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Thread: Triple Evap on Rotary

  1. #1
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    Triple Evap on Rotary

    Well by popular demand, I figured I'd get some pics of the triple evap system I've been testing out. I doubt I'll be building it for real, but I did get some interesting results from it.

    The system is a 3/4HP rotary compressor like this one



    And the rest is 3 Mach2 heads I got from some evap changes, which I redid with new captube and bored out for 3/8" suction.

    The 'CPU' evap got 2.5m of .031" captube, and the other 2 got 3m of .031" captube.

    The suction, as shown in the pics, is 'biased' for the cpu evap. Suction pulls on the cpu first, with a slightly shorter suction on the cpu as the 2 GPU evaps, about 6" shorter.

    Gas was R290 initially, then I used 402a, with just a little R290.

    The final testing for temps is what I'll show, as it reflects closer to what it would really do if it were done. I think I would need to do something with valving if it were going to be built properly, as the cpu evap couldn't work without load on the gpu evaps due to low pressure in those 2 not allowing for decent refrigerant flow in the CPU evap.



    That was how the duallie was set up.



    And that's with the third head attached. I then partially insulated it. I'ts just solid suctions for testing things out. When I build the Duallies for real I'll be using flexi's and the compressor will likely be mounted sideways to try to make it fit a narrower box.



    That's the mess with some insulation, and the 150w tester on the cpu, and the 275w tester with the 2 GPU evaps on that one sharing it. Not pretty, but pretty effective. That makes for a total of 425w or so on the system. Should be a good test of how well the rotary will carry such a load.



    That's GPU1



    and GPU2

    I think that one of those 2 is a little blocked. I noticed from the start that after I put the third head on and redid the captube that one of the captubes seemed a little squashed against the side, so I think I'm just not getting the flow that I need to it. They both hold the load, just with dual head I had a much better balance. Still 3 degrees wasn't bad.



    And the CPU evap.

    Yeah, I could really use a 4 channel temp probe, or at least another 2 channel as switching is really getting annoying, but not a big deal.



    Naturally I forgot to take some pics before I got the no load temps, but that's after I'd taken the insulation off to get better pics of the layout. Befroe I stripped it I was seeing about -55 or so at no load, but the lack if insulation brought that up. That was the cpu evap, but the temps were about -53 on the cpu and GPU2 and -52 or so on the GPU1 evap. As I said, there was something making the one GPU evap sit a little higher in temp than the other.

    I didn't get the GPU's to work without the cpu loaded and vice versa. Just not enough pressure to keep them flooded as the refrigerant didn't want to go to the higher pressure area, and just snuck out the low, but with them all loaded it worked ok.

    Pressures were high to keep it working though. I was seeing about 230psi or so on the high, and about 7psi low under load, and 190psi high, and around 2inHG low at no load.

    So not bad anyways, and that was tuning it for 10c superheat at the suction accumulator bottom before the short return pipe. So the capacity was all there. I could have tuned it leaner, but the compressor was very cool even under load for a Rotary. After it was all tuned and running, it wasn't quite at 100c on the compressor body, about 97c or so.

    So as a test it really helped me get around working on the multiple evap systems. Gave me insight in to how they work, and what changes it would take to make it a viable option.

    Working fully I'd have expected about -38 on each head. Nearly -40 on a triple evap system running full load. And at over 400w, I was seriously impressed with the capacity of the rotary too.

    So that's the project all done for now until I get some proper evaps and suction lines, and then I'll be making a few dual head units out of it. I was able to run the dual evap independantly, which was quite cool as I'm making them with the option of either dual GPU, or CPU/GPU, so with a high load on one and a low load on hte other I need to know that there's not goin to be any problems with the capacity falling off on either one, and the dual tests indicated there was no problem at all with that.

    So basically, triple evaps are a pain, but are really cool when they work. And Rotaries are



    Gray
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  2. #2
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    Just lack of words ...master of tech

    How about new cam after christmas ?

    Peter

  3. #3
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    LMAO yes I'll be on the hunt for a new cam. First I really need another temp probe though. Just imagine trying to keep swapping plugs fast enough to check if you're holding load, what temps are where, etc.

    Thanks though. I really must have too much free time to be wasting it on these weird little projects.

    I think the thing that stands out most isn't the temps, or the difficulties of the project, but the fact that with all the bodged up insulation it's just about the ugliest thing you ever saw.

