Apogee GTX

[Bun-Bun]

Aww man, you guys just give it a rest. You aren't the ones buying the GTX, so stop complaining and bickering!

Ok...

I thought you didn't post after work

[Plywood99]

Aww man, you guys just give it a rest. You aren't the ones buying the GTX, so stop complaining and bickering!

Actually, looking for a cpu block now. Been using my homemade ones for some time, but I need something small and compact like the 1u block from Swiftech. Too lazy to make my own again...


ply

[Bun-Bun]

Even if it starts rusting, it'll happen more than a year from now. By then, I would have had the block opened two to three times and would have changed water at least 10 times. Its a non-issue.

Granted you change a lot more then Marci did, Marci still had problems with regular changes.

And I would rather not tear down the loop just to open the block because I'm worried about corrosion.

[serialk11r]

I'm used to it. I opened up my Storm blocks every three months without fail. I changed my tubing every six months. Part and parcel of the hobby.

You gotta start getting some 1 inch barbs and 1 inch wire reinforced polyurethane tubes!

[Philly_Boy]

Will everyone please stop this about the plating? I was in the military. Mil spec plating can run in a loop for 10+ years with no issue as long as the plating process is consistant. Please folks...I will close this thread if this bickering continues.

When it comes down to it at the end of the day the GTX for most of us who own AMD or a "E" series C2D will see less than 1c difference in temps between the GT and the GTX. And that's with a perfectly mounted block on a lapped CPU. Some...prolly most...will not see any difference. Only when you take a Kentsfield (QX6700, Q6600 or the Xeon X3210, X3220 or X3230) and run the vcore up past 1.55-1.6 volts and clock it up to really heat things up will the differences widen a bit to be approx 1c-1.5c. I know this for fact....

To get a significantly higher CPU clock you'd need to lower your temps by 10-12c. I did this with my cold air induction box and saw significantly better temps from the colder air cooling the water to 5-6c below room ambient.

OK, let the mountain of disagreement commence......lol!

[serialk11r]

Will everyone please stop this about the plating? I was in the military. Mil spec plating can run in a loop for 10+ years with no issue as long as the plating process is consistant. Please folks...I will close this thread if this bickering continues.

When it comes down to it at the end of the day the GTX for most of us who own AMD or a "E" series C2D will see less than 1c difference in temps between the GT and the GTX. And that's with a perfectly mounted block on a lapped CPU. Some...prolly most...will not see any difference. Only when you take a Kentsfield (QX6700, Q6600 or the Xeon X3210, X3220 or X3230) and run the vcore up past 1.55-1.6 volts and clock it up to really heat things up will the differences widen a bit to be approx 1c-1.5c. I know this for fact....

To get a significantly higher CPU clock you'd need to lower your temps by 10-12c. I did this with my cold air induction box and saw significantly better temps from the colder air cooling the water to 5-6c below room ambient.

OK, let the mountain of disagreement commence......lol!

I still don't understand why the aluminum is there but oh well...
I don't see how the plating could ever encounter enough friction to get rubbed off anyways.

[Fossil]

I went back and took another look at the specs for the housing of the GTX.

1) There's a 5 year limited warranty, the limitations are: mechanical damage(s), die discoloration.

2) The plating is two layer zinc-cobalt and nickel, presumably the zinc-cobalt is the layer closest to the Alu because they would want the shiny nickel on the outside.

There's a code number for the zinc-cobalt plating but I didn't have much success getting any info on it. Perhaps someone with more time might do better.

There are patents for highly sophisticated, galvanic corrosion platings of this dual layer type (strictly triple layer platings as I understand it as there is also a raw zinc layer) with these metals, so it's possible, even likely that Swiftech have gone that way. Under ideal conditions zinc plating would protect Alu even if scratched or damaged, I'm not entirely sure if the zinc-cobalt + nickel would perform as well, but zinc-plating of Alu is a very well established technique and has worked for the auto industry, construction, piping and electronic devices in the past.

