2x X25-V vs. everything else review.....

[jalyst]

Because 2x X25-V in R0 can not be near 2x faster than a single X25-M. They should be faster, but not 2x, which is absurd.

As soon as I see a large inconsistency like that, the whole benchmark loses validity in my mind.

Edit: to expand, the numbers don't make any sense. Specifically on the heavy trace. A lot of what they do is dependent on sequential writes, which is why we see drives high in that attribute near the top. The X25-M does poorly in comparison to other MLCs that do offer high seq writes, which makes sense. However, the fact that their 80MB/s write speed raid is suddenly 2x faster than a single X25-M which is also 80MB/s makes zero sense whatsoever. The extra read speed of the raid should help, but nowhere near 2x. They either messed something up in this particular benchmark or the whole thing is crap.

Edit2: to expand further, comparing both setups:

Seq read - 370 vs 255
Seq write - 80 vs 80
4kb r write - 60 vs 40
4kb r read - 60 vs 60

The controllers they are using (X25-V and X25-M) are very similar so the speed of reading + writing at once (also very important for the heavy trace, in fact this is why X25-E is the top drive) should be similar.

With that in mind, it does not follow that their trace should spit out 2x higher numbers in favor of the RAID. I would think around 25% higher would be appropriate.

I think he addresses this in his explanation of the benchmark results:

The performance scaling is more than perfect, but that's a side effect of the increase in capacity. Remember that Intel's controller uses any available space on the SSD as spare area to keep write amplification at a minimum. Our storage bench is based on a ~34GB image, which doesn't leave much room for the 40GB X25-V to keep write amplification under control. With two our total capacity is 74.5GB, which is more than enough for this short workload. With the capacity cap removed, the X25-Vs can scale very well. Not nearly twice the performance of an X25-M G2, but much faster than a single drive from Intel

[onex]

one_hertz,
you know, saying a thing like that about anand, is going offlline IMO,
the guy is doing SUCH a great work, he put so much effort in explaining, adding images, talking with people, it leaves u speechless.
he answers e-mails, even if u bug him, even if u don't show phenomenal knowledge.
anand's reviews can be literally trusted almost blindfold,
he AFAIK, does the best job there is out there, and doubtfully if anyone can say other,
and many people owe him a lot.
u should read his SSD Relapse article if u haven't, see what he did with indlinex and they're barefoot controller for the vertex line,
he's work, is a work of a master,
u read it, and u just thank you know who for that the guy is out there.

the most extreme to think at these situation, is either they missed something, or they have made some mistake,
they won't cheat and won't play games,
doesn't seem like them..

as for the article,
great ending with that trim needed point,
shows the beautiful work intel did with they're controller,
heads up for this site,
they got a new sweet design too now.

[Ao1]

I’m not knocking Anandtech, however in my view the Storage Benchmarks is a bit OTT. That is not a criticism per say as it highlights the fact that you need to be extreme to show a performance difference in ssd’s. Whilst this helps differentiate faster from slower ssd’s I don’t think it helps an average user understand what would be faster in normal use. In that context the tests are a little misleading.

I think the queue depths that Anandtech use are based on what might occur with a hard drive not a solid state drive and the 30GB test file is just way to big.

With regards to raid, the comments in the review reveal more than the article. (Thanks to GullLars)

Just my 2 cents.

One bit I don’t understand is the new 4k aligned test. I understand drive alignment but why align a test?

[zalbard]

You can even use TRIM with 2x X25-V Raid0 now, can't you? Looks like a better purchase than a single X25-M in this case.

[jalyst]

unfortunately no TRIM, see review.

[zalbard]

unfortunately no TRIM, see review.

What about this, then? And yeah, I read the review, or I wouldn't have asked.

[One_Hertz]

anand's reviews can be literally trusted almost blindfold.

That is silly. Nobody is to be trusted blindfolded. Everyone makes mistakes.

the most extreme to think at these situation, is either they missed something, or they have made some mistake,
they won't cheat and won't play games,
doesn't seem like them..

This is what I was saying. I never said that this was done on purpose.

[jalyst]

This is what I was saying. I never said that this was done on purpose.

yeah but if you look at my post I'm not sure he deliberately/accidentally missed anything
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...33#post4317933

[Biker]

$98.99 with free shipping... not bad

Now who wants to grab 4 for me and ship them to the UK?

[Ao1]

What about this, then? And yeah, I read the review, or I wouldn't have asked.

Misinformation.....read the rest of the thread for details. A non raid member will trim. A raid array member will not.

[Ao1]

$98.99 with free shipping... not bad

Now who wants to grab 4 for me and ship them to the UK?

I've not used this company before but hey £71

http://www.kikatek.com/product_info....source=froogle

[One_Hertz]

you but if you look at my post I'm not sure he deliberately/accidentally missed anything
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...33#post4317933

Your post is not addressing anything that I have written. I was comparing an X25-M to an X25-V.

