NVIDIA to Counter Radeon HD 6970 ''Cayman'' with GeForce GTX 580

[RPGWiZaRD]

+1

It used to be good and I've always appriciated how the mods of this forum haven't been control freaks and let the forum users act pretty much freely but lately I think this forum could use some more moderation. These days it's hard to read a thread (especially in News section) without seeing at least some people trolling/flame baiting or in general acting rather retarded.

4chan standards isn't far away anymore, let's not sink that deep.

[kadozer]

edit: This is no different forum chatter than the previous 3+ years before a new series release. Heated discussions and a little flaming here and there are the norm every new generation.

[Sadasius]

edit: This is no different forum chatter than the previous 3+ years before a new series release. Heated discussions and a little flaming here and there are the norm every new generation.

I very much agree.

I am just wondering what kind of 'grill' pics will come forward with this card if it see's the light of day. The last round with the GTX480's were pretty funny. Also liked the ATI batmobile picture as well. Should have a fanboi picture contest. The one's who can best diss the opponents in a pic get the prize or something. Might as well make it creative. I find it rather amusing.

[highoctane]

edit: This is no different forum chatter than the previous 3+ years before a new series release. Heated discussions and a little flaming here and there are the norm every new generation.

Very true but I don't think anything has come close to the original fermi thread/s, and it's always just a handful of instigators that create a ruckus. I mean four people can battle over 20 pages in a day over an out of place resistor on a leaked picture.

[dengyong]

padawan???

It's a Star Wars reference... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi

[570091D]

Man you guys need to calm down, especially you 570091D.

i know man.... i know it's all interwebs hob-knobery, but at the same time it would be nice to log into XS and take part in a reasonable discussion about up and coming tech.

sigh...

that's why they need to name it 420 ... so they could pull of some sales with a special crowd

I am a bit pessimistic based only on the fact that Nvidia's CEO is a BIT of a douche

[Sam_oslo]

Very true but I don't think anything has come close to the original fermi thread/s, and it's always just a handful of instigators that create a ruckus. I mean four people can battle over 20 pages in a day over an out of place resistor on a leaked picture.

The original Fermi-thread was the start of a new era. It was full of speculations about an unreleased product, based on ideas from a genius insider, and genius Charlie, about a under-performing, un-manufactureable Fermi. But they changed the focus to other issues after the release.

GPU-discussions has always beet hot, but it has always been based on personal expressions and reliable tests/benches. We got a new and disturbing trend after those original Fermi discussions, which is based on propaganda for creating negative impression and kill a product before it's release.
We see the same trend in SB-tread too now days.

This new trend, is about creating negative impression before the release of a product, based on propaganda that starts from a few known sites (like that genius Charlie), and keeps going by a few known "propaganda agents" in many forums (including this one).

Those known sites, and few known propaganda agents (which all gets payed directly, or indirectly) start discussions that involves innocent people in fights. Usually starts with funny comments by known people, and before you know it a "wolf pack" will be on you with all kind of personal attacks and rude comments. In this way, those innocent people gets involved emotionally against a brand ( a GPU before release, in this case) , and therefore they end up paying more for the other brand, happily. Because they get attached emotionally. At the same time, they create negative impression and try to kill a GPU before it's release.

[Solus Corvus]

Sam_oslo, you have complained about this before and it appears to me to be a thinly veiled ad hominem attack. Speculation, even negative speculation, can turn out to be true or false regardless of who is saying it. Accusing a vaguely defined group (apparently anyone who has a negative thought about your favorite products) as being propaganda agents does nothing to address the truth or falsehood of their statements and is the very definition of an ad hominem.

Are there paid shill sites and users (on this forum even)? Almost certainly. Do all of them work for AMD? Doubtful. Are there fanboys here? Definitely. Are all of them AMD fanboys? Nope.

Here is a helpful phrase to remember when in a discussion/debate/argument to avoid this type of fallacious reasoning: "Attack the argument, not the person".

[Sam_oslo]

"Attack the argument, not the person" can only be archived by technical facts based on reliable tests/benches.

It's always fun to have ideas about upcoming products, but when people start speculating page on pages about resistors, yield, etc. and insist on their own speculations, then it's doomed to end up as childish fights and personal attacks and rude comments.

Most of us are here to discuss technical aspect of HW, and we need hard cold facts for that. But a few known figures are more interested in funny and rude comments that starts childish fights. In my book, these are "propaganda agents" that misuse other innocent peoples emotions. They get you involved emotionally, and make you pay extra, happily .

We need to exchange facts (based on owe experiences and reliable tests/benches) in a polite and friendly environment, then we all can learn from each other, and make educated choices. Those few "propaganda agents" has made it almost imposable to have a constructive discussion and learn from each other.

