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Thread: Little River "White Water" - Micro-channel jet-impingement water-block

  1. #1
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    Little River "White Water" - Micro-channel jet-impingement water-block

    Hi All,

    Just discovered these forums. Many names here familiar to me. I thought I'd share this water-block that I've been developing here with you guys.

    A while ago I developed a concept prototype block that focused on merging the concepts of jet-impingement, micro-channels, and ultra-thin bases, that focussed purely on cooling CPU dies of the P4/AMD size, and making no concessions for peltier cooling performance. That is, I wanted to see if water-block performance had reached a peak since all the current designs are performing roughly the same, or if there was more to be gained.

    The "journey" is detailed in a monster thread over at Overclocker's Australia here.

    After much research, and development with a very friendly batch of machinists, the near-final blocks look like this:







    Note that in this picture the nozzle in the central plate differs slightly from the final design. We've just moved house and I've packed up my digital camera so a more up to date picture will have to wait.

    The top plate uses 3 x 1/2" barbs (with 3/8" BSP/NPT threads - meaning that if you wanted to fit 5/8" barbs this would not be a problem), 1 inlet in the middle, through the nozzle in the middle plate jetting down and impinging directly over the CPU core area, then splitting out to the two outlets. The two outlets are merged back together again by an external Y-piece.

    The total block dimensions are 80mm x 50mm x 12.5mm (not including the barbs) and will fit a Socket A motherboard through the 4 mounting holes. An additional aluminium mounting plate with longer clamping screws is an optional extra for Intel P4 Socket 478 mounting.

    So how does it perform?

    Performance of the final design is slightly better than the prototype that I demonstated in the OCAU thread mentioned above. For an AthlonXP @ 1925MHz/2.15v I'm seeing >5C better full load on-die temperatures on my motherboard than with either a properly lapped and mounted Silverprop Cyclone 5, or a properly lapped and mounted Maze 3 (both of which perform about the same being within 0.5C of each other). For a Duron @ 1200MHz/2.15v the difference is 3C, for a P4 @ 2.6GHz/1.8v the difference is also 3C. For me, a better overclock of the CPU was achieved in all cases.

    People who have gotten a block off me have reported performance increases ranging from 4-6C over their old waterblocks, which have included Maze 3, Silverprop Cyclone 5, DTek TC-4, Swiftech MCW462-UH for Athlons, and a 3-5C gain vs the Maze 3 on P4 systems.

    I've since had a batch of blocks made up and a few people have acquired some from me. There's a results comparison thread over here which seems to back up my own research:

    http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...hreadid=109948

    Basically the block was designed on a thermal simulator I wrote, and I then tweaked it through several revisions via a very tolerant group of excellent machinists who made the block up for me. The size of the cooling performance really surprised me. I had begun to think there for a while that we really had reached a peak in block performance.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Cathar; 11-19-2002 at 06:37 PM.

  2. #2
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    I love your block man. As things stand right now i have 2 danger den maze 2's so i'm not in need of a new one. That block is truly something innovative and i look foreward to seeing more from you in the future!
    DFI Lanparty NF4, A64 3200+ @ 2.5, 1gig BH5/6, 80GB JB, 2x 120gb seagate SATA Raid 0.
    HeatWare|My 04 R/T Neon| My Best Aircooled 3dmark|1.07TB Raid5 Linux Server

  3. #3
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    Cathar,

    Welcome to Xtreme

    Glad you found your way here, I am SLO_N8 @ O/C.

    This block rocks, guys...I'm seriously thinking of getting one myself
    E8600. EP45-UD3P. 500FSB 24/7. Still WinXP. Heatware

  4. #4
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    Cather, Love the block, I suspect you'll be having a lot of these made, no? I really hope I can get one!


  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Crazymofo
    Cather, Love the block, I suspect you'll be having a lot of these made, no? I really hope I can get one!
    I had a batch of 50 made and can supply one to anyone world-wide. Just email or PM me. Presently it's a non-profit thing and the price reflects all my initial overhead and investments in getting the block designed and made, divided by the 50 blocks I had made in the batch. The response so far has been very good though, so much so that I'm in the process of forming a small company to make these things plus GPU and peltier blocks.

  6. #6
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    please let me know when you are going with a peltier block.... I'd love to try one for my p4.

    Torinalth
    Drive it like you stole it.

  7. #7
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    I've still yet to read anything bad about Cathar's block. All praises so far
    E8600. EP45-UD3P. 500FSB 24/7. Still WinXP. Heatware

  8. #8
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    Any hopes these will scale (and be produced ) for GPU and/or NB cooling?

    Really like the reviews and looks of that block!
    The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by sjohnson
    Any hopes these will scale (and be produced ) for GPU and/or NB cooling?

    Really like the reviews and looks of that block!
    GPU block is on the way. ETA - 2nd week of December.

  10. #10
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    Nice work Cather, heard alot about your design and how they're being "copied", really looking forward to own one of your master piece......Cheers !!!

