Another Redline death?

**Vincentvega18** · 07-03-2005, 10:25 AM

Very odd thing happened, when i went to tweak some timings on 2*512 of redline, rebooted and the whole system powered off, i hadnt realised i left voltage low and clocked too high. So i restarted and heard the long beeps, checked the leds and was saying ram. Now i can only boot one stick in slot 1 (yellow furthest from cpu) and any other wont. Also the second stick wont boot at all, on its own or in dual/single with the other. Anyone had anything like this. Looks like another mushkin rma coming up.
amd 3500+ claw
dfi nf4 ultra-D
2*512 muchkin 4000 redline
ocz 520 powerstream.

**Vapor** · 07-03-2005, 10:36 AM

Tried clearing CMOS?

**Vincentvega18** · 07-03-2005, 10:42 AM

Yes, cleared cmos etc, had to stick in some other ram to set voltages to normal (well.........for redline) and still no go, all other settings @ auto in bios so stock timings.

**Vapor** · 07-03-2005, 10:47 AM

Def sounds like they died...weird.

**jiff** · 07-04-2005, 03:52 AM

Well if I was you I would leave the stick somewhere cool for 24 hours, then reflash the bios to 510-2 615 618-2 623-2.

Or load default settting with good stick enter bios up Vdimm, Load into windows then shut down. Dont unplug power cord put the other stick in see if it boots.

I have a strong feeling that 90% of so called dead sticks is infact the board ie "so called cold boot"

**TMM** · 07-04-2005, 04:44 AM

So these DFI NF4s are killing UTT with lower voltage now....lol

**wtz54321** · 07-04-2005, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by TMM

So these DFI NF4s are killing UTT with lower voltage now....lol

IF UTT DRAM die with low voltage on DFI NF4 , apparently it's not the board kill the dram because the board will never supply high voltage dram ... It's the UTT casue the root problem ... No matter what kind of UTT chip is used , these UTT module failure rate is much higher than pre-tested chip !!!

**fareastgq** · 07-04-2005, 12:32 PM

I don't believe that 95% of the cases here are dead sticks, just board voltage issues.

**wtz54321** · 07-04-2005, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by fareastgq

I don't believe that 95% of the cases here are dead sticks, just board voltage issues.

Most of them have cold boot problem first , and need more and more voltage to boot up after several weeks ... And finally they die ... I don't believe it's the board voltage problem ...

**Unrealcpu** · 07-04-2005, 05:20 PM

You have to boot up your DFI with some good old generic ram. Then once you get a post set your timmings again and save your cmos. Then put your redlines back in and they will work

**TMM** · 07-04-2005, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by wtz54321

IF UTT DRAM die with low voltage on DFI NF4 , apparently it's not the board kill the dram because the board will never supply high voltage dram ... It's the UTT casue the root problem ... No matter what kind of UTT chip is used , these UTT module failure rate is much higher than pre-tested chip !!!

that is true, but hardly any people are "killing" the UTT on boards other then the DFI NF4s :s - which leads me to think that it's something more then just voltage

**Vapor** · 07-04-2005, 06:48 PM

I think it's the unstable voltage the DFIs have at the 4V setting, probably am wrong though.

**ben805** · 07-04-2005, 06:58 PM

swap the stick around and boot again.

**Vincentvega18** · 07-04-2005, 10:26 PM

Ive tried every single possible placement for the 2 sticks together and all 4 for each stick, only one stick will boot in one slot. I was running @3.2volts at the time and ive never used the 4v jumper, ive always jacked up my 3.3v line and run off that.

**muaddib** · 07-05-2005, 05:20 AM

Do the Redline death phenomenon happens on DFI NF4 boards which were 4V/5V "jumpered"? Let's say that if I had a MSI K8N Neo2 or DFI NF4 @ 3V, I'm safe?

I would like to know this before I buy my Redline's.

**wtz54321** · 07-05-2005, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by TMM

that is true, but hardly any people are "killing" the UTT on boards other then the DFI NF4s :s - which leads me to think that it's something more then just voltage

Absoultely not true ... How many board out there has VDIMM higher than 2.9V when they are out of the factory ? MSI , No ... ASUS , No ... Gigabyte , No ... ABIT , no , until the V2.0 of AN8 and SLI version has 3.55V build in ... A lof of the users here use DFI NF4 board to overclock and the board is one of few board with VDIMM higher than 2.9V without mod ... That's the main reason you see most of the DIMM dead on this board ... But it does not mean that the board kill the DRAM ... If the board supply unstable voltage to kill the board using 4V jumper , there won't be any DRAM dead with 4V jumper set in 3.3V mode ... And there will be many old BH5/CH5 dead case here ... But most of the dead case is UTT DRAM , and these dram die on other board with DRAM voltage no higher than 3.3V ... It's almost impossible that the board is the only reason to kill these memory !!! The problem of the root cause is UTT DRAM , not what kind of UTT DRAM chip is used on the module !!! That's why these chip is called UTT chip and much cheaper when the module maker buy these chip !!! Unless the module maker can show us some evidence that how they proceed their burn in process to find out those quickly failure chip among all these UTT DRAM chip they buy , I don't believe all these UTT DRAM will not die even with 2.5V in any board ...