    I promise when I get the evaps and the first of the Dual head units done I'll post up some pics of it, cos it should be a lot prettier than this one

    Maybe I'll jsut convince the wife to let me use her cam for a while, it's much nicer than mine


    Gray
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  4. #4
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    i cant see any of ur pics!!!!!





    pls use an other host
    Last edited by the_new_guy; 01-01-2006 at 09:58 AM.

  5. #5
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    Right, just for you mate

    If these links don't work, it's your own fault for using a 'discount browser' heheh

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/ef2e483e25.jpg

    That's the dual in action just for you cos I don't think you could see it in the other thread either.

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/db914e411f.jpg

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/bca40e4522.jpg

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/9da813f88a.jpg

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/953b7ebe86.jpg

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/de1b8d7a45.jpg

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/a677501a67.jpg

    And the Triple stuff.

    Cheers

    Gray
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mole
    Well by popular demand, I figured I'd get some pics of the triple evap system I've been testing out. I doubt I'll be building it for real, but I did get some interesting results from it.

    The system is a 3/4HP rotary compressor like this one



    And the rest is 3 Mach2 heads I got from some evap changes, which I redid with new captube and bored out for 3/8" suction.

    The 'CPU' evap got 2.5m of .031" captube, and the other 2 got 3m of .031" captube.

    The suction, as shown in the pics, is 'biased' for the cpu evap. Suction pulls on the cpu first, with a slightly shorter suction on the cpu as the 2 GPU evaps, about 6" shorter.

    Gas was R290 initially, then I used 402a, with just a little R290.

    The final testing for temps is what I'll show, as it reflects closer to what it would really do if it were done. I think I would need to do something with valving if it were going to be built properly, as the cpu evap couldn't work without load on the gpu evaps due to low pressure in those 2 not allowing for decent refrigerant flow in the CPU evap.


    That was how the duallie was set up.



    And that's with the third head attached. I then partially insulated it. I'ts just solid suctions for testing things out. When I build the Duallies for real I'll be using flexi's and the compressor will likely be mounted sideways to try to make it fit a narrower box.



    That's the mess with some insulation, and the 150w tester on the cpu, and the 275w tester with the 2 GPU evaps on that one sharing it. Not pretty, but pretty effective. That makes for a total of 425w or so on the system. Should be a good test of how well the rotary will carry such a load.


    That's GPU1



    and GPU2

    I think that one of those 2 is a little blocked. I noticed from the start that after I put the third head on and redid the captube that one of the captubes seemed a little squashed against the side, so I think I'm just not getting the flow that I need to it. They both hold the load, just with dual head I had a much better balance. Still 3 degrees wasn't bad.



    And the CPU evap.

    Yeah, I could really use a 4 channel temp probe, or at least another 2 channel as switching is really getting annoying, but not a big deal.

    Naturally I forgot to take some pics before I got the no load temps, but that's after I'd taken the insulation off to get better pics of the layout. Befroe I stripped it I was seeing about -55 or so at no load, but the lack if insulation brought that up. That was the cpu evap, but the temps were about -53 on the cpu and GPU2 and -52 or so on the GPU1 evap. As I said, there was something making the one GPU evap sit a little higher in temp than the other.

    I didn't get the GPU's to work without the cpu loaded and vice versa. Just not enough pressure to keep them flooded as the refrigerant didn't want to go to the higher pressure area, and just snuck out the low, but with them all loaded it worked ok.

    Pressures were high to keep it working though. I was seeing about 230psi or so on the high, and about 7psi low under load, and 190psi high, and around 2inHG low at no load.

    So not bad anyways, and that was tuning it for 10c superheat at the suction accumulator bottom before the short return pipe. So the capacity was all there. I could have tuned it leaner, but the compressor was very cool even under load for a Rotary. After it was all tuned and running, it wasn't quite at 100c on the compressor body, about 97c or so.

    So as a test it really helped me get around working on the multiple evap systems. Gave me insight in to how they work, and what changes it would take to make it a viable option.

    Working fully I'd have expected about -38 on each head. Nearly -40 on a triple evap system running full load. And at over 400w, I was seriously impressed with the capacity of the rotary too.

    So that's the project all done for now until I get some proper evaps and suction lines, and then I'll be making a few dual head units out of it. I was able to run the dual evap independantly, which was quite cool as I'm making them with the option of either dual GPU, or CPU/GPU, so with a high load on one and a low load on hte other I need to know that there's not goin to be any problems with the capacity falling off on either one, and the dual tests indicated there was no problem at all with that.

