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Thread: LN2 tutorial

  1. #1
    Aussie God
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    LN2 tutorial

    For several years people have benched their computers, and still more join the game, and only a few part, thereby it gives you a hard time making your computer perform better then everyone else’s.
    Most of you probably know about applications that are being used to benchmark your computers, applications like:
    SuperPi
    Hexus PiFast
    3Dmark

    Well, LN2 benching allows you that “little” extra too get on top of things
    One year ago I would have said “processors keep making more and more heat, and thereby needs better cooling”, but that’s just not true, they make less heat than ever, due to new market strategies from the major CPU manufacturers, AMD & Intel. But even though the low W usage there’s still a lot to gain by using extreme cooling.
    In case some of you wonder “what the heck is LN2”, now should be a proper time to answer that question, LN2 is Liquid Nitrogen, which is -196 deg Celsius, and works very good as coolant

    What do you need for LN2 benching?
    You’ll need a tube, solid or brazed, you’ll need LN2 of cause - And you will need some hardware that allows you to go seriously subzero, also, you need a truckload of money, ‘cause if you choose this path, you will definitely loose hardware now and then.

    Where can you get LN2???
    LN2 is not easy to get, I do not know how you will get it if your from Asia or the USA, but here, in Europe, we have a firm, Air Liquide, which produces LN2. It’s not like shopping in the local Ikea, you have to be a member in order to get the nitrogen, further in some country’s, you got to have your own dewar. (“can” for transport)
    In Denmark, it’s possible to rent a dewar at Air Liquide, and quite cheap as well, 22 DKK (about 3.5$) a day.

    How much will you need?
    Of cause it depends on the amount of heat your hardware puts out, but it’s a darn shame to run dry, get 15 liters while your at it, you might only need 8-10 if it’s a low W CPU, but its not fun to run dry and being near a WR.

    What is the price of LN2?
    This question, I’m sad to announce I cannot help you with, in Denmark its 23DKK (3.8$) for one single liter… - My friend, Waus-Mod, from Holland, purchases his for 0.5 Euro a liter, which is WAY cheaper, so the price is not easy to tell.

    How much is a tube?
    The price of a tube varies a lot, a solid one will cost you 100-250$, while a brazed 50-100$.

    Dewar:

    Just next to the dewar I’ve put a A64 box, as most of you know the size of such a box,
    this is a 25L dewar, and weights more than…. Well too much

    Tube
    This is my tube, made by Minusgrader, a XS user from Sweden, its brazed, but works very well, sadly I don’t know the exact temperature, due to some bios complications.



    What potential does LN2 have as far as temps matter?
    The temperature you will hit depends on tube, and CPU, I’ve tried two LN2 sessions so far, first was with a good old FX55 Clawhammer, it was very easy to get it to -120 deg, actually, I had to keep it warm in order to prevent coldbug in IMC, and that was a 1.85v 130nm CPU, the tube used was a 1.5” brazed Cu-Tube, made by a Danish fellow.
    But I know from my dear mate, Waus-mod, that one of his tubes was -191 deg Celsius cold under load from his Dothan, a very decent temp considering LN2 being -196 deg.

    The test
    Config:
    T2600ES QHJJ (step 4)
    AOpen i975Xa-YDG
    2*1GB Crucial Ballistix PC6400 4-4-4-12
    Sapphire x1900 XTX


    Preparation:
    Before doing any tests, I mounted an IHS on the CPU, in order to make sure I don’t break the chip. Before mounting IHS I sanded it, in order to get perfect contact.




    The board with insulation, armaflex tape, around socket


    Gear ready for some action, sadly I didn’t have time for making a PVC holding


    Anybody doubts this is some really cold stuff? Picture taken after I put down dewar safely, picked up my digicam and pressed the button!


    A little how not to do it, do NOT fill the tube, I just did it once to get a good picture,
    It’ll only waste your LN2 a lot faster without gaining a thing.


    Funny how this coffee can gets all frosted up, but it sure did, also in the background, it’s quite easy to see that my hold down should have been in PVC, ice all over due to metal hold down.


    Results

    First result, or actually, last one, but there are only two I took a picture of.

