140mm Fan Testing on a HWlabs SR1 Radiator Round 7

[Martinm210]

Gentle Typhoon AP-15 + BGears 120>140mm Adapter

Special thanks to Vapor for sponsoring the fan as well as the adapter...thanks!!

NOTES


Still absorbing this, but the GT on the adapter did very well. This is of coarse a bit apples to oranges with the adapter and possibly some shroud benefits/vibration isolation, so take it with that in mind. I will look into testing a couple of the top 140's with a shroud to check this later...

VIDEO LINK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ATFrngvoA8

[Martinm210]

Now, I just need to make a shroud for the 140's and see if the difference was the shroud effect from the adapter...or just the fans...

[Church]

Woah. GT manages to surprise again.

[zalbard]

Thanks, Martin, for all the hard work!
The review is really coming along nicely (so many fans just in the first couple of days)!
I am also amazed by GT... To be honest, I am hoping for some other fan to show up and beat it, it's been there on top for a bit too long, getting slightly outrageous!

[Waterlogged]

Don't know why you guys are surprised?. . .the SR1 is lower restriction than the MCR by a little bit, so it only stands to reason it plays into the AP-15's hands even more.

Martin, you should be able to do a quick 120 to 140 dBA to CFM GT only chart to get a quick idea if there was any affect from the BGears shroud...in theory anyways. Off the top of my head, looks like it didn't get a whole lot of help from the shroud ...if any.

[Church]

Someone can send to martin koolance's 140-120mm adapter to see if there is any difference because of shroud effect in cfm (or martin can cut out himself such from whatever flat material). I'm guessing though that in real world such 'flat' adapters would hurt actual real cooling because to addition of GT's big motor hub blind spot one would get additional blind spots near sides/corners because of adapter.

Martin: btw, other 140mm fans are not exactly shroud-less aswell, afterall, SR1 has rather uncommonly deep (compared to other rads) shroud integrated in it, at least from one side..

[Manicdan]

ok i think its time i make an order for 100,000 140mm AP15s, then ill ebay them for 100$ a piece

[coolhandluke41]

Someone can send to martin koolance's 140-120mm adapter to see if there is any difference because of shroud effect in cfm (or martin can cut out himself such from whatever flat material). I'm guessing though that in real world such 'flat' adapters would hurt actual real cooling because to addition of GT's big motor hub blind spot one would get additional blind spots near sides/corners because of adapter.

Martin: btw, other 140mm fans are not exactly shroud-less aswell, afterall, SR1 has rather uncommonly deep (compared to other rads) shroud integrated in it, at least from one side..

^+1 Yeah why not just flip the RAD..it's got the shroud on the other side?

[Creekin]

yeah as an SR1 owner I'd be interested to see what diff you think it makes for a given fan.

[Martinm210]

OK, I'll try out some shroud type options. I could either flip the radiator over (after removing the barbs) or try building a shroud from a gutted fan. Leaning toward the latter since I've got a Rosewill 140 in my son's case that's been annoying me..

I do have the last two 120+adapter videos to process yet, I'll add those in as I get time and plan on some more shroud type work after my get some more 120's done. I promised RatDog, I'd do the PWM testing next weekend, so I plan to do that first.

[shazza]

Don't y'all just hate it when Waterlogged is right?

[Martinm210]

Don't y'all just hate it when Waterlogged is right?

I think Vapor beat him to it...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=144

[Vapor]

An MCR isn't a very low restriction rad (on airflow) but the SR1 is...and 140mm is less restrictive than 120mm (what's easier to blow through, 1 straw or multiple straws? same principle here). So, yeah, of course Waterlogged was right (groan )

Interestingly, many, if not most, dust filters are more restrictive than an MCR. So in the grand scheme of things you can put on a fan, an RX/PA/TA/SR1 rad isn't reducing airflow (vs. open air) all that much

EDIT: What did Shazza mean about WL being right? That GT+adapter is ahead of the pack, or that SR1 140mm was less restrictive than MCR120? He's said both

[shazza]

Interestingly, many, if not most, dust filters are more restrictive than an MCR. So in the grand scheme of things you can put on a fan, an RX/PA/TA/SR1 rad isn't reducing airflow (vs. open air) all that much

Good point. Which is why all my fans are naked.


EDIT - in response to Vapor's last question - the GT adapter or the SR1? Doesn't matter, it just kills me when he's right

[Church]

GT results made me feel extra down because of investing in big pile of 140mm NB PK3s

[penguins]

but they're SOooooo pretty churchy!!!!!

