V (Min/Max)
VTT (FSB termination voltage with respect to VSS) –0.3V / 1.55V (Min/Max)

Notes:
For functional operation, all processor electrical, signal quality, mechanical and thermal specifications must be satisfied.
Excessive overshoot or undershoot on any signal will likely result in permanent damage to the processor.

2.6.2 DC Voltage and Current Specification

Table 5. Voltage and Current Specifications
VID (Range of VID) 0.8500V / - / 1.5V (Min/Typ/Max)
VCC (Supply Voltage) - / - / 1.5V (Min/Typ/Max)
VTT (FSB termination voltage) 1.14V / 1.20V / 1.26V (Min/Typ/Max)

Notes:
Adherence to the voltage specifications for the processor are required to ensure reliable processor operation.
Each processor is programmed with a maximum valid voltage identification value (VID), which is set at manufacturing and can not be altered. Individual maximum VID values are calibrated during manufacturing such that two processors at the same frequency may have different settings within the VID range.



Intel 965 Express Chipset Family - Datasheet
http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets...hts/313053.htm


11.1 Absolute Minimum and Maximum Ratings

Table 10-1. Absolute Minimum and Maximum Ratings
VCC (1.5 V Core voltage with respect to VSS) –0.3V / 1.375V (Min/Max)
VTT (System Bus Input Voltage with respect to VSS) –0.3V / 1.32V (Min/Max)

11.3.1 I/O Buffer Supply Voltage

Table 11.4 I/O Buffer Supply Voltage
VCC (MCH Core Supply Voltage) 1.188V / 1.25V / 1.313V (Min/Typ/Max)
VTT (System Bus Input Supply Voltage) 1.14V / 1.20V / 1.26V (Min/Typ/Max)



Intel 975X Express Chipset MCH - Datasheet
http://developer.intel.com/design/ch...hts/310158.htm

10.1 Absolute Minimum and Maximum Ratings

Table 10-1. Absolute Minimum and Maximum Ratings
VCC (1.5 V Core voltage with respect to VSS) –0.3V / 1.65V (Min/Max)
VTT (System Bus Input Voltage with respect to VSS) –0.3V / 1.65V (Min/Max)

10.4 DC Characteristics

Table 10-5. DC Characteristics
VCC (MCH Core Supply Voltage) 1.425V / 1.50V / 1.575V (Min/Typ/Max)
VTT (System Bus Input Supply Voltage) 1.14V / 1.20V / 1.26V (Min/Typ/Max)


the notes for absolute minimum and maximum ratings on top of this post, holds true for chipset voltages also!

[nealh]

2.6.1 Absolute Maximum and Minimum Ratings

Table 4 specifies absolute maximum and minimum ratings only and lie outside the functional limits of the processor. Within functional operation limits, functionality and long-term reliability can be expected.
At conditions outside functional operation condition limits, but within absolute maximum and minimum ratings, neither functionality nor long-term reliability can be expected. If a device is returned to conditions within functional operation limits after having been subjected to conditions outside these limits, but within the absolute maximum and minimum ratings, the device may be functional, but with its lifetime degraded depending on exposure to conditions exceeding the functional operation condition limits.
At conditions exceeding absolute maximum and minimum ratings, neither functionality nor long-term reliability can be expected. Moreover, if a device is subjected to these conditions for any length of time then, when returned to conditions within the functional operating condition limits, it will either not function, or its reliability will be severely degraded.
Although the processor contains protective circuitry to resist damage from static electric discharge, precautions should always be taken to avoid high static voltages or electric fields.

Table 4. Absolute Maximum and Minimum Ratings
VCC (Core voltage with respect to VSS) –0.3V / 1.55V (Min/Max)
VTT (FSB termination voltage with respect to VSS) –0.3V / 1.55V (Min/Max)

Notes:
For functional operation, all processor electrical, signal quality, mechanical and thermal specifications must be satisfied.
Excessive overshoot or undershoot on any signal will likely result in permanent damage to the processor.

