Is anodized aluminum that bad when mixed with copper?

[Fairydust]

Nice link,

I see what "OAT" is as described, but not what "HOAT" is. Am I missing something, very intersting none the less.

thanks,

andyc

HOAT is a silicate-OAT hybrid, it is mentioned in the link, but not by its abbreviation, my oversight sorry.

P.S. : G11, G12, G12+ have biocides inside, I haven't had any contamination issues ( or other) in 5 years of use.

[DMN]

Here is an example of what happens if you mix copper and aluminium in one setup with just water:



That is after only 1 year. Picture is taken after cleaning of the part. Before cleaning, all components were covered in a 5mm thick layer of brown stuff.
So that's the risk of two different materials in 1 setup. Maybe this wouldn't have been so bad if I had used engine coolant or something similar.

[Gabriel Noraa]

Even if you feel like you can trust a companies anodized aluminum, take a look to what happened to my dual Swiftech MCW5000s (copper base / alu top).



And check the interior of the BIX I , that was also in the same loop as the blocks.



I was using 90% H2O + 10% Engine Coolant.

For me, mixing Aluminium and Copper/Bras in the same loop it's totally forbiden. Never again.

[IanY]

Between a Thermoochill radiator, a Laing pump and supposed copper waterblocks, how sure are we that there is absolutely zero aluminum in the loop? if there's really no aluminum, then why is there a need to use antifreeze additive? Plain distilled should do, right?

[Marci]

Between a Thermoochill radiator, a Laing pump and supposed copper waterblocks, how sure are we that there is absolutely zero aluminum in the loop?

100% if using D-Tek FuZion, DangerDen RBX or TDX, or Swiftech MCW6000 & Later (Apo, G4, ApoGT series blocks), Laing D4 thru DDC+, and any ThermoChill rad...

[Fairydust]

...
I was using 90% H2O + 10% Engine Coolant.

What coolant was that?

[Marci]

And check the interior of the BIX I , that was also in the same loop as the blocks.

Hard to tell what's solder and what isn't there...

My Swiftech blocks all ended up the same as yours despite running 10% Zerex / 90% distilled and flushing/refilling with fresh mixture every 6 months... MCW462, MCW5002, MCW20, MCW40... all the same... DD original Ali Top'd Maze4 likewise... Innovatek Rev3 CPU Block likewise...

All anodised... anti-corrosive additive used precisely to manufacturer's mix ratio for proper protection rather than clear-tubing... all still corroded within 18 months. The swiftech blocks ended up with corrosive pits around half a mm deep iirc... s'why back then I went with dangerden - no aluminium used at all...

[masaville]

Those are some pretty nasty pictures.

Marci....is 5% enough G11 or should I be using 10%? I thought I read somewhere that 5% would be more than enough. Thanks.

[masaville]

I've decided to ditch my aluminum reservoirs. Moving to Delrin/Acrylic....thanks for the advice. Lots of threads about aluminum corrosion were enough to scare me into buying two acrylic reservoirs.

Brass and Copper are side by side effectively in the galvanic series - corrosion won't occur between them.

Aluminium however is further apart in the galvanic series, so corrosion will occur between Alu & Brass, or Alu & Copper, or Alu vs Brass&Copper.

Anodized aluminium is fine to use in a loop if you can GUARANTEE that the quality of anodizing is perfect. The slightest scratch that goes thru the anodized layer, exposing bare aluminium underneath, will result in corrosion taking place very quickly. FluidXP etc will slow down the problem, but if you don't change the FluidXP frequently enough then corrosion will still take place. Same applies to distilled water and anti-corrosive additive.

As you can't guarantee the quality of the anodizing in the hardware within our scene, it's just safer to steer clear of aluminium altogether.

[Gabriel Noraa]

What coolant was that?

I don't remember, it has past quite a few time since that. In my loop right know there is only Delrin, Acrylic, Copper and Brass.

[masaville]

Good point Andy. I bought two EKs myself so I'm glad to hear you like yours.

yup,

I had the exact same res as yours and did the exact same thing just to be safe. I went with the EK res, and they are great. Becuase the last thing I want to see in my loop is the condition above.

Bummer in a way. The concept of the XSPC res is really cool and I loved the way they looked, but better to eat 70.00 now than 1000.00 later IMO.

I still might try it in a lesser rig on some old stuff.

gl,

andyc

[epion2985]

Hard to tell what's solder and what isn't there...