[spursindonesia]

LOL, i attacked the argument of GTX 480 being 26% faster than HD 5870 on AVERAGE coming from a math challenged member (while stating that GTX 480 does have the single chip performance leadership around 15-20% over HD 5870 on AVERAGE), and i got FAIL TROLL label in which the label giver simply gave one bench result sample to support that FUD claim and rebutted my counter argument as talking in semantics. Yeah, there are paid shills as being suggested in this forum, aren't they ?? Perhaps the issue bearer is included ?

[Xoulz]

"Attack the argument, not the person" can only be archived by technical facts based on reliable tests/benches.

It's always fun to have ideas about upcoming products, but when people start speculating page on pages about resistors, yield, etc. and insist on their own speculations, then it's doomed to end up as childish fights and personal attacks and rude comments.

Most of us are here to discuss technical aspect of HW, and we need hard cold facts for that. But a few known figures are more interested in funny and rude comments that starts childish fights. In my book, these are "propaganda agents" that misuse other innocent peoples emotions. They get you involved emotionally, and make you pay extra, happily .

We need to exchange facts (based on owe experiences and reliable tests/benches) in a polite and friendly environment, then we all can learn from each other, and make educated choices. Those few "propaganda agents" has made it almost imposable to have a constructive discussion and learn from each other.

Sorry bro... but emotions..?

If you bring emotions to a forum, then you are of a completely different ilk than me, or anyone I know. Unless they are a women (who inherently tend to hold their emotions on their sleeves). I suspect I am no different than many here & hold no favoritism for any brand and am willing to discuss the virtues of each with a logical approach. As again, I suspect the over all majority of this community does as well.

To that end, Fermi and Nvidia in the last 2 years has done nothing logical for me as an end user. That doesn't mean I automatically like ATi.. their products have to prove themselves too.

And logically, they do.



This is a technical discussion, what unstable tard brings emotion into a geek forum..?

[saaya]

wth are you guys talking about? its the disagreeing and heated debates that make this place so interesting and entertaining
spursindonesia, dont try to explain things to oslo, he doesnt want to learn anything :P

[Sam_oslo]

Disagreeing is good and interesting. Different ideas gets you closer to the fact, but ... (and it's a big butt ) it should be based on facts, and respect in a polite and friendly environment.

Funny comments, rude discussions, and childish fights is not interesting.

[spursindonesia]

Yeah, well, i dunno man, sometime personal emotion & attachment can & does get in the way, over logical way of thought. It affects me too at times, but most of the time not related to technology & products, especially coming from corporations that ALL lusting over our money.

nVidia is a great company, still (up to this point) the leader of 3D graphic world. They have great moments & products (as my ex cards such as 6600 GT, 8800 GT, and 8800 GTS testified), and as the wheel of fortune in life gets rotating, also bear some misfortunes & subpar products. This situation happens to ATi aka AMD graphic division too. I've never wished any of them to fail so hard then succumbing to bankruptcy, that would be a total misfortune for me as consumer. I

just want both companies to work as hard as they could in delivering better value to us as consumers, and not using questionable tactics to stiffle competition. That does get me on the opposite side of the green corner moreso than the red corner, but understandably so, considering their market leader position & the temptation to use their dominance in strengthening their position by creating exclusivity rather than always striving hard for increasing their product value in a fair manner. Perhaps if AMD becomes market leader one day (especially in the consumer graphic market, since professiona market seems tightly led & held by nVidia) and trying the same distasteful tactics, i will be as much critical as of today, that's one thing for sure.

[SpuTnicK]

sorry if this was posted earlier

[spursindonesia]

sorry if this was posted earlier

384 bit buswidth and 1.5 GB VRAM are quite probable for this new card from nVidia, but pulling (convincingly & undisputedly) ahead of Cayman is rather difficult IMHO, since AMD has more wiggle room compared to nVidia considering the diesize & power budget allowed by the current TSMC's 40 nm process, UNLESS nVidia succesfully injects more efficiency into their current best perf./die are performer, GF 104.

I won't say that's impossible, but even if they could achieve that feat, i really doubt they can make it before Q1 2011. If it just a 50% enlarged GF 104, sure, we might see a paper launch aka technological demo soon, and they might just get some samples on the shelves by christmas. And that's a quite optimistic side of me that does the talking. I might be farting out of my rear though, since all of them are just my conjectures. We'll see, a miracle comeback could always happen.

regards.

[bamtan2]

+1

It used to be good and I've always appriciated how the mods of this forum haven't been control freaks and let the forum users act pretty much freely but lately I think this forum could use some more moderation. These days it's hard to read a thread (especially in News section) without seeing at least some people trolling/flame baiting or in general acting rather retarded.