The really simple version of what I am saying:

X25-M is faster than X25-V (it does have more channels/chips after all), therefore two X25-Vs in R0 can not be 91% faster (heavy trace) or 95% faster (gaming trace) than a single X25-M.

[zalbard]

Misinformation.....read the rest of the thread for details. A non raid member will trim. A raid array member will not.

That sucks, I read through the whole thing a few times now to find the wording issue.
Thanks!
Sorry about the confusion.

[Metroid]

The really simple version of what I am saying:

X25-M is faster than X25-V (it does have more channels/chips after all), therefore two X25-Vs in R0 can not be 91% faster (heavy trace) or 95% faster (gaming trace) than a single X25-M.

Can 1 x X25-M divides its chips to each SATA port or Can 1 x X25-M raid itself? yes it is not possible.
RAID may achieve 2x performance. This is a basic perspective of the technology, like Crossfire or SLI. So in theory 2 x X25-V = 200% which in practice or real world usage is not true, although some benchmarks may achieve that.

[Biker]

I've not used this company before but hey £71

http://www.kikatek.com/product_info....source=froogle

Woo!

Nice find!

Thank you

Edit: sold out

Oh well...

Thanks for trying though

[Metroid]

Kingston 40GB SSDNow V Series Solid State Drive has already been declared end of life. You could buy the X25-V from Scan, had an offer of £88 tax included.

[Biker]

Very true but they are currently available for £66 across the water +del

Ultimate aim: SSD array @ £50 per drive

[Metroid]

Yes, buying 4 from there would save you almost £100. It is worth, you need 2 people as Newegg limited only 2 items per customer.

[Biker]

Yes, buying 4 from there would save you almost £100. It is worth, you need 2 people as Newegg limited only 2 items per customer.

Ah the good old 2 per customer bs....

Missed that

Well in athat case anyone in the market for these with any sense would have already maxed that out

[onex]

That is silly. Nobody is to be trusted blindfolded. Everyone makes mistakes.

anand's reviews can be literally trusted almost blindfold.

that's why the almost is added, if it can be said, we all owe him some credit...
though enough said on that, if u understand, i think, last post has made it clear .

This is what I was saying. I never said that this was done on purpose.

say, MM account would be hacked, and u get his posts saying some crappy stuff, would you say "huh this man is F up"? or u'll figure out something is wrong here..?
not trying to create something over it, but i think we should dearly appreciate what he's doing..,
or check few times what were saying .. .
enough of that.

[One_Hertz]

Can 1 x X25-M divides its chips to each SATA port or Can 1 x X25-M raid itself? yes it is not possible.
RAID may achieve 2x performance. This is a basic perspective of the technology, like Crossfire or SLI. So in theory 2 x X25-V = 200% which in practice or real world usage is not true, although some benchmarks may achieve that.

OMFG read what I am saying.

2 x X25-V can indeed equal 200% OF AN X25-V in a few scenarios. It can not randomly equal 200% of a FASTER DRIVE (X25-M).

[jalyst]

Your post is not addressing anything that I have written. I was comparing an X25-M to an X25-V.

The really simple version of what I am saying:

X25-M is faster than X25-V (it does have more channels/chips after all), therefore two X25-Vs in R0 can not be 91% faster (heavy trace) or 95% faster (gaming trace) than a single X25-M.

Hmm that's strange...
Anand himself told me that he addresses the concerns in your post in his explanation of the benchmark results:

The performance scaling is more than perfect, but that's a side effect of the increase in capacity. Remember that Intel's controller uses any available space on the SSD as spare area to keep write amplification at a minimum. Our storage bench is based on a ~34GB image, which doesn't leave much room for the 40GB X25-V to keep write amplification under control. With two our total capacity is 74.5GB, which is more than enough for this short workload. With the capacity cap removed, the X25-Vs can scale very well. Not nearly twice the performance of an X25-M G2, but much faster than a single drive from Intel

Perhaps he too is not understanding what you were trying to say...

[lowfat]

$98.99 with free shipping... not bad

Now who wants to grab 4 for me and ship them to the UK?

2 per customer. I picked one up for the hell of it.

[jalyst]

Misinformation.....read the rest of the thread for details. A non raid member will trim. A raid array member will not.

Beat me to the punch
Read that much earlier, meant to post that it was mis-information too.

[Metroid]

2 x X25-V can indeed equal 200% OF AN X25-V in a few scenarios. It can not randomly equal 200% of a FASTER DRIVE (X25-M).

Well you said yourself "91% faster (heavy trace) or 95% faster (gaming trace)", the "heavy trace" can be attributed to the hard drive space bottleneck, the "gaming trace" can be attributed to the 2x read speed and also some bottleneck one X25-V may have. The results seems very accurate and clear, perhaps you could email Anand Lai Shimpi and ask him about it.

If for you I still can not understand anything you are trying to say then disregard my post.

2 per customer. I picked one up for the hell of it.

Good choice