    So basically, triple evaps are a pain, but are really cool when they work. And Rotaries are



    Gray
    You will need to install EPR's on the suction from the two gpu's

  7. #7
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    Yeah, EPR's would really make it easier to balance them consistently, but I'm struggling to find a refrigeration supplier that carries them here in the UK.

    As usual.

    I'm not that concerned about the duals, as in testing there was no problem with running full load on one and no load on the other, but for a triple there's no way around it unless all heads are being used fully, and even then the balance is off.

    I might have to consider seeing if you can get them along with an order if I do get a request for a triple out here, but really the temps aren't good enough to warrant a triple, when a dual gpu unit, and a single cpu unit, would likely give a far better result.

    I think that if it had your evaps on it though, I'd be seeing a much better temp result though. I'll see what happens with better evaps on the Dual and gauge it from there.

    If you could give me an idea of what EPR's are worth in the US that would be awesome tho

    Even on the Duals, it would make the operation much smoother and guarantee a good balance to them.

    Gray
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Mole
    Right, just for you mate

    If these links don't work, it's your own fault for using a 'discount browser' heheh

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/ef2e483e25.jpg

    That's the dual in action just for you cos I don't think you could see it in the other thread either.

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/db914e411f.jpg

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/bca40e4522.jpg

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/9da813f88a.jpg

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/953b7ebe86.jpg

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/de1b8d7a45.jpg

    http://www.imgbox.co.uk/uploads/a677501a67.jpg

    And the Triple stuff.

    Cheers

    Gray
    i think its my ty ISP, tried to open it in firefox, opera, safari, i even went and used a ty Peceeeey, it wont even let me download the linked files.

    sorry you had to go thru trouble

  9. #9
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    Woot. The first pic is actually okay

    Btw: Nice cooler

  10. #10
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    the compressor will likely be mounted sideways to try to make it fit a narrower box.
    Wouldn't that cause lubercation problems?

  11. #11
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    Do the thumbs work? Just put a few in there if you can see 'em...

    Gray
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by star882
    Wouldn't that cause lubercation problems?
    No no not actually laying down lol just as the compressor body with the suction accumulator is too wide for a somewhat standard case, it would need to be 'turned' is all.

    It's about 8" wide with suction accumulator, but sideways it's only 4". It just means I can get it into a thinner case, instead of a 10" square one.

    There are compressors that are designed to lay flat but this isn't one of them

    Gray
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  13. #13
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    Well after some chatting about EPR's and such I may end up doing a triple evap for real on one of the Rotaries after all.

    I'll be doing some testing with it after I get the EPR's I need, so it won't be for a bit, but if I do I'll post up how it works out in this thread.

    Ideally though if the GPU circuit were tune for about 10psi and held there, the evap temp of the GPU's should be pretty steady at about -25 to -30 depending on the gas used, making the GPU's a lot easier to insulate, and the balance of the power for the CPU. That would make for an ideal setup i think, bringing the CPU temp down considerably.

    We'll see how that goes anyways. I suppose it just depends if there's any interest in a real life triple, but if and when it get's made I suppose it depends on the temps it's capable of, and how reliable the operation is.

    Certainly some food for thought though. Would save some space over having 2 or 3 units I suppose

    Cheers

    Gray
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  14. #14
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    man it will be amazing, maybe use ur 2hp, its looking gr8, thanks for pics!!

  15. #15
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    I think you only need 1 EPR. put it on the combined suction line of the gpu's giving both gpu's the same temp and the cpu suction doesn't need one.

  16. #16
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    I'd thought about that, though I suppose if you have the epr's on the gpu suctions immediately after the flexi you'll get the best balance.

    I'll be trying it with a single epr and dual epr's though, so I'll see what gives the best and most consistent result and go with it.

    If the single will do the job well enough, then it makes the end result that much less expensive I suppose, but if a second epr is a lot better, it's worth it I think.

    Just can't wait to try it though. I'm without a real project again, so I'll have to find something to occupy my time until some new evaps come in.

    Might have to get back to work on the chiller


    Gray
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  17. #17
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    post 1 garry second pic looks like a three head dragon.
    should have done flames instead of smilies
    good to see ya having fun garry
    Last edited by kayl; 01-03-2006 at 06:34 AM.

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