It's not risk of corrosion that would put me off this product, but the fact it offers no obvious benefit over the FuZion I have on order

[gabe]

It's not risk of corrosion that would put me off this product, but the fact it offers no obvious benefit over the FuZion I have on order

here is the plating treatment sequence :

Wash/degrease
Caustic Etch
Acid Etch
De-oxydizer
Zincate primer
Electroless Nickel plating 12 micron
Zinc-cobalt plating 6 micron
Black die

[serialk11r]

Gabe may I ask what the aluminum is for? The "heatsink" obviously won't be doing much cooling. It seems as if you guys were trying to come up with a cheap way to make a metal top...which doesn't make any sense, given that the block is 75 dollars.

[SiGfever]

A five year warranty, heck I could not go that long without wanting to change something. When everything is running smooth for me it gets boring. The way that our industry is moving with new toys coming out almost daily it is an addict's dream.

[serialk11r]

A five year warranty, heck I could not go that long without wanting to change something. When everything is running smooth for me it gets boring. The way that our industry is moving with new toys coming out almost daily it is an addict's dream.

Yea, I have a feeling that after I get all this junk I have finished, up and running, I'll get bored real fast.

[Bun-Bun]

Gabe may I ask what the aluminum is for? The "heatsink" obviously won't be doing much cooling. It seems as if you guys were trying to come up with a cheap way to make a metal top...which doesn't make any sense, given that the block is 75 dollars.

Exactly, and its not even worth it to chance it because there is little to no performance gain. Why bother going through the trouble of military spec plating when you could just use a different material. Ooh we can use expensive manufacturing methods and raise the price for next to no performance gain yet ditch the Storm due to higher production costs... And I wasn't referring to plating rubbing off. I was referring to defects.

Gabe, as long as you keep an aluminum free block, I will still think highly of your company.

[gabe]

Gabe may I ask what the aluminum is for?

I could justify this choice with 3 pages of technical explanations, but in final analysis: because I liked it! It's that simple.

And since I always put my money were my mouth is, the block is covered by a 5 year warranty.

We have been criticized in the past because we don't follow the bling trends (plexi tops etc..). I wanted to make something really beautiful, not bling, beautiful. So, while I do understand that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I also know that the proud owners of this block will be tempted to keep their case opened, just so that they can keep admiring it!

[nealh]

I could justify this choice with 3 pages of technical explanations, but in final analysis: because I liked it! It's that simple.

And since I always put my money were my mouth is, the block is covered by a 5 year warranty.
We have been criticized in the past because we don't follow the bling trends (plexi tops etc..). I wanted to make something really beautiful, not bling, beautiful. So, while I do understand that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I also know that the proud owners of this block will be tempted to keep their case opened, just so that they can keep admiring it!

I am not concerned about the block but what if there is an issue with corrison..is Swiftech going to replace the other components of course not

I am not going to argue regarding the plating mechanism and how well it works/last..I have seen several examples from members were the plating did not last...it look awful the corrison

I bought all Swiftech blocks Storm rev2(I love this block), MCW60....and MCP655 pump(great pump BTW)

1 month after I bought my MCW60..you changed the mounting plate and made installation process supposedly easier...my MCW60 is a total to install on my videocards...I need eight hands to do it

BTW..why not use metal barbs on all the blocks..the plastic barbs are a pain to get tubing on...

I will pass on this block

[Bun-Bun]

I could justify this choice with 3 pages of technical explanations, but in final analysis: because I liked it! It's that simple.

And since I always put my money were my mouth is, the block is covered by a 5 year warranty.

We have been criticized in the past because we don't follow the bling trends (plexi tops etc..). I wanted to make something really beautiful, not bling, beautiful. So, while I do understand that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I also know that the proud owners of this block will be tempted to keep their case opened, just so that they can keep admiring it!

You say you don't follow bling trends... what do you call a revision of a block that is basically all for looks? I consider that following the hugest trend out there. I am sorry but you just lost a lot of credibility with me on that statement.

