SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

[Anvil]

The Force 3 was back on power again late Friday night so it was a disconnected for ~54-56 hours, it has been idling most of the time since it was back online.

I'll make a report in a few hours.

[Christopher]

Bluestang,

I've changed my mind about Indilinx 1.7 firmware. I've been having problems with the one drive I put on 1.7, but the amount of WA I was experiencing with earlier FW is probably worth the risk.

But my 128GB Turbo running 1.6 did lose some 4K read performance, but seemed to gain more 4K write. Two Agility 60s didn't really change at all, and the random performance of the 60GB Vertex EX is so good I didn't want to risk upgrading it. If the M225 had been used in a normal (normal for other people ) way I think it would be a no-brainer. In the endurance testing loads, I think it would probably be good for just enough to get you over the 1PB hump. My Turbo 128 1.6FW has less than 120GB host writes, but the PE cycles had exploded and MWI was dropping quickly compared to the Agility 60 on 1.7 which was being used without TRIM.

[Anvil]

Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

564.87TB Host writes
Reallocated sectors : 05 14
Available Reserved Space : E8 99
POH 5117
MD5 OK

35.92MiB/s on avg (~19 hours)

--

Corsair Force 3 120GB

01 88/50 (Raw read error rate)
05 2 (Retired Block count)
B1 47 (Wear range delta)
E6 100 (Life curve status)
E7 10 (SSD Life left)
E9 544724 (Raw writes) ->532TiB
F1 725061 (Host writes) ->708TiB

MD5 OK

106.53MiB/s on avg (~19 hours)

power on hours : 2098

--

I had to restart the computer about 19 hours ago as something was off and so almost nothing had been written between Friday-night and Saturday-night. (it was just very slow)

[Christopher]

Alright, the 830 is really starting to piss me off. Something is not right with it, but as far as I can tell, speed is the only thing affected

It could just be some crazy amount of write amplification, but I don't understand why reads are affected.

Samsung 830 64GB Update, Day 13
FW:CXM01B1Q

GiB written:
103395.55

Actual Writes:
97765.9

Avg MB/s
65.83MBs

PE Cycles
6407

Reallocated Sector Count
24576 (12 blocks)
8K pages, 1MiB blocks

320 hours




I added 39GB of static data to the drive to see what would happen.

I'll try to keep the updates coming in while I'm out of town for Christmas. I won't be back for almost two weeks, so I hope the drive and system can make it without me being here physically.

[Anvil]

Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

565.88TB Host writes
Reallocated sectors : 05 14
Available Reserved Space : E8 99
POH 5126
MD5 OK

34.86MiB/s on avg (~28 hours)

--

Corsair Force 3 120GB

01 90/50 (Raw read error rate)
05 2 (Retired Block count)
B1 47 (Wear range delta)
E6 100 (Life curve status)
E7 10 (SSD Life left)
E9 547268 (Raw writes) ->534TiB
F1 728447 (Host writes) ->711TiB

MD5 OK

106.52MiB/s on avg (~28 hours)

power on hours : 2107

--

I had expected the 830 would perform more or less like the 470, the one thing I expected was that avg writes would increase and not the other way around.

[Christopher]

Anvil,

There is something wrong with it. I though about RMa'ing it and starting over, but I was hoping... something... would happen to 'fix' it. Its okay. I have a new drive to test come January.

[Anvil]

I was thinking the RMA word as well, they might be interested in finding what's gone wrong with this particular drive.

[Christopher]

I was thinking the RMA word as well, they might be interested in finding what's gone wrong with this particular drive.

I think I may try and contact Samsung support, but I don't know if I have the patience to explain the situation to whoever the hell is on the other end. But I think you could break every Samsung drive conceivably, under the right conditions, so I'll try anyway. I doubt anyone other than me has encountered this since they'd be yanking them out of Dells and Lenovos overnight if this had happened to too many other people.

It's clearly not some kind of throttling, as reads are more affected than writes, though the writes are pretty bad too.

As such, I believe it to be a firmware bug, something that could only be fixed with a re flash. Possibly not even a firmware update could stop it.

[johnw]

I think I may try and contact Samsung support, but I don't know if I have the patience to explain the situation to whoever the hell is on the other end. But I think you could break every Samsung drive conceivably, under the right conditions, so I'll try anyway

Maybe don't mention that MWI is exhausted until you've explained everything else and let them respond to the other issues. I suspect once you mention that MWI is exhausted (or how much you have written), the support person will blame everything on that, even though there is clearly a firmware bug.