    SPI 32M


    PiFast: 30.98s
    SPI 1M: 17.375s
    SPI 32M: 16m 27s
    AM3: 134.159
    01SE: 49.634
    05: 15.193


    Final thoughts
    THIS WILL NOT WORK AS A 24/7 METHOD, DON’T EVEN CONSIDER IT.
    I think of LN2 action as great fun, it’s the most extreme it gets. And its very different from normal benching, it’s a challenge.

    M.Beier over’n out

    PS: Feel free to download the entire picture collection!!
    Last edited by M.Beier; 05-07-2006 at 11:20 PM.
    Competition ranking;
    2005; Netbyte, Karise/Denmark #1 @ PiFast
    2008; AOCM II, Minfeld/Germany #2 @ 01SE/AM3/8M (w. Oliver)
    2009; AMD-OC, Viborg/Denmark #2 @ max freq Gigabyte TweaKING, Paris/France #4 @ 32M/01SE (w. Vanovich)
    2010: Gigabyte P55, Hamburg/Germany #6 @ wprime 1024/SPI 1M (w. THC) AOCM III, Minfeld/Germany #6 @ 01SE/AM3/1M/8M (w. NeoForce)

    Spectating;
    2010; GOOC 2010 Many thanks to Gigabyte!


  2. #2
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    Looking Great!
    You cant use dry ice without any water?

  3. #3
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    Nice M.Beier, this thread should be considered to become sticky perhabs?

    Nice results and looked like great fun, It was also fun talking with you meanwhile you where benching, Thumbs up, keep the spirit up and get yourself another mobo!

    /Grau
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    Life is like a beer, the longer its open, the worse it gets

  4. #4
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    Nice tutorial M. Beier!

  5. #5
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    Sweet is all i can say, i keep being impressed by the power of LN2 its LOADED with power .

    Nice results there m8, keep up the god work.
    OPTERON 148 @ 3200mhz Water cooled
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  6. #6
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    Sticky ..

    Can i add some things?

    When you are having LN2 benching sessions ,for the best of you(and your machine($$$ i mean.) of course) is better to put a fan with big cfm in order not to get the insulation frozen and then wet your mobo etc!

    Grats Mr.Beier..
    When Mercedes brought their C111 to Talledega years ago and blew away the closed course record did it count? Yes..
    That was a "factory" car and a "one of" that no one could buy and was never sold.
    Records are records and that is a fact so get over it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoriLLakoS
    Sticky ..

    Can i add some things?

    When you are having LN2 benching sessions ,for the best of you(and your machine($$$ i mean.) of course) is better to put a fan with big cfm in order not to get the insulation frozen and then wet your mobo etc!

    Grats Mr.Beier..
    quote for truth, flow will help reduce the condensation all over the rig

    Back in the phase change world

  8. #8
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    you should also wait turning off the rig will the cpu temp starts to come +0
    I had to turn off my rig once (with some fans on it) and condensation was over the place when I got back.

    this was with DI

  9. #9
    namu daishi henjo kongo
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    We put the whole rig into a styrofoam-box (and modded it ), which gives you a nice cooling of the complete system. You just have to be carefull we when you defrost it, put away all current!





    Quote Originally Posted by NEW MODEL ARMY - the attack - 1984
    Now the talking's over, plans are laid and the hour is set
    Glances round the table, eyes all shining, dark and bright
    We meet again at daybreak for the day that will be ours
    We're tomorrow's history. So just check your weapons, say your prayers.

  10. #10
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    Nice pic's

  11. #11
    xtreme energy
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    Nice

    It was mentioned in another thread that it is better to use bare hands (NO GLOVES)! In case LN2 hits your hands you won't get frost bite.


    And about where to get it
    Check AGA or Linde Group, they are all over Europe and probably in other countries as well under different name. I am always buying DICE there but last time I asked if they have any LN2 for sale. They said yes, no problem just get your dewar and come to us And pretty cheap too, DICE is cheap there too
    ...

  12. #12
    Aussie God
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    Ohh, my bad, I put that in my report though

    Either you use bare hands or special safety gloves, due the temp diff is too big and your hands are dry enough so the LN2 wont effect you, if using normal gloves, it'll consume your glove and your hand will burn
    Competition ranking;
    2005; Netbyte, Karise/Denmark #1 @ PiFast
    2008; AOCM II, Minfeld/Germany #2 @ 01SE/AM3/8M (w. Oliver)
    2009; AMD-OC, Viborg/Denmark #2 @ max freq Gigabyte TweaKING, Paris/France #4 @ 32M/01SE (w. Vanovich)
    2010: Gigabyte P55, Hamburg/Germany #6 @ wprime 1024/SPI 1M (w. THC) AOCM III, Minfeld/Germany #6 @ 01SE/AM3/1M/8M (w. NeoForce)

    Spectating;
    2010; GOOC 2010 Many thanks to Gigabyte!


