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Thread: Japan quakes

  1. #526
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    At least they probably have the most experience!

  2. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erklat View Post
    They are shutting them down for the next three months for inspection, they are probably going to bring most of them back to use afterwards.
    But you can forget about this in Japan since the Germany is not couple of islands in the middle of the Pacific with the highest population per square kilometer on the planet, with next to no non-renewable power sources. They have no other means to support their industry, windmills and solar will not cut it here so us here probably won't live to see they(or anyone else) abandon nuclear power sources. happens, Japanese are clever and hardworking people and they probably wouldn't build nuclear powerplants on the quake infested islands which are sitting on the junction between four tectonic plates with highest seismic activity on the planet. They had/have no choice.
    They were struck before, and sadly will be struck again, but every time they didn't fail to show the rest of the mankind the results of the hard work and dedication when they built the devastated again only to be bigger and better.
    In two years from now you won't be able to tell anything happened there part from the monument to all the victims. I wish my people were as hardworking and diligent.

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    It's only 3 months, so what, that's enough to review and test their security mechanisms...
    That's the least the gov can do, check and test their reactors... if only to calm down the public

    Quote Originally Posted by dctokyo View Post
    Your Welcome saaya
    A reactor is in cold shutdown when, in addition, its coolant system is at atmospheric pressure and at a temperature below 200 degrees Fahrenheit (approx. 95 degrees Celsius).[1] This temperature is low enough that the water cooling the fuel in a light water reactor does not boil even when the reactor coolant system is de-pressurized.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutdown_(nuclear_reactor)
    Thx, so they are fine but one of the reactors in the other plant is also running a bit hot...
    I'm really worried about the spent rod pool...

  3. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biker View Post
    ..a little history lesson regarding the nuclear industry...

    A fairly good read with some valid points...
    Inaccuracies aside, those 'points' are gratuitous. A fair assessment of nuclear power would also consider the alternatives and their drawbacks (which incidentaly are similar).

  4. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by generics_user View Post
    i wish i had your confidence; in 2 years there will be no one living within a 30-40km radius of that plant if things keep going that way; exposure of the spent fuel pool might cause even higher contamination than a complete meltdown inside of one of the reactors

    i still don't get it how it's even possible that these hydrogen explosions happened and why there is no way to vent the hydrogen directly into the open air instead of the turbine housing which would've caused far less damage to the enviroment
    That really seems like a major design flaw too me.
    That together with non-tsunamiproof basements with sensitive electric connections that prevented them from using auxilary power sources for the cooling seems like one of the major reasons for this catastrophe.
    Edit: storing spent fuel rods inside the reactor buildings seems really stupid too. At least they should have been stored somewhere inland. That would have protected them and their cooling system from the tsunami.
    Last edited by Dr_Swizz; 03-16-2011 at 03:57 AM.

  5. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    It's only 3 months, so what, that's enough to review and test their security mechanisms...
    That's the least the gov can do, check and test their reactors... if only to calm down the public.
    Thorough safety checks might actually help more than you think.
    From what have I seem & read over the years safety on many of the old nuclear plants can be rather low. The worst I have heard so far is probably something that was mentioned on a newscast on Monday: On one nuclear plant in the US the backup diesel generators that are supposed to be able to support cooling of the plant in the case of an emergency had been in an inoperable state for a period of 20 years (from 1986 to 2006)!

  6. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    Germany is shutting down all pre 1980 reactors NOW and reviewing security of ALL German reactors! Great news... I don't get why nobody else is doing this...
    Govs and the nuclear industry have to show that they take this seriously!
    Our government depends on the consent of the operators to turn them off. They should've never extended the life of those nuclear power plants in the first place... But hey, we don't have enough energy and energy would be more expensive if we had not done that ... NOT. Energy from coal plants is cheaper and would be way more cheaper if the operators had to insure the nuclear power plants correctly and had to pay for the final disposal of the nuclear waste. Instead, they let the people pay that and subsidize nuclear power this way. Germany produces way more energy than it needs, even when those eight old power plants are taken off the grid. What our gov is doing now is pure actionism in fear of the coming elections. The next election will be in Baden Württemberg and their top dog there is know to be a fan of nuclear power. They fear losing the elections in BaWü, that's all. They don't care about the life of us dirty peasants.

