RunTek Pride -100.6C

[runmc]

My cascade is finally up and running. It has taken me forever, but the time spent was well worth it.
I received a bottle of Chilly1s special blend yestarday. After charging I fired it up. Pressure gauges were going one way and temp probes were going another. What a nightmare, I was so lost. At this point there was only one thing to do. I pulled out my trusty T.E.C.H. Method Troubleshooting book by Gary Lloyd. It is an awesome book. I was damn glad I had it. I've already spent hundreds of dollars on phone calls to Chilly1 the past couple of months, so I decided not to bother him for a change. It is a true troubleshooters book. Thanks Gary, your book came in very handy. Everyone who plans on building any type of Vapor compression system would be wise to purchase one of Gary's books along with the basic refrigeration c-d.

My cascade has a couple of bugs, but I suppose that is normal. I am so happy with it I could spit.

I know I can make it into the -100C club with no problem. I hope. I did see -99c but wasn't quick enough on the camera.

Much thanks to "CHILLY1" for everything on this project. It is his design with slight modifications by Runtek.

The evaporator was made by Chilly1 and Fugger. Thanks guys.

Thanks go to pc-ice for donating extra parts he had.

And as always Mark Willet (Herefishy) was there to help when I needed it. He has stuck by Team Puss from day one. Austin Industrial Refrigeration Rulzes. I am an honorary employee of Marks company. Thanks to Mark I am able to buy parts here in Texas. Texas has strict laws about enviormental protection

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...threadid=30772 "Work in Progress"

[Weapon]

looks great -- very nice work!


how about some more pics of that baby???

[kommando]

Looks good, might have to get me that book and cd

[Charles Wirth]

Nice work, your design is close to mine.

I hope the block serves you well (brass one in my avatar)

Between runs when mine is idle, I put my evap up in the air and I take the pev apart so no moisture sets inside.

I start up the first stage and let it run for a few minutes and then turn on the second stage. I set the pev for about 25 psi and wait for it to drop to around -50 then I will pull it down to 12 psi or so. I usually go by compressor temp and how much cooling is getting back as my guide to how far to go.

If you get moisture in the valve it will cause the valve to stick in spots.

find a safe spot to put the cap, spring and piece that sits between spring and diaphragm between usage, when you thaw out and doing nothing.

Its safe to adjust the valve at any time, just watch for ice dropping off onto the mobo.

You can put a lot of pressure on that block without fear of hurting it, the top is strong.

Dial in your first stage for capacity, get lots of cooling back to the compressor, it should be too much with the second stage turned off. The compressor should ice up with second stage off. dont do it, just giving you idea of your target.

Hope that helps some, just tips from my experiances so far.

Also, get the room a little colder and you will have -100c easy or just pull into a vacuum a little more.

[herefishy]

Hi Runmc... *very* nice. I was wondering why you weren't hitting me up on my R-13/R-23.. LOL.

I'm seeing -87 to -90C on my machine... It may be better, but the last time I fooled with it, it was hooked up to Donebalp's computer, and I was charging it under load. Under some serious voltage increases... according to Donebalp... We were maintaing about -75C (-100F), with my 1/4 hp compressors. Of course, I monitor evap temperature at the outlet of the evaporator....

hmmmmm... I'm kinda curious about the *special blend*. I recall you telling me you had mixed propane with the R-13... I couldn't understand why one would do that, myself....

What interstage temp are you maintaining?

[herefishy]

Hi pc ice. I understand that R-134A is mixed with R-23 to help oil miscibility, but other than that... could you explain why you add R-290, or anything else to the refrigerant charge?

R-13 has a saturation temperature of about -90F to -100F (without a P/T chart in my hand) at atmospheric pressure, whereas say R-404A has a saturation temp of about -50F.

How would one determine the actual characteristics of a proposed blend of refrigerants?

[Gary Lloyd]

Good job, runmc.

-100C is asking a lot for R13. This is generally used for -80C or so. Ethylene is the next step. And then there is R14.

[herefishy]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
-100C is asking a lot for R13. This is generally used for -80C or so. Ethylene is the next step. And then there is R14.

Yeah... Loaded up and hot, I'm running -75C (with R-13/R-23). but unloaded (as I'm sure that Runmc is even demonstrating, here), I will observe the near -90C temperatures.

Cheers!

... and another toast to runmc

NOW, Runmc... let's see some benchies.....

[chilly1]

Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Good job, runmc.

-100C is asking a lot for R13. This is generally used for -80C or so. Ethylene is the next step. And then there is R14.

Actually the gas he is running is a blend of R1150/R508/R290.
And it will do unloaded -118C When tuned properly.

[chilly1]

Originally posted by herefishy
Hi pc ice. I understand that R-134A is mixed with R-23 to help oil miscibility, but other than that... could you explain why you add R-290, or anything else to the refrigerant charge?