[Christopher]

Maybe don't mention that MWI is exhausted until you've explained everything else and let them respond to the other issues. I suspect once you mention that MWI is exhausted (or how much you have written), the support person will blame everything on that, even though there is clearly a firmware bug.

Yes. That's kinda it in a nutshell. That one little fact will over shadow everything.

"...uummmm is 6500PE cycles a lot?"

"Really? You don't say."

"You think the fact that I bought the drive just to destroy it is relevant? We'll just have to agree to disagree."

[B.A.T]

Todays update:
Kingston V+100
302.1915 TiB
1503 hours
Avg speed 25.39 MiB/s
AD still 1.
168= 1 (SATA PHY Error Count)
P/E?
MD5 OK.
Reallocated sectors : 00


Intel X25-M G1 80GB
152,7166 TiB
19722 hours
Reallocated sectors : 00
MWI=160 to 159.
MD5 =OK
50.03 MiB/s on avg


m4
93.4232 TiB
338 hours
Avg speed 81.16 MiB/s.
AD gone from 52 to 46.
P/E 1627.
MD5 OK.
Reallocated sectors : 00

[Anvil]

Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

568.61TB Host writes
Reallocated sectors : 05 14
Available Reserved Space : E8 99
POH 5150
MD5 OK

33.85MiB/s on avg (~52 hours)

--

Corsair Force 3 120GB

01 94/50 (Raw read error rate)
05 2 (Retired Block count)
B1 45 (Wear range delta)
E6 100 (Life curve status)
E7 10 (SSD Life left)
E9 554109 (Raw writes) ->541TiB
F1 737553 (Host writes) ->720TiB

MD5 OK

106.61MiB/s on avg (~52 hours)

power on hours : 2132

--

[devsk]

Corsair Force 3 120GB

01 94/50 (Raw read error rate)
05 2 (Retired Block count)
B1 45 (Wear range delta)
E6 100 (Life curve status)
E7 10 (SSD Life left)
E9 554109 (Raw writes) ->541TiB
F1 737553 (Host writes) ->720TiB

MD5 OK

106.61MiB/s on avg (~52 hours)

power on hours : 2132

--

Looks like F3 is new horse to bet on to break the 1PB barrier!

[Christopher]

Samsung 830 64GB Update, Day 15
FW:CXM01B1Q

GiB written:
111566.24

Actual Writes:
112445.4

Avg MB/s
62.27MBs

PE Cycles
6672

Reallocated Sector Count
24576 (12 blocks)
8K pages, 1MiB blocks

358 hours




I have a different view of the Samsung's performance; It could just be dead, but instead it works fine and I don't mind leaving it unattended over the holidays.

[B.A.T]

Todays update:
Kingston V+100
304.3754 TiB
1528 hours
Avg speed 25.37 MiB/s
AD still 1.
168= 1 (SATA PHY Error Count)
P/E?
MD5 OK.
Reallocated sectors : 00


Intel X25-M G1 80GB
156,5384 TiB
19747 hours
Reallocated sectors : 00
MWI=159 to 157.
MD5 =OK
49.40 MiB/s on avg


m4
100.4250 TiB
363 hours
Avg speed 81.14 MiB/s.
AD gone from 46 to 42.
P/E 1749.
MD5 OK.
Reallocated sectors : 00

[Christopher]

My X25-E doesnt do that, but maybe I just havent noticed since it only has about 300GB host writes. But it
does kinda seem like the X25-Es Ive seen have had a lot of unsafe shutdown counts.

[minpayne]

My X25-E doesnt do that, but maybe I just havent noticed since it only has about 300GB host writes. But it
does kinda seem like the X25-Es Ive seen have had a lot of unsafe shutdown counts.

If you still have access to your X25-E, could you please post a screenshot of the SMART readings? Mine looks like this:

[B.A.T]

Todays update:
Kingston V+100
306.6465 TiB
1554 hours
Avg speed 25.38 MiB/s
AD still 1.
168= 1 (SATA PHY Error Count)
P/E?
MD5 OK.
Reallocated sectors : 00


Intel X25-M G1 80GB
160,5192 TiB
19773 hours
Reallocated sectors : 00
MWI=157 to 156.
MD5 =OK
48.90 MiB/s on avg


m4
107.6948 TiB
389 hours
Avg speed 81.16 MiB/s.
AD gone from 42 to 38.
P/E 1876.
MD5 OK.
Reallocated sectors : 00

[Anvil]

I've got a few E's, will check later tonight, I've seen the issue but haven't checked those drives.