    All the CDU/CSU and FDP does is for the good of the shareholders and companies. Yesterday they said that security now has priority over econimical reasons. Wait? Security wasn't more important than the money purse of the big companies before the Fukushima accident? Hypocrites.
    Last edited by FischOderAal; 03-16-2011 at 04:51 AM.
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  7. #532
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  8. #533
    Notice any grammar or spelling mistakes? Feel free to correct me! Thanks

  9. #534
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    Guys...according to current numbers, Tokyo radiation level 20x higher than normal...

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  10. #535
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    Compared to Chernobyl where radiation level was 1000x higher than normal...

  11. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking View Post
    Compared to Chernobyl where radiation level was 1000x higher than normal...
    tokio is 250km from fukushima...

    this is a serious accident and no one knows what's going to happen next

    sure you can't expect graphite fires and a fully exposed reactor together with contamination of an entire continent like in chernobyl
    however it's very likely that this will result in a serious contamination of ground water for many years and we still don't know if they're able to refill the spent fuel pools,

    PS: don't forget that some of the seawater they pump into the reactors over the next few days (or weeks) is going to vaporize and transport nuclear particles to other countries in asia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ugly n Grey
    quick someone argue with him, I can't since he's making perfect sense

  13. #538
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    Status of quake-stricken reactors at Fukushima nuclear power plants as of Wednesday evening

    The following is the known status as of Wednesday evening of each of the six reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant and the four reactors at the Fukushima No. 2 plant, both in Fukushima Prefecture, which were crippled by Friday’s magnitude 9.0 earthquake and the ensuing tsunami.

    Fukushima No. 1 plant

    —Reactor No. 1 - Suspended after quake, cooling failure, partial melting of core, vapor vented, building damaged Saturday by hydrogen explosion, seawater being pumped in.

    —Reactor No. 2 - Suspended after quake, cooling failure, seawater being pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, vapor vented, building housing reactor damaged Monday by blast at reactor No. 3, damage to containment vessel on Tuesday, potential meltdown feared.

    —Reactor No. 3 - Suspended after quake, cooling failure, partial melting of core feared, vapor vented, seawater being pumped in, building housing reactor damaged Monday by hydrogen explosion, high-level radiation measured nearby on Tuesday, plume of smoke observed Wednesday, damage to containment vessel likely.

    —Reactor No. 4 - Under maintenance when quake struck, fire Tuesday possibly caused by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, abnormal temperature rise in spent-fuel storage pool but water level not observed, fire observed Wednesday at building housing reactor, no water poured in to cool pool, spraying of boric acid being considered.

    —Reactors No. 5, No. 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck, temperatures slightly rising in spent-fuel storage pools.

    Fukushima No. 2 plant

    —Reactors No. 1, No. 2, No. 4 - Suspended after quake, cooling failure, then cold shutdown.

    —Reactor No. 3 - Suspended after quake, cold shutdown.

  14. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking View Post
    Compared to Chernobyl where radiation level was 1000x higher than normal...
    This is still something very serious... Think about the workers still working in the plant, risking their lives to prevent something else from happening.

  15. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaterFlex View Post
    Guys...according to current numbers, Tokyo radiation level 20x higher than normal...
    Sorry, guys. I take my words back
    According to http://mu.jklmnop.net/japan/

    the normal level is 15-18 cpm

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  16. #541
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    According to experts Tokyo will be fine even in worst case scenario because of the height that the radiation would reach only ~500m even if the reactors exploded and wind blowing towards Tokyo. Ofc they'd still face higher than normal levels but not any serious health danger.

    Here's some good info http://ukinjapan.fco.gov.uk/en/news/...s&id=566811882

    EDIT: If you donate to the japan red cross bank account, does it matter if I donate in my own currency or should I use yen?
    Last edited by RPGWiZaRD; 03-16-2011 at 06:57 AM.
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  17. #542
    Can any of our Japanese friends confirm this? I hope it's not true.
    Japan has banned all its government agencies, including its nuclear regulatory and protection agencies, from issuing any statements about the nuclear crisis situation in Japan, according to Yochi Shimatsu, former editor of the Japan Times.

    Statements will only be issued from the senior level of the Japanese government.

    "Article 15" is an article unfamiliar to most Japanese, including most Japanese journalists. It is apparently an emergency regulatory clause that allows the senior levels of the Japanese government to stop other Japanese government agencies from communicating with the public and news media.
    http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com...rticle-15.html
    Notice any grammar or spelling mistakes? Feel free to correct me! Thanks

  18. #543
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    If it gets this chaotic situation on statements and news in to check, I don't see that as bad thing. It will ensure that data goes to who needs it most first. There is too much sensationalist journalists boosting their readings with at worst fully untrue news and even in most cases with full of mistakes.

