Xflow Dual 120 Black Ice GT or no Xflow Dual 120 Black Ice GT?

[josh6079]

Does Xflow provide any better performance?

[sdkevin]

compared to what?

[CedricFP]

I think that the X-Flows are single pass radiators, so no, they will not perform better than a non-X-Flow (which is a dual pass.)

However, I may be mistaken.

[Sneaky]

the x-flow radiators provide better performance for loops with weaker pumps, as the pressure drop of a single-pass rad is half that of a dual-pass rad


otherwise, the plain BIX will always win if you have a good pump

[ReD.SkY]

according to sneaky's theory, the pressure drop of a single fan, dual pass rad is equal to 1 (speaking in a matter of units)

BIGT = 1 pressure drop
BIGTXflow = 1/2 pressure drop

so youre sayin that 2 BIGTxflow's in series will have the pressure drop on one BIGT, but will have the surface area of a BIGT240. you according to your statement, 2 x BIGTxflow's will perform better, and have less pressure drop than a BIGT240

arguing over

[MaxxxRacer]

according to sneaky's theory, the pressure drop of a single fan, dual pass rad is equal to 1 (speaking in a matter of units)

BIGT = 1 pressure drop
BIGTXflow = 1/2 pressure drop

so youre sayin that 2 BIGTxflow's in series will have the pressure drop on one BIGT, but will have the surface area of a BIGT240. you according to your statement, 2 x BIGTxflow's will perform better, and have less pressure drop than a BIGT240

arguing over

sorry.. you're just plain wrong. you did NOT account for fitting losses or tubing losses which are very significant. You also did not account for the fact that the water velocity in the Xflows is 1/2 that of the dual pass GT's which is a horrible design flaw on HWlabs part. So 2x BIGT Xflows will NOT equal a BIGT240 in performance. It would more likely be a good 20-35% lower performance, while costing more, be more prone to failure and leaks (based on the fact that there are just more components)

Also, the Xflows do not server ANY purpose for low flow setups. X-flow rads perform worse at low flow rates than the 2pass versions and do NOT improve flow that much at such low flow rates, especially when the cause of the low flow is from the waterblocks.


So in short, X-flow is the biggest waste of money to ever exist short of the bigwater.

[CedricFP]

Why on earth did they even create such a useless rad to begin with?

[Fuzzy_3D]

So in short, X-flow is the biggest waste of money to ever exist short of the bigwater.

And they charge more for them than regular GTs.

You are however forgetting that the X-Flow will, in some setups, reduce the amount of tubing required, so thats......good.

[MaxxxRacer]

You are however forgetting that the X-Flow will, in some setups, reduce the amount of tubing required, so thats......good.

keyword there is SOME.. and it would only be an advantage if it were to reduce the tubing by several feet.. which is about what most ppl have all to gether if they have an internal setup.

[tommrussell]

So in short, X-flow is the biggest waste of money to ever exist short of the bigwater.

does this include the pa 160 as it is a "cross flow" design

[Marci]

Why on earth did they even create such a useless rad to begin with?

Because despite those in the know insisting they were pointless, retail customers out there still insisted they wanted singlepass rads, so HWLabs met demand. Whether it's any good or not, if there's demand for it, and you want to make money, then make it. Muppets will buy it. Those in the know will sigh and shake their heads at market pollution and duff marketing / science.

And no, it doesn't include the PA160. It was designed to be single pass from day one, rather than being a dual pass with it's tanks removed and x-flow tanks attached in their place.

See http://www.over-clock.com/articles.p...showarticle=21

[tommrussell]

And no, it doesn't include the PA160. It was designed to be single pass from day one, rather than being a dual pass with it's tanks removed and x-flow tanks attached in their place.

See http://www.over-clock.com/articles.p...showarticle=21

marci i had a 160 and enjoyed the performance but traded up to the 120.2 and lowered the load temps by a couple of deg

[josh6079]

Thanks guys, I've decide to get this:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...oducts_id=4537

the regular Dual 120 Black Ice GT rather than that Xflow. I just didn't know if it cost more because of the way the have to make it or if it actually performs better. You guys helped (again).

[JoeBar]

So in short, X-flow is the biggest waste of money to ever exist short of the bigwater.

[Fuzzy_3D]

keyword there is SOME.. and it would only be an advantage if it were to reduce the tubing by several feet.. which is about what most ppl have all to gether if they have an internal setup.

My point is, your origional conclusion was correct.

Thanks guys, I've decide to get this:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...oducts_id=4537

the regular Dual 120 Black Ice GT rather than that Xflow. I just didn't know if it cost more because of the way the have to make it or if it actually performs better. You guys helped (again).

Well, it is "The Most advanced PC Radiator PERIOD!"

[ReD.SkY]

ofcourse i was plain out wrong, i was watching southpark, at 2:30am and typing with my eyes closed, and half asleep.

Im not nocturnal like creidiki.

[dietwaterrr]

ofcourse i was plain out wrong, i was watching southpark, at 2:30am and typing with my eyes closed, and half asleep.

Im not nocturnal like creidiki.

LOL!

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

creidiki's not nocturnal, he just never sleeps!

[ReD.SkY]

eh, whats the difference?

[ReD.SkY]

gah oops.... i couldve sworn i hit the edit button

[Aramdin]

I also want to know, has anyone empirical results of the XFlow version vs. the non-Xflow version? Here in Holland I can buy an Xflow for the same price as an normal version. With my setup in mind (check sig), which will yield better results?

[creidiki]

Yes. XFlow performs worse in every case and doesnt offer lower flow resistance, at all.

And anyone who knows their rad design can tell you ther idea that they perform better at lower flows is flawed, they need 2x the in-loop flow to have the same per-pipe flow, and hence same efficiency.

Basically, X-Flows are completely useless and nothing but a waste of cash.

http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=17958

From Radical_53's tests:

1 - Flow Restrictivity - flow set at 4lpm at pump, measured after radiator. % loss shown - smaller the loss, better the flow... listed best to worst.

Least Restrictive to flow...

* ThermoChill PA120.3 - 6%
* Watercool HTFX3-x - 14%
* HWLabs BlackIce GT360 - 17%
* HWLabs BlackIce GT360 XFlow - 17%
* HWLabs BlackIce Xtreme - 17%
* HWLabs BlackIce Xtreme XFlow - 17%
* Watercool HTSF - 17%
* Cooltek MCR320 - 18%
* NexXxos Xtreme - 23%
* NexXxos Pro - 27%

...most restrictive to flow

[Radical_53]

@aramdin: We checked two X-Flow versions, just to be sure that we would see the same difference in performance. Both times, when compared to the dual pass equivalent, X-Flow lost by quite a margin. Also, quite strangely, pressure drop was not lower on our test bed. So it really doesn't make sense to go for it. You definitely won't win that much performance with 1-2 feet of tubing you might need less as you lose by going X-Flow.

[Aramdin]

Nice, this is some info we can use. Thx for the heads up