  13. #13
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    Nice bench rig stummerwinter !

    No coldboot with the mobo ?

    When we (SOC) have tested the GAG1975X under lné : just colboot problems under -130°c

    and With DICE : coldboot or coldchipbug when the i975 Chipset is under -28°c...

    M.BIER there is some container like this :

    ...

  14. #14
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    Hi

    Wow, M.Beier superb article .

    Your preparations look very pro too .

    This topic should be sticky, it can be very helpful art for beginners .

    Regards
    Peter

  15. #15
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    Nice work M.beier But dont forget 1 very importent thing. The dangers of playing with LN2. LN2 is NOT to be take with a light hand. There is a lot of safety issues that you should put at point 1. Then a sticky would be in its place.

    safety first :TOAST:
    The whole world's hip and thats not cool !

    Rip Van Hippy

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  16. #16
    silver wall jumper X
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIOUX
    Nice work M.beier But dont forget 1 very importent thing. The dangers of playing with LN2. LN2 is NOT to be take with a light hand. There is a lot of safety issues that you should put at point 1. Then a sticky would be in its place.

    safety first :TOAST:

    Nice work!I Thanks Sioux! Yes, please please please make the first section "safety first" would hate to see somebody loose sight because of a tiny splash of LN2 in their eye!

  17. #17
    XIP
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    Good work there I can get LN2 easy here, but I want to know what safety measures should I follow? What kind of glove etc

  18. #18
    ln2nl
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    no gloves and im not joking... look @ my movie some threads away
    *EDITed by IFMU*
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumo
    Good work there I can get LN2 easy here, but I want to know what safety measures should I follow? What kind of glove etc
    Dumo with LN2...

    Where, may I ask, and how much? NY just might be worth the 3 hours drive from Boston...

  20. #20
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    I would like ln2 run on next week.
    Have Linde group in hungary,so ln2 have. My tube is made.
    No have got dewar Thermos battle is ok?
    I want little superpi 1m test..

    So 3-4 Litres is enough for superpi 1m run?
    What I do need for sp1m, or 32m , 3dmark05..?

    Rig: DFI+ 3200+ Venice..

    Thx, M.Beier
    "We are competing, competing to win. And the main motivation is to compete for victory" - Ayrton Senna

  21. #21
    xtreme energy
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    For venice try ss or dice first and see if it has coldbug...

    No point of LN2 if it has coldbug at +5C lol
    ...

  22. #22
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    stummerwinter

    IN your picture, is the pot not in use soaking in something?
    Quote Originally Posted by nn_step
    Well CPUs are like women they all like things specific ways for them.. Some love 8x and others Love 9x or 7x.. they all just have their G-Spot and you have to learn to use it..
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi
    For venice try ss or dice first and see if it has coldbug...

    No point of LN2 if it has coldbug at +5C lol
    hmm, Venices have cold bug? I only know coldbug have opterons and fxs, not venices.

    But when I first use ss or dice, thx.
    Last edited by over@locker886; 05-15-2006 at 10:09 AM.
    "We are competing, competing to win. And the main motivation is to compete for victory" - Ayrton Senna

  24. #24
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    is this called a dewar/container?
    http://www.cryodewars.com/catalog/in...6fdb4964655f3a

    and how do you think bout the quality of their "dewar"?
    and what capacities should i choose for benchign?

    thx

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by over@locker886
    hmm, Venices have cold bug? I only know coldbug have opterons and fxs, not venices.

    But when I first use ss or dice, thx.
    all 90nm amd-cpus have cold-bug
    there are only some "golden" chips, which run under ln2/cascade!
    E2160 @ 360x9, max 390x9 watercooled
    GA-P35-DS3
    Cellshock D9GMH @ 545mhz cl5-5-5-5-15
    Palit 7300gt 500/1000 @ 780/1600 watercooled

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