  11. #11
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    Hua Luo Han,

    Welcome to Xtreme

    Cathar,

    Anxious to see some pics of that GPU block
    E8600. EP45-UD3P. 500FSB 24/7. Still WinXP. Heatware

  12. #12
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    Ahhh this block is AWESOME!!

    3.5°C better than my old C5, and holds my XP1700 Prime stable at 2028 MHz.



    With the C5, it would fail at 2028 after about 2 min. A higher OC and 3.5°C cooler? I'm allergic to bananas, but what the hell! :p

    Great stuff Cathar!
    P4 2.8C @ 3.9 GHz (MachII cooled), EPoX 4PCA3+, 2 X 256 MB Kingston PC3200, 9700 Pro, 2 X 60 GB Maxtor (RAID-0)

  13. #13
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    the inside of the bottom part - is it rough or is that just the angle of the metal to the flash making it look that light?
    smallmonkeydick@hotmail.com

    bananas?
    <a href="http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=2265" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.heatware.com/Images/logo.jpg" alt="banana peels"></a>

  14. #14
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    I'm not sure if it's what you mean, but there are small thin walls on the baseplate. This is looking down the middle barb of my block:



    P4 2.8C @ 3.9 GHz (MachII cooled), EPoX 4PCA3+, 2 X 256 MB Kingston PC3200, 9700 Pro, 2 X 60 GB Maxtor (RAID-0)

  15. #15
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    from the little bit I could see it doesn't look roughed up. Roughed up meaning 60grit sandpaper to rough up the surface.

    I would really like to see a test block of the same design but with the bottom part "roughed" up. Maybe not as rough at 60 grit . . .
    but where ever you can especially in the micro channels.

    I'm mainly interested in whether you lose performance or if there is no gain.
    Last edited by seversphere; 11-23-2002 at 02:16 AM.
    smallmonkeydick@hotmail.com

    bananas?
    <a href="http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=2265" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.heatware.com/Images/logo.jpg" alt="banana peels"></a>

  16. #16
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    The internals of the blocks and channels are bead blasted. It looks like 80-grit sandpaper.

  17. #17
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    so it does help to create lots of vortex/turbulence thus improve heat transfer . . .

    smallmonkeydick@hotmail.com

    bananas?
    <a href="http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=2265" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.heatware.com/Images/logo.jpg" alt="banana peels"></a>

  18. #18
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    Cathar, Hua Luo Han, MCWB,

    Welcome to Xtreme!

    Cather, love your design.

  19. #19
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    Waiting with interest....

    I ordered a block from Cathgar on Friday. I'm looking forward to comparing it against my geminicool.com hi-flo spiral. Will post results here if ya'll would like (yup, I am a Texan.)

    Zippyc
    Latest: Asus K8n4-e Delux, Mobile 3400 with 1 Mg cache, 754 PCI-E goodness, 7800GT. Four other AMD rigs and a Dell notebook.

  20. #20
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    Re: Waiting with interest....

    Originally posted by zippyc
    I ordered a block from Cathgar on Friday. I'm looking forward to comparing it against my geminicool.com hi-flo spiral. Will post results here if ya'll would like (yup, I am a Texan.)

    Zippyc
    Shipping out this morning....

  21. #21
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    Thumbs up

    This is what you can expect to recieve from Cathar when ordering his block.







    This thing is a work of art I should have it up and running later today when my new mobo arrives and I will then post results between my current D-Tek Spir@l and this White Water.

  22. #22
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    SuperFreak,

    Welcome to Xtreme

    Great first post

    I have that same D-Tek Spir@l & I'm very anxious to see your results
    E8600. EP45-UD3P. 500FSB 24/7. Still WinXP. Heatware

  23. #23
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    N8, you have to get one of these things it owns my spir@al

    I have it up and running now and I must say it is everything he says it is. The following results are from a xp1600+ @ 1900, 1.85v
    The temps are taken from an inline temp probe for the water and and external probe placed on the cpu as close to the core as possible.
    Idle temps obtained by surfing the web and load temps obtained by running BurnK7 for 45 minutes.

    Idle temps

    D-Tek Spir@l:
    water temp - 25c
    cpu - 35c


    White Water:
    water temp - 26c
    cpu - 31c

    Load temps

    D-Tek Spir@l
    water temp - 28c
    cpu - 41c


    White Water:
    water temp - 29c
    cpu - 35c

  24. #24
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    Awesome results SuperFreak... I can't wait for the TEC version of this bad boy. Excellent work on the block Cathar.
    AXP1700+ JIUHB 0302 @ 2400MHz - TEC-Watercooled in The Skyscraper
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  25. #25
    THE ORIGINAL OC JEDI
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    Does it mount directly into the 4 holes in the P4 motherboard?
    (the holes for the oem retention clips)
    Then how does it mount to AMD? Very cool! Have any more left? A website?
    C

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