Not to mention you could have achieved the same thing with a different material then aluminum and we would not even be having this discussion.

I will admit that when I first looked at it I wanted it because I thought it was an awesome looking block. But then I found out the top was aluminum.

I am not concerned about the block but what if there is an issue with corrison..is Swiftech going to replace the other components of course not

...

I will pass on this block

I agree 110%

If Gabe agrees to replace my $6500 computer plus supplement me for my hours of modding that I put into it in the event that my loop corrodes and destroys my computer... then we will talk.

Put your money where your mouth is.

[serialk11r]

Okay...... So you chose aluminum just because you like the idea that it will dissipate like a few watts of heat and it looks nice?
I liked the looks of the other swiftech blocks better...and they didn't look all that great in the first place.
I think the issue isn't with corrosion. But I would've liked a brass top or something much more. EDITED FOR CONTENT-PB

[Bun-Bun]

Can you guys just show some courtesy, if not respect? Even if you don't like this block, a certain portion of people. including myself do. In any event, you are talking to the chief executive of one of the foremost computer cooling companies in the industry. Some decorum would be good.

I am not putting myself on top of a moral pedestal, but honestly.... and I'm going to speak my damn mind anyway because its not my style to shut up... !!!

The bottom line is you are one consumer in the market of multiple of thousands..
The market will dictate whether the block is a success or a failure, and I will be among the multitudes who will purchase ..actually, my first purchase batch is scheduled to arrive either tomorrow or Friday.

I bought two to begin, and will buy a couple more. I didn't buy them because of how they look. I could care less how they look, or how anything else looks in my computer for that matter. I bought them because they are the pinnacle of performance and even more so than the Apogee GT. I look forward to handing over some posteriors on a platter.

I am amazed Iany. Gabe basically just said that he made this block based on looks. And you of all people are not challenging that. Or maybe you did earlier and I just don't remember...

I give respect where respect is due. I could care less who anyone is or how much money they have. We asked a question and his answer was less then satisfying.

If he would come out and say his reasoning is to gain more market share... then so be it. I know what this capitalistic world is like. I can respect what it takes to bring more money into the company. In the end thats good for us cause that means Gabe will continue to make excellent water cooling components for many years on.

And the block probably will sell but it is the principal of the thing. And If I were him, I would care what those in the enthusiasts crowd (especially on one of the larger forums) would think.

If he really wanted to impress... he would have made the top out of platinum

[MaxxxRacer]

I could justify this choice with 3 pages of technical explanations, but in final analysis: because I liked it! It's that simple.

And since I always put my money were my mouth is, the block is covered by a 5 year warranty.

We have been criticized in the past because we don't follow the bling trends (plexi tops etc..). I wanted to make something really beautiful, not bling, beautiful. So, while I do understand that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I also know that the proud owners of this block will be tempted to keep their case opened, just so that they can keep admiring it!

Thankyou for being forthcoming with this information. It does clear up a few things.

Gabe, would nickel plated brass be more expensive?

[Bun-Bun]

He did say that he produced his block with one of the bases being appearances. If that sells blocks then all power to Swiftech, which incidently is a public corporation, and it is Mr. Rouchon's responsibility as chairman of the board of directors and chief executive officer to maximize returns for his shareholders.

I am just saying that my interest in the block is entirely devoid of appearances as a factor. I could care less if the block looked like the royal crown jewels or a collection of canine turd. I'm interested solely in its performance, especially the new placement of the barbs. In fact, since I do not like metal barbs, I may consider switching them out for standard plastic barbs.

What should I challenge him about? The use of an aluminum top? He's already provided answers addressing the quality of the plating and his rationale for doing so. I find his answers agreeable, and I'm sorry that you don't find it "satisfying." I'll just leave it at that.