R-13 has a saturation temperature of about -90F to -100F (without a P/T chart in my hand) at atmospheric pressure, whereas say R-404A has a saturation temp of about -50F.

How would one determine the actual characteristics of a proposed blend of refrigerants?

R290 in conjuction with Hi pressure refrigerants the low pressure refrigerant(290) can be dismissed (Usually) when it comes to its performance in the evaporator it never changes state till it gets to the accumulator, It will serve two purposes one) to mix with and facillitate the return of the oil and two) to help cool the compressor. I add very little R290 to these systems usually about 2 to 4% of the system charge. When you add R290 to a system running R507/404/134 ect it is also to assist in the return of the oil as the oil with the addition of r290 has better characteristics at low temperatures and I get less oil logging at -40 to -50.

Chilly, didn't I send you a spell checker for your Birthday?

Edited by Kazoo

[chilly1]

Originally posted by herefishy
Yeah... Loaded up and hot, I'm running -75C (with R-13/R-23). but unloaded (as I'm sure that Runmc is even demonstrating, here), I will observe the near -90C temperatures.

Cheers!

... and another toast to runmc

NOW, Runmc... let's see some benchies.....

With the PEV once the system is fully charge the differance between Loaded and unloaded will be less than 5 degrees because it can be adjusted on the fly.

[bmg]

Wow! That is one impressive piece of work. Congratulations!

[Tom Holck]

nice setup Runmc

welcome in the cascade-club

[runmc]

Originally posted by Tom Holck
nice setup Runmc

welcome in the cascade-club

Thank you Tom It's great to be working with you.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but I always thought your car was a Toyota, Corolla.

Now I know why your having your picture taken with it.. It is awesome!!! Cool Car..

[T07N]

Looks complex... Where did you get that thermometer? I need to get one of those.

[runmc]

Originally posted by bluestar88
Looks complex... Where did you get that thermometer? I need to get one of those.

The small white ones, I got a Radio Shack but they only go down to -55F. The yellow one is a Fluke 52 II. I got it off of E-Bay but you can buy them at many online stores. Just do a search on Fluke

[hatemi]

Fluke is very good but costs an arm or a leg

[runmc]

Originally posted by hatemi
Fluke is very good but costs an arm or a leg

I found mine on E-Bay for $125. It was in the original package with the plastic shield on the display.

The radio shacks are great unless you going below -55. The only problem with the Radio Shack probe is that it's fat and round.

[herefishy]

Originally posted by chilly1
Actually the gas he is running is a blend of R1150/R508/R290.
And it will do unloaded -118C When tuned properly.

Dammit! Now I need to go to the store again.

Excellent! The R-1150 tells it all. I assume you're having to maintain a -50F to -40F interstage evaporating temperature, huh?

Thanks, chilly.

Runmc.... you lucky dawg...

[Tom Holck]

Originally posted by herefishy





Dammit! Now I need to go to the store again.

Excellent! The R-1150 tells it all. I assume you're having to maintain a -50F to -40F interstage evaporating temperature, huh?

Thanks, chilly.

Runmc.... you lucky dawg...

I do -118C on load, pure R1150
The interstage have to bee below -50 C to be able to take some load. If it's higher, the temp drop from -118 C to -91 C in 3 minutes


And the load that makes this happend? 170 W

Why use a blend, why not pure R1150?

[LardArse]

With P4EE @ 4.68 1.88v, looping 3DM Lobby (dunno how many watts), I can keep evap exit temp at -94C, 5-6 PSI on low side with R1150. Interstage is cooled by R22 and under the load will rise from -40C to around -37C putting low stage high side at around 250 PSI. I have put in a little amount of R290 as suggested by Chilly and it doesn't really affect my temperature much, but putting some more kills temps quite quickly.
Tom, so your Interstage is kept @ -50+C even with 170w load on low stage?

[runmc]

I am using 507 in my first stage and my interstage temp was only at -30F when I reach -99C.
I made the mistake of buying the wrong temp controller (on - off) for the low stage . This controller turns the low stage off when the interstage reaches -30.

Anyone have any suggestions for another controller or a work around?

[chilly1]

Originally posted by Tom Holck
I do -118C on load, pure R1150
The interstage have to bee below -50 C to be able to take some load. If it's higher, the temp drop from -118 C to -91 C in 3 minutes


And the load that makes this happend? 170 W

Why use a blend, why not pure R1150?

The r290 is for oil return oil, The 508 was added to reduce head neither will affect the temperature much a few degrees and the amp draw will drop by 30 to 40 %

[chilly1]

Originally posted by runmc
I am using 507 in my first stage and my interstage temp was only at -30F when I reach -99C.
I made the mistake of buying the wrong temp controller (on - off) for the low stage . This controller turns the low stage off when the interstage reaches -30.

Anyone have any suggestions for another controller or a work around?

Put a timer in its place or a switch and when it reaches -50 switch it on..

[chilly1]

use a little R290 2 or 3 % for thinning the oil and providing additional cooling to the compressor.