--

Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

573.97TB Host writes
Reallocated sectors : 05 14
Available Reserved Space : E8 99
POH 5197
MD5 OK

33.30MiB/s on avg (~100 hours)

--

Corsair Force 3 120GB

01 89/50 (Raw read error rate)
05 2 (Retired Block count)
B1 44 (Wear range delta)
E6 100 (Life curve status)
E7 10 (SSD Life left)
E9 563571 (Raw writes) ->550TiB
F1 750143 (Host writes) ->733TiB

MD5 OK

106.69MiB/s on avg (~25 hours)

power on hours : 2179

Somehow I've managed to hit the Stop button while it was running (probably while hitting a button to get the screen out of screen-saver mode) and so it was idling for about 10 hours without me noticing. (next time I'll use the mouse )

I'm pretty confident that this is the first drive that will get past 1PB, it will take another 30 days + 4-5 days of retention testing so about 5 weeks totally.

[minpayne]

Holy ****! Anvil what have you done in the ASU, I think I just ****ed up my 3rd M4 512G (in my 3rd computer)! 4th loop was the death loop (46% application fill), and the computer halted with a **** load of write error displayed in ASU. Is it a problem with the quality control of the flash IC of the 512G model, or is there a flaw of the firmware that doesn't do wear-leveling properly?! I don't think I can be this unlucky to have three (3) bad M4 512G in a row!!!

[Anvil]

There is just one version of the Endurance test that is publicly available and we are all using it.
There is nothing special with the 46% or any of the other compression levels, it's just a write pattern that results in a that particular compression ratio.

It does sound weird that several 512GB are failing, they should behave just like any other m4 drive.

Just for the record, what settings are you using, static file size, min free space etc.

[minpayne]

There is just one version of the Endurance test that is publicly available and we are all using it.
There is nothing special with the 46% or any of the other compression levels, it's just a write pattern that results in a that particular compression ratio.

It does sound weird that several 512GB are failing, they should behave just like any other m4 drive.

Just for the record, what settings are you using, static file size, min free space etc.

The page size of the 256GB/512GB M4 is 8k, while that of the 64GB/128GB M4 is 4k. I have a speculation that the firmware/controller of M4 isn't doing a great job there taking care of the 8k page sized models, which might lead to unexpected wears on certain blocks. Also, it might be a reasonable assumption that the cutting-edge capacity (currently 512GB or 600GB for a 2.5" SATA SSD) always comes with a higher failure rate, just like the mechanical hard drives (e.g. now 4TB drives shouldn't be that reliable at the moment because the manufacturing process isn't that mature yet).

Here I list some details of these three samples of M4 512GB, each on a different machine (I'll try to recall as much as I can and please let me know what you'd like to know). Sample 1 was from an early batch. Sample 2 and 3 were from the same batch at a later time.

Sample 1:

Model: M4 512GB
Factory firmware: 0001
Testing firmware: 0009
Motherboard: ThinkPad X220 SATA III (Intel native). This machine didn't have any problem with Intel X25-E 64GB.
Settings: all default
Static file size: around 380GB
Min free space: 12GB
Avg speed: 100MB/s
Error description: At the beginning I really liked this SSD. Looked very stable. Updated the firmware to 0002 before I installed OS on it. Then one day I started AIDA64 and ran the looped linear read test in the disk benchmark, and the system stability test with disk stress at the same time. The laptop halted within minutes each time I did this. The SSD was not detected by BIOS after reboot and each time I had to use the power cycling method to recover it. Then I updated the BIOS of the laptop from 1.19 to 1.24 and the laptop no longer halted under such tests, and I thought it was just all the laptop's fault. Later on, one day when I was installing a virtual machine, I got 0xF4 BSOD several times, each time upon a burst of writes, and none of the crash dump was successfully written to the SSD, indicating that the SSD went offline. Then I updated the firmware of the SSD to 0009 and seemed to have cured the BSOD problem. I lost trust in the SSD, so I decided to run ASU's Endurance testing on it. Unfortunately with around 380GB static file and the default settings (0-fill, 12GB min free etc), the SSD could be easily forced to go offline within the first loop. The "05 Reallocated Sector Count" and the "C4 Reallocation Event Count" increased crazily. Then I ran "diskpart clean" and used Windows 7 to do a *slow* format (hence 0 static file), and ASU wasn't able to repeat any problem for several loops, which I guess was because Windows marked the bad sectors. Then I did a quick format but ASU wasn't able to repeat any problem for several loops again, which I guess was because Windows copied the information of marked bad sectors. Then I used WinHex to do a DoD fill of the SSD, and it was forced offline easily upon the first loop. Then ASU was able to repeat the problem easily within 1 loop, until several times of failure the SSD was no longer recognized by BIOS regardless of the power cycling method for recovery.