My Swiftech blocks all ended up the same as yours despite running 10% Zerex / 90% distilled and flushing/refilling with fresh mixture every 6 months... MCW462, MCW5002, MCW20, MCW40... all the same... DD original Ali Top'd Maze4 likewise... Innovatek Rev3 CPU Block likewise...

All anodised... anti-corrosive additive used precisely to manufacturer's mix ratio for proper protection rather than clear-tubing... all still corroded within 18 months. The swiftech blocks ended up with corrosive pits around half a mm deep iirc... s'why back then I went with dangerden - no aluminium used at all...

What about swiftech mcw60? Any aluminum there?

[MaxxxRacer]

Brass and Copper are side by side effectively in the galvanic series - corrosion won't occur between them.

Aluminium however is further apart in the galvanic series, so corrosion will occur between Alu & Brass, or Alu & Copper, or Alu vs Brass&Copper.

Anodized aluminium is fine to use in a loop if you can GUARANTEE that the quality of anodizing is perfect. The slightest scratch that goes thru the anodized layer, exposing bare aluminium underneath, will result in corrosion taking place very quickly. FluidXP etc will slow down the problem, but if you don't change the FluidXP frequently enough then corrosion will still take place. Same applies to distilled water and anti-corrosive additive.

As you can't guarantee the quality of the anodizing in the hardware within our scene, it's just safer to steer clear of aluminium altogether.

Quality Advice right there..

[Marci]

What about swiftech mcw60? Any aluminum there?

Copper base, injected plastic top... no aluminium.

Marci....is 5% enough G11 or should I be using 10%?

The "right" amount is that recommended by the manufacturer to attain full anticorrosive properties. That's the ONLY "right" amount.

This however causes clouding etc, so watercoolers use LESS than the "right" amount, meaning it's all guesswork, not a precise figure and thus so is it's corrosion controlling abilities. If you're NOT using the manufacturer's precise mix ratio, then you cannot guarantee that you're coolant is anticorrosive.

[masaville]

Copper base, injected plastic top... no aluminium.



The "right" amount is that recommended by the manufacturer to attain full anticorrosive properties. That's the ONLY "right" amount.

This however causes clouding etc, so watercoolers use LESS than the "right" amount, meaning it's all guesswork, not a precise figure and thus so is it's corrosion controlling abilities. If you're NOT using the manufacturer's precise mix ratio, then you cannot guarantee that you're coolant is anticorrosive.

Thanks for the update - appreciated.

[masaville]

oh yeah,

with the Pentosin mix in them, they are purddy. There well made, crystal clear and functional as hell too with the muti way top.

Good luck,

andyc

Are you using your EKs to support more than one loop or just the one?

[IanY]

This is all very confusing. Most, if not all, of us have all copper loops. There's no aluminum in any of our loops, generally speaking. Yet, if we don't change our fluid, the tubes get cloudy, which may be the tubes themselves, but we end up with gunk/sludge/goop (I'm searching for the appropriate word) in our water blocks... eventually. We can brag about opening up our blocks a year later and finding that its clean etc., but we all know that eventually some sort of nasty residue forms. This is whether we use ethylene glycol, biocide or any other chemicals. Why is that so?

[Marci]

I'm trying to hint without having to directly say it... see my posts within http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...50#post2060150 & http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=136514

[IanY]

Read you loud and clear. Slaps my face like a wall of bricks. I wonder if anyone else gets the not-so-sublimal message.

[tommrussell]

could not have been clearer even if written in CAPS , thanks for the insite marci

[MaxxxRacer]

I'm trying to hint without having to directly say it... see my posts within http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...50#post2060150 & http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=136514

Good info there Marc. Kind of silly that none of us thought to contact Saint-Gobain before.

[Fossil]

Table 1.1.4 - The Nobility of Common Metals

1. Aluminum
2. Zinc
3. Steel
4. Iron
5. Stainless Steel - Active
6. Tin
7. Lead
8. Copper
9. Stainless Steel - Passive

The order of Alu+Zinc on here does not match any other table I can find on, or off, the net.

[Xion X2]

mccoffey--Thanks for the chart. I don't mean to question you, but do you have a source that I can verify? I would just like to know how you obtained your information and verify that it's 100% accurate.

Thanks!

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

mccoffey--Thanks for the chart. I don't mean to question you, but do you have a source that I can verify? I would just like to know how you obtained your information and verify that it's 100% accurate.

Thanks!

Almost any high school chemistry text book would do that for you.

EDIT:

For example, mine had it as a chart near the back.