  19. #544
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    + Avoiding potential confusing or even paranoidism of when people spreading false info that they think is true. So it's not only a negative thing in case it's true. The information should be provided quickly to those who NEEDS it though.
    Last edited by RPGWiZaRD; 03-16-2011 at 07:04 AM.
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  20. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by FischOderAal View Post
    Our government depends on the consent of the operators to turn them off. They should've never extended the life of those nuclear power plants in the first place... But hey, we don't have enough energy and energy would be more expensive if we had not done that ... NOT. Energy from coal plants is cheaper and would be way more cheaper if the operators had to insure the nuclear power plants correctly and had to pay for the final disposal of the nuclear waste. Instead, they let the people pay that and subsidize nuclear power this way. Germany produces way more energy than it needs, even when those eight old power plants are taken off the grid. What our gov is doing now is pure actionism in fear of the coming elections. The next election will be in Baden Württemberg and their top dog there is know to be a fan of nuclear power. They fear losing the elections in BaWü, that's all. They don't care about the life of us dirty peasants.

    All the CDU/CSU and FDP does is for the good of the shareholders and companies. Yesterday they said that security now has priority over econimical reasons. Wait? Security wasn't more important than the money purse of the big companies before the Fukushima accident? Hypocrites.
    True, but hey they are doing at least this... nobody else is doing anything at all so far... the arrogance and stubbornness is amazing... nobody wants to accept that this COULD happen in their country as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanical Man View Post
    If it gets this chaotic situation on statements and news in to check, I don't see that as bad thing. It will ensure that data goes to who needs it most first. There is too much sensationalist journalists boosting their readings with at worst fully untrue news and even in most cases with full of mistakes.
    Well, why is this happening to begin with?
    If the gov would have held regularly press conferences telling people what's going on, nobody would pay attention to random blogs and rumors...
    Censoring all communication only makes things worse imo...
    It won't stop blogs and rumors, it'll result in even less reliable news getting out and more rumor spreading...

    And Tokyo being safe even in a worst case scenario... sorry I don't buy that...

  21. #546
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    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_41.html

    They aborted the attempt to refill the spent fuel rod pool VIA helicopter cause radiation was too high?
    Is this a joke? Radiation is only going to get worse if they don't refill it...
    And supposedly the radiation was 50mSv?
    Wtf? And that's too high? I thought the plant was around 400mSv and that's not health threatening?

    My guess is the radiation is much higher than 50mSv ...

  22. #547
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    http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_44.html

    Good!
    Us is installing equipment to measure radioactivity at fukushima.
    I hope they make all results public and offer a live stream...

  23. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    Well, why is this happening to begin with?
    If the gov would have held regularly press conferences telling people what's going on, nobody would pay attention to random blogs and rumors...
    Censoring all communication only makes things worse imo...
    It won't stop blogs and rumors, it'll result in even less reliable news getting out and more rumor spreading...

    And Tokyo being safe even in a worst case scenario... sorry I don't buy that...
    Doesn't matter, even when they would given them realtime information, there would be hundred of people who would say it isn't ture, all lies and spin there own stories and influence other people to belive it and maybe even a bigger news company gets notice of this.

    The japanes have my utmost respect, because they still stay calm and disciplined in such a situation, there no looting, no riots, no fighting about supplies even in the regions that got hit the worse... if any other country in the world would have been hit by that there would be such things on a large scale...

  24. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    And Tokyo being safe even in a worst case scenario... sorry I don't buy that...
    Even after chernobyl's runaway melt down and closure the quarantine/uninhabited zone is largely relegated to like a 20 mile perimeter of the facility, Tokyo should be safe. With how things are sounding it makes you wonder if they should just cut their losses on the plant at this point and bury the facility in sand and concrete like chernobyl.

    Not that I would want to be that close to a damaged plant but we're all going to have to deal with potential Nuclear incidents at some point considering all fossil fuels are a finite resources. Demand for electricity from the grid is only going to continue to increase world wide as will the rate of fossil fuel depletion there are not allot of alternatives in the long term.

    If you live in florida you pretty much have Nuclear plants tokyo distance from you wherever you live in the state.
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  25. #550
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    Ok, Guys.
    Japanese goverment was denying landing of russian airplane with the best nuclear experts onboard for about 10 hours...

    But now there is good news: russians entered Fukushima !
    Last edited by WaterFlex; 03-16-2011 at 08:10 AM.

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