Sample 2:

Model: M4 512GB
Factory firmware: 0002
Testing firmware: 0009
Motherboard: EVGA X58 E760 SATA II (Intel native). This machine didn't have any problem with Intel 320 600GB.
Settings: all default
Static file size: around 320GB
Min free space: 12GB
Avg speed: 80MB/s
Error description: At the beginning the SSD seemed to be stable, until I decided to upgrade the firmware from 0002 to 0009. I noticed 0xF4 BSOD upon bursts of read/write, e.g. verifying the local cache of a Steam game. Then I started AIDA64 and ran the looped linear read test and the system stability test with disk stress at the same time, and I could easily repeat the BSOD within tens of minutes each time. Then I ran ASU's Endurance testing with default settings, and the BSOD could be reproduced very quickly (at the very early stage of the 1st loop). The "05 Reallocated Sector Count" and the "C4 Reallocation Event Count" both stayed at 0.

Sample 3:

Model: M4 512GB
Factory firmware: 0002
Testing firmware: 0002
Motherboard: ASUS P8H67-I SATA III (Intel native)
Settings: all default, except 46% application fill and 1GB min free space
Static file size: around 120GB
Min free space: 1GB
Avg speed: 119MB/s
Error description: This sample didn't seem to be that troublesome but since my partner has been using it and never stressed it like I did I guess it just didn't have the chance to show any problem. I ran ASU's Endurance testing for around 3 loops of 0-fill with 12GB min free space and didn't notice any problem. Then I ran it for another night with 46% application fill with 1GB min free space and the computer lost video signal (and according to the log the computer halted during the 4th loop). At this stage the static data was around 310GB (because ASU didn't have a chance to clean the test files yet) and when I tried to continue running ASU's Endurance testing I got write error straight away (with very slow Avg speed displayed). I clicked "Stop" and all test files were deleted. Then ASU's Endurance testing wasn't able to reproduce the problem for another 3 loops. Still running more tests to see what happens next. The "05 Reallocated Sector Count" ,the "C4 Reallocation Event Count" and the "CA MWI" are all still at 0 at the moment.

[Anvil]

The m4 really should have no problem running the Endurance test, the smaller 64GB did remarkably well and looks to do just as well in round 2.

The amount of static data should be relative to the capacity and so 350-400GB would be OK but 12GB as a minimum of free space would be on the low side for the 256/512GB capacities, you might consider increasing that to at least 16-32GB as that would be more realistic for a drive on the large side.
I keep at least 20-30GB of free space on 256GB drives and that is actually out of my comfort zone.

The relatively slow avg speed might be a pointer to that the drive is struggling with the work-load, I had expected it to be 2x the speed of the m4 64GB.
(the first m4 64GB had an avg speed of 88MiB/s)

Anyways, it should not fail this test in just a few loops!
Personally I'd probably approach the test carefully or stay away from testing that particular drive/model as multiple drives have shown issues with the workload.

So, you could try increasing the minimum free space to 20-30GB as that would be more life-like for client workloads, 1GB is much to low, even for a small drive.
If I can arrange to take one of my C300 or m4 256GB drives out of "production" I'll do a short test sometime during the Christmas holidays.

[B.A.T]

Todays update:
Kingston V+100
308.6083 TiB
1577 hours
Avg speed 25.37 MiB/s
AD still 1.
168= 1 (SATA PHY Error Count)
P/E?
MD5 OK.
Reallocated sectors : 00


Intel X25-M G1 80GB
163,9794 TiB
19796 hours
Reallocated sectors : 00
MWI=156 to 155.
MD5 =OK
48.55 MiB/s on avg


m4
113.9955 TiB
412 hours
Avg speed 81.18 MiB/s.
AD gone from 38 to 34.
P/E 1986.
MD5 OK.
Reallocated sectors : 00

[bulanula]

Any news of those charts, the C300 and Vapor ?