[Martinm210]

Delta 38mm AFB1212VHE Rev3 from SWC + BGears 120-140 adapter

I had to see how high speed would do. Even if I can't put up with fans this high in speed, it's still impressive to watch now and then. This fan was sponsored by OldChap..

Seems to follow a similar trend as the 120mm fans. Starts out a bit high in speed, but it really has impressive CFM/noise ratio in the high speed area. Still very loud no doubt, but it's producing almost twice the CFM at similar noise levels as some of the 140s without an adapter.

Again, this is a bit apples to oranges with the adapter and potential shroud benefits, so take that into consideration as well.

VIDEO LINK
Not quite ready, but this should be after YT finishes processing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6IiiCv6mJQ

[Martinm210]

Yate Loon D12SL-12 PTS on BGears 120>140mm adapter

Pretty much about the same as the 140mm fans in noise level per CFM. While the 140's do have a general CFM per RPM advantage, they also produce more noise per RPM. Really not much if any difference other than a slightly different tone. Actually I much prefer the 120mm yate myself, it's smooth at all volts, where the 140mm is nice down at lower RPMs, but has issues up high with the blade resonance thing.

If the shroud effect is zero, it seems on a radiator there is little to no difference in noise level per CFM between 140mm and 120mm fans. This is probably why there is some hesitation for fan makers to go to 140 sizing...also probably why we see fewer high speed 140s. Anyhow, this 120 does great on the 140mm radiator, particularly with noise quality where it's smooth all around.

VIDEO LINK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lVREDxAiME

[guilleguillaume]

I actually think that if you redo the test of the 140mm fan putting them on the side of the SR-1 that includes the little shroud the results for the 140mm will be better and will make less noise but maybe I'm wrong.

[antiacid]

so either the 140mm fans are underwhelmingly poor performers or the gt15 is just above and beyond.

If only they undervolted without the whine

[Levish]

shroud benefit was pretty huge on higher fpi rads. I think the effect topped out around 2" depth, WeaponR I think did fairly extensive testing on heatercores.

iirc this was before even the PA series rads from Thermochill which were some of the lowest fpi by a large margin and even those benefitted.

[Church]

There was shroud depth and fan orientation done by Martin himself. Optimal shroud depth IIRC was 30mm.

[Alexandr0s]

What surprises me is that the shroud had no effect on the 120mm Yate Loon like it seemed to have on the Delta and the GT. I think that even with the Koolance adapter, the GT would outperform most 140mm fans.

[the finisher]

Guess I'm buying GT's. On the undervolting whine, you just have to get the right speed fan for your application.

The tight grouping of all competitors, and then the GT's is amazing.

Scythe better be getting more in the supply chain. I'd also like to see a higher speed model offered than the 15, as Nidec already makes it.


On the Delta 140's, not worth it, way to powerful.

<
I'd still like to send this San Ace 140L, It should be good for 5 to 24 volts.
Could only test to 12v, it should still do well. I'd just want to see the graph to 2600 rpm. Specs @ 160cfm, free air.
<
Obviously these are no solution, unless you have some.


I'm buying GT's

[Martinm210]

What surprises me is that the shroud had no effect on the 120mm Yate Loon like it seemed to have on the Delta and the GT. I think that even with the Koolance adapter, the GT would outperform most 140mm fans.

I don't think any of them had a shroud benefit. If you look at the dbA separation between the GT15@11V vs YateSM@12V on the MCR120 it's about 8-9dbA.

On the 140mm round, that difference is about 10dbA

I think the yate in 120mm is a very good fan, where the 140mm straight blade model is not quite as good. Either way, the GT is much stronger with noise level per CFM.

My guess is shrouds really don't change noise level/CFM much, if anything maybe sound quality, but I doubt it does much of anything for noise level.

Guess I'm buying GT's. On the undervolting whine, you just have to get the right speed fan for your application.

The tight grouping of all competitors, and then the GT's is amazing.

Scythe better be getting more in the supply chain. I'd also like to see a higher speed model offered than the 15, as Nidec already makes it.


On the Delta 140's, not worth it, way to powerful.

<
I'd still like to send this San Ace 140L, It should be good for 5 to 24 volts.
Could only test to 12v, it should still do well. I'd just want to see the graph to 2600 rpm. Specs @ 160cfm, free air.
<
Obviously these are no solution, unless you have some.


I'm buying GT's

I could give it a shot...I'm not in any hurry closing this testing down. While I'm not taking requests to buy new, I'll work in another test. As long as the wife is willing to put up with my test bench in the walk in..

When she kicks me out of there, I'll say testing is done!