Who says that he doesn't care what enthusiasts think? What am I? Chopped liver?!? Let's see. My collection of Swiftech cpu blocks... cpu blocks alone.. not gpu.. not chipset... will fill two shoe boxes. I believe that the Apogee GTX is fundamentally an excellent block, one of the best, if not the best cpu block.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me, not a single individual. You know what? I really don't care what anyone thinks... not a single person, no matter who... I am who I am and I make my own buying decisions. I'll exercise my power as a consumer. I don't sway with public opinion like grass in the wind...

Oooo.. Cathar... Marci... Petra... BillAdams... Nikhsub1... Vapor... PhillyBoy... what do you think I should buy? Please please please... tell me what I should buy... give me a break... have a backbone, people..

And if I should not be part of this forum, tell me straight up and it'll be my pleasure to exit the stage via the left stairwell.

This whole irreverance is really really pi$$ing me off.

Well said. I agree with the space between the barb placement. Makes things much easier and gives a performance edge.

What I was refering to with the you challenging him is his reasoning behind the choice of aluminum.

And you owning a large amount of swiftech blocks does not show that he cares about what you think. Just that you for whatever reasoning you have like the blocks that have been produced. Could have been pure conincedence although I highly doubt it based on the running record of swiftech.

[situman]

I don't expect anyone to agree with me, not a single individual. You know what? I really don't care what anyone thinks... not a single person, no matter who... I am who I am and I make my own buying decisions. I'll exercise my power as a consumer. I don't sway with public opinion like grass in the wind...

Oooo.. Cathar... Marci... Petra... BillAdams... Nikhsub1... Vapor... PhillyBoy... what do you think I should buy? Please please please... tell me what I should buy... give me a break... have a backbone, people..

If you don't care what everyone else thinks you wouldn't be here posting about how you feel about this and that or challenging other people's opinions.

With regards to showing respect, who do you think designed one of the most successful CPU waterblocks Swiftech ever made? Maybe all those people you insulted actually knows something.

[Bun-Bun]

Gabe, would nickel plated brass be more expensive?

Now theres a material that is widely used already in watercooling and would be much easier accepted.

[ramenchef]

I don't even see why bun-bun brought up the issue of replacing the whole computer. corrosion doesn't destroy your entire computer, just ruins the cooling. And if you keep a good eye on your loop like anyone should to check for any possible problems like corrosion and algae, then you should have little damage done if it ever did manage to get through the plating.

Also, the person who mentioned people who ended up with corrosion even with plating, check your sources again. They had anodized aluminum not plated aluminum there is a big difference.

Another point, there is a difference between beauty and bling. Gabe chose to design something that looked beautiful but not blingy in his eyes. As he said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I for one love the look of the GTX.

[Bun-Bun]

I don't even see why bun-bun brought up the issue of replacing the whole computer. corrosion doesn't destroy your entire computer, just ruins the cooling. And if you keep a good eye on your loop like anyone should to check for any possible problems like corrosion and algae, then you should have little damage done if it ever did manage to get through the plating.

Also, the person who mentioned people who ended up with corrosion even with plating, check your sources again. They had anodized aluminum not plated aluminum there is a big difference.

Another point, there is a difference between beauty and bling. Gabe chose to design something that looked beautiful but not blingy in his eyes. As he said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I for one love the look of the GTX.

To make a point with a radical example. I know full well that with proper care that should never come close to happening but the point was if Gabe was really putting his money where his mouth is he would not just garentee his block but all other components affected by it.

can't we all just stop fighting and make up..I'm feeling all empty inside and need a hug.

andyc

*hug*

[LORD-eX-Bu]

Gabe why didn't you release this a couple of weeks earlier when I purchased my Apogee GT

[gabe]

Thankyou for being forthcoming with this information. It does clear up a few things.

Gabe, would nickel plated brass be more expensive?

Yes. Plating is ~the same, but raw material is 2 1/2 times more than Aluminum. Nonetheless, while cost must remain a factor, it is never the primary factor to me. I founded Swiftech on three principles: Performance Quality & Value. This block epitomizes all three principles in my mind.