4chan standards isn't far away anymore, let's not sink that deep.

stop replying and the thread will disappear

this is my last post in it, how about you

[iMacmatician]

Does anyone know anything about this (from B3D)?



The roadmap posted several pages back has a gap between GF112 and GF119, maybe a GF117 would fill it? Doesn't explain why there's no GF112 in this picture though.

[Solus Corvus]

"Attack the argument, not the person" can only be archived by technical facts based on reliable tests/benches.

Untrue. You can always choose to address someone's argument instead of choosing to try and discredit them as a person. If their argument is based on unsubstantiated rumor without logical foundation then you can attack it on that basis. Choosing to attack a person is exactly why conversations devolve into rudeness.

It's always fun to have ideas about upcoming products, but when people start speculating page on pages about resistors, yield, etc. and insist on their own speculations, then it's doomed to end up as childish fights and personal attacks and rude comments.

Most of us are here to discuss technical aspect of HW, and we need hard cold facts for that. But a few known figures are more interested in funny and rude comments that starts childish fights. In my book, these are "propaganda agents" that misuse other innocent peoples emotions. They get you involved emotionally, and make you pay extra, happily .

We need to exchange facts (based on owe experiences and reliable tests/benches) in a polite and friendly environment, then we all can learn from each other, and make educated choices. Those few "propaganda agents" has made it almost imposable to have a constructive discussion and learn from each other.

You don't need hard facts to engage in speculation. That's entirely the point of speculation. Arguments can proceed from known facts into unsubstantiated territory by following logic. Discussions about that speculation can focus on the validity of that logic.

In the Fermi threads you complained that I (among others) were engaging too much in speculation without facts. Yet my first guess (30%) turned out to be reasonably close while your first guess (50-60%) was shown to be wrong before the thread was even over. I was able to make a reasonable guess because I based it on known facts and a few logical assumptions. If you or anyone else in that thread wanted to discuss the logic behind my estimates I would have gladly elaborated. But instead all I got was pushback from fanboys on both sides.

This is not a new phenomenon since the fermi threads, however, as you suggest. Flamewars and trolling has existed since long before the web even existed. I remember the nasty arguments on BBSes, Usenet, and IRC. Discussions get this way because the participants make it personal instead of sticking to the facts and logic. "Attack the argument, not the person" has been a debating principle for well over a thousand years and is just, or even more, relevant today as it was back then.



How does this all relate to the topic at hand? Well we can discuss the likelihood of these GTX580 rumors on the basis of logic. Just because we don't have all the facts doesn't mean that we can't discuss the subject. Just because we are speculating doesn't make us propaganda agents for AMD or Nvidia - and accusing some random people as such does nothing to elevate the level of discussion. You say you want friendly and polite discussion but only after coming in the thread and accusing some people of being paid shills. That's neither friendly or polite.

I'm speculating that making an even bigger chip than gf100 to counter AMD wouldn't be a good choice for Nvidia. I suspect that they will use the same size or smaller chips and compete based on clocks and multi-chip configurations. The proper way to counter my argument wouldn't be to call me a market-molesting fanboy. But rather find out why I think this is the case and address the flaws in my reasoning, or to propose a more likely scenario yourself.

[STEvil]

Does anyone know anything about this (from B3D)?



The roadmap posted several pages back has a gap between GF112 and GF119, maybe a GF117 would fill it? Doesn't explain why there's no GF112 in this picture though.

look just below the 119 in your picture

[T_M]

look just below the 119 in your picture

He said GF112 - of which there is none in the picture

[Marduk_25]

GeForce GTX 580 appeared on Nvidia's website. Anyone betting on this being a coincidence?

http://www.tcmagazine.com/tcm/news/h...tx-580-listing

[Dimitriman]

Its not coincidence... its called FUD.
Nvidia's marketing team have a phd on it. Its just a name for a product that is either not going to be anything unexpected (dual gf104) or is 6 months away from release.

[Olivon]

Nvidia GeForce GTX 580 expected to perform 20% faster than 480 - Digitimes

Nvidia is preparing to launch its GF110-based GeForce GTX 580 by the end of November or early December 2010 with performance 20% faster than its current GeForce GTX 480, according to sources from graphics card makers.

After GF110, Nvidia is also set to gradually unveil its GF112, GF114 and GF119 in 2011 with market positions similar to its GF104, GF106 and GF108, respectively. The company is also preparing to announce 28nm Kepler GPUs by the end of 2011 and is currently developing Maxwell as Kepler's successor.

Meanwhile, AMD plans to launch two new GPUs under the Radeon HD 6000-series by the end of this week with a price point of NT$6,600-8,500 (US$214-275) and the company will also launch more new products in November and December

[kadozer]

Do the fish ever stop coming up to take Nvidia's marketing bait?