2.6.2 DC Voltage and Current Specification

Table 5. Voltage and Current Specifications
VID (Range of VID) 0.8500V / - / 1.5V (Min/Typ/Max)
VCC (Supply Voltage) - / - / 1.5V (Min/Typ/Max)
VTT (FSB termination voltage) 1.14V / 1.20V / 1.26V (Min/Typ/Max)

Notes:
Adherence to the voltage specifications for the processor are required to ensure reliable processor operation.
Each processor is programmed with a maximum valid voltage identification value (VID), which is set at manufacturing and can not be altered. Individual maximum VID values are calibrated during manufacturing such that two processors at the same frequency may have different settings within the VID range.

I find the fact Intel does not list a typical vcore on the C2D as interesting and the max VTT as being 1.26...hmm..will need to see if I can lower this value too

[Khaotic]

Well- my Xeon 3060 'was' a good clocker. But, as someone else mentioned - I did use slightly higher voltages on my Strike Extreme Motherboard. Up until yesterday, my 3060 would run fine with 1.45 volts at 3400MHz. Now, I can't move to anything above default. Mhz
My motherboard votlages were:
1.2 HT @ 1.3
NB @ 1.4
SB @ 1.55
VTT @ 1.4

I can still raise those and get to the Windows Vista 64-bit desktop, but i move the front side bus up any, I either get lock-up or BSoD before desktop.

[ziddey]

I like that datasheet a whole lot. And it really makes me wonder. Most of us are running around with vmch > 1.4v on p965. In fact, on my p5b, when I set to stock 1.25v, if I measure vmch with dmm, I measure 1.400. Hmm........

[Khaotic]

Well, i'm not sure now if my problem is the CPU or the baord. So, i'm going to starta new thread to avoid jacking this one.

[rvd]

Very informative.

[theteamaqua]

whats your water cooling setup and ambients...I got 53C at full load via coretemp, lower on TAT, slightly higher on SG..during 26 hrs of blend prime95(ambients were 23/24C..cool for me..in the summer my ambients will be 26C..so temps will be higher)

no its not mobo related .. i have DS3 , EVGA 680i , 975XBX ... and believe me 1.59v set in bios on any board wont get it over 415fsb bootable .. where it used to be 425fsb bootable 6 months ago when i bought it .. again its very stable @ 410fsb .. even the EVGA 680i i jsut bought last month ...

as for anything installed ... welll i only have 1 8800GTS right now , and i had 7800GTX installed (and yes during the time when i switched from 7800GTX to 8800GTS i saw no lose in overclockng) .. a network calble, mouse , keyboard , WD2500JS HDD ... thats all i have plugged into the comp same as 6 months ago .. again if a CPU cant boot @ certain speed due to fsb wall ... not much u can do about it ...

[Khaotic]

Change to the change.

The problem was neither my CPU nor the motherboard. But bad RAM.

To make a long story short: I wasn't taking everything into consideration.

[kiwi]

Those people who see their C2D degrading please report in the thread (there was somewhere in Intel section). However, you would need another high end setup to actually verify this since it might be any other component failing.

[mele]

My 6800 has been runing fine @ 1.5625 going on 6 months now.

Mel

[GNU]

My CPU E6600 need 1,42 to get 3600Mhz stable. It's watercooled good or bad?

[adamsleath]

yep 1.5vcore is as far as i would go with the tuniq. ...but i'm in rather a hot climate at times.

i'm now at 3.4ghz at 1.44v....my chippie just isnt 100&#37; rock solid stable at 3.6 maybe with better cooling....
0402 bios i only need 1.32v for 3.4...

in winter i'd happily run 1.5+v

[psy4fun]

Bad, very bad...



Follow my recommendation quickly: sell it to me () and buy a new one to you ()!

My CPU E6600 need 1,42 to get 3600Mhz stable. It's watercooled good or bad?

[John600rr]

1.6V for 8 months and counting on air here. Not a single problem.