**wtz54321** · 07-05-2005, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Vincentvega18

Ive tried every single possible placement for the 2 sticks together and all 4 for each stick, only one stick will boot in one slot. I was running @3.2volts at the time and ive never used the 4v jumper, ive always jacked up my 3.3v line and run off that.

As I said before ... The root cause is not the voltage or the board ... These dead module contain those bad chip that will fail quickly among all the UTT DRAM chip ... You apply high voltage and accelerate the burn in time before the dram fail ... But it's not the voltage or the board kill the dram ... It's the DRAM itself is not a good one , which should be sorting out in general IC testing process ... But now they are UTT chip , and these chips are not sorting out before they put on the module ... Unless these module maker can show us some evidence how they do the burn in process to find out these quickly fail chip ... I believe the actually root cause of these dead module is UTT problem , not the board , and not the voltage ...

**jiff** · 07-05-2005, 07:37 AM

Used to agree with this, until I started getting cold boot problems and aparently completly dead sticks, boot screen hanging on mother board.
Vdimm voltages wrong @ start up Vcore voltages the same. Then flashing a bios makes the completly dead stick work again. I suggest the issue is much more to do with the board than you/some think. I also suspect alot of so called dead sticks will work on other boards, or bios

**Unrealcpu** · 07-05-2005, 07:41 AM

I hate mushkin, The GSKILL GH UTT RAM is confirmed by DUMO that the cold boot issue is not a problem with those sticks

**eBoy0** · 07-05-2005, 07:48 AM

Sadly one of my redlines dies this morning

Bah, looks like it's time to RMA...

**jinu117** · 07-05-2005, 07:49 AM

Defend the DFI mobo, we must.
Have you come to realize we haven't heard people complaining about dead UTT (OCZ Plat Rev.2) with DDR booster much at all compared to whats been going on? Noticed how there are no report of major issue on NF3 setups despite to fact popularness of UTT from that time frame? (anyone using UTT with less than 3.2v? hello?)
But all logics shall fail and we shall defend DFI...

I will present my case to you again.
How can 4 sticks of UTT die at exact same time if it is bad memory? Did I just get 4 mushkin blue that are bad which decided to die together at exact time? Let's see... what are the chances....

**geoff2k** · 07-05-2005, 08:37 AM

With all these redline deaths, can anybody comment on the easy/difficulty of Mushkin RMA's?

**eBoy0** · 07-05-2005, 08:39 AM

I'm going to find out today... i was overvolting them, but why did only one die?

**wtz54321** · 07-05-2005, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by jiff

Used to agree with this, until I started getting cold boot problems and aparently completly dead sticks, boot screen hanging on mother board.
Vdimm voltages wrong @ start up Vcore voltages the same. Then flashing a bios makes the completly dead stick work again. I suggest the issue is much more to do with the board than you/some think. I also suspect alot of so called dead sticks will work on other boards, or bios

I really don't know how you think it's the BIOS PROBLEM ... The new beta bios did solve the cold boot problem , but that's because the bios will program high dram voltage to boot up these " DEAD " stcik ... That does not mean that the DRAM is working as normal one ... You must be able to use the DRAM when you first get these module , and the DRAM must be able to boot at 2.6V ... But after several weeks of operation , these so called dead stick need more and more bootup voltage , apparently these module start to act strange , and the dram characteristic is far from normal one ... The bios is the workaround , but it's not the bios solve the dram not able to work @ 2.6V ... Since there are many dead stick die only with 3.2V or so with 3.3V jumper location , it's not the voltage kill these dram ... It's these dram chip are actually " Fail Quickly " ones ... These chip should already been sorting out before they put on the module , but the UTT chip did not have this process ... And the testing cost is saved , that's why the UTT chip is cheap when they ship to module maker !!!

**wtz54321** · 07-05-2005, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by jinu117

Defend the DFI mobo, we must.
Have you come to realize we haven't heard people complaining about dead UTT (OCZ Plat Rev.2) with DDR booster much at all compared to whats been going on? Noticed how there are no report of major issue on NF3 setups despite to fact popularness of UTT from that time frame? (anyone using UTT with less than 3.2v? hello?)
But all logics shall fail and we shall defend DFI...

I will present my case to you again.
How can 4 sticks of UTT die at exact same time if it is bad memory? Did I just get 4 mushkin blue that are bad which decided to die together at exact time? Let's see... what are the chances....

No , we should not defend DFI mobo ... If it's the board that supply wrong voltage to kill the DRAM , and the UTT chip is the victim ... Why should anybody defend DFI mobo ? But we are trying to find out the truth ... And I have already collect enough information to tell you it's not the board or the voltage to kill the DRAM ... It's the UTT DRAM problem ... Not the CH5 problem ... Once the module is made from UTT chip , no matter these UTT chip is made from winbond , samgsung , or any other company ... The failure rate of these module is much higher than " Pre-Tested chip " made module !!! It's not possible for the module maker to avoid the typical UTT problem unless they can do the same thing as IC testing company to find out those " fail quickly chip " ... I don't know if OCZ or mushkin can show us some picture of their burn in process of how to find out these " fail quickly chip " ... If they can provide us some information about this , we can find more and more possible reason how these dram module are dead !!!

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