refrigerants just curious what makes one better than another

[iboomalot]

R503: blend
CFC-503, a blend refrigerant of HFC-23 and CFC-13, used in Iow tempreture frosting unit.
Typical Properties:
Formula: CHF3/CCIF3
Boiling Point (101.3KPa, ~C): -87.8
Freezing Point (~C): --
Critical Temperature (~C): 19.4
Critical Pressure (KPa): 4357.5
Liquid Density (kg/m3): 1233
CDP Value: 0.6
GWP Value: 13.85


R-500: blend
R-500 is a blend refrigerant of CFC12 and HFC 152a. It has higher pressure than CFC12, therefore under the same compressor's capacity, it's more efficient.
Typical Properties:
Formula: CCl2F2/CH3CHF2
Boiling Point (101.3KPa, ~C): 99.3
Freezing Point (~C): -159.8
Critical Temperature (~C): 105.6
Critical Pressure (KPa): 4426.5
Liquid Density (kg/m3): 1138.9
ODP: 0.7
GWP: 2.1-2.5


R-404A: blend
R-404A is a blend refrigerant of HFC125, HFC-134a and HFC-143. AlliedSigal Inc.'s patent number is AZ-50. It is a long life substitute of R502, harmless to Ozone. It is mainly used in Iow and middle central commercial air re-frigeration system.
Typical Properties:
Formula: OH F2CF3/CF3OH2F/OH3CF3
Boiling Point (101.3KPa, ~C): -46.1
Freezing Point (~C): --
Critical Temperature (~C): 72.4
Critical Pressure (KPa): 3688.7
Liquid Density (kg/m3): 1017.2
ODP: 0
GWP: 0.35


Info found at this link http://www.favorcool.com/refirgerant.htm

What makes one better or worse than the other?? Price, avail, danger levels, usability, boiling points??

thanks for your input

[iboomalot]

cool deal

thanks

[berkut]

1kg of R23 costs 30$

[KAIN]

hmm freons

[iboomalot]

i thought the word Freon was a no no

[KAIN]

yeah it is, think MM just got a little bit crazy there with his F R E O N key's

He has seen the light now though...

[iboomalot]

BLAHHHH

[DaBit]

'freon' is a DuPont trade name (not sure if it is for the entire CFC/HFC/HCFC range or only for R12). Just like 'walkman' is Sony's. That's why one should not use the term freon, unless you mean the specific DuPont refrigerant.

Now, what makes one better then the other? That depends entirely on the conditions. Some refrigerants work better in a high temp application, some work better in a low temp application. Some work fine with high condensing temperatures, some do not. Some are cheap, some are expensive. Some are banned, some are not. And many more factors determine the choice of the refrigerant.

Usually one would determine the entire operating range of the device, and then select a refrigerant which provides the best fit. Refrigerators work with R134a, while an airconditioning unit works with R22, R407C or R410A for about the same evaporating temperature. Clearly those refrigerants have advantages in such a higher-capacity system over R134a (lower required compressor displacement -> cheaper compressor).

Chip-con (oh sorry, nVENTIV) chose R134a for cheapness (of the refrigerant, the compressor and probably the testing too), I suppose. R404a and an R404a compressor would have been a better choice, but more expensive. It's a valid choice for the refrigerant to use, but not technically the best.

[iboomalot]

interesting

[Gary Lloyd]

Dupont called R12, R22, and R502 "Freon". They call their newer refrigerants "Suva". Other manufacturers have other brand names for these same products. The terms are sufficiently vague to be meaningless. The "R" designations are official, specific, and meaningful.

Beyond this, it is widely understood throughout the refrigeration industry that if someone says, "It needs a little freon", that person is essentially clueless.

[iboomalot]

the R500 has a very low boiling point

pros and cons ??

[DaBit]

Oh? According to my pt calculator R500 has a boiling point of -33.5C at atmospheric pressure. At 32C SCT it's saturated pressure is a moderate 9.27 bara.

Thus, the cons: it's unavailable, it's physical properties are not that special, and neither are it's thermodynamic properties.

The pros: if you happen to have a bottle in the garage, it's free.

[iboomalot]

Boiling Point (101.3KPa, ~C): 99.3
Freezing Point (~C): -159.8


why would it be listed as such ?? -33.5 seems alot higher than -99.3

[DaBit]

Sounds like an error to me. Based on the partial pressures of the R500 components I am pretty sure that -99.3C is not the correct value

[iboomalot]

so in your opinions what would be the best all around refrig to use ??? in a 1/3 hp R-12 tecumseh compressor?

[CrashOv3r1De]

can a vapo pe be modded w/ r507 or would it cause too many problems?

[Tedinde]

r404 is $220 and r507 $280 "20-30lb cans

Would r12 work in my Vapo PE, I've got 3 1 LB cans here. I've been holding onto them if my AC in my mustang ever needs a charge.

looking at the chart, It wouldnt get much colder.

[water_cooler 20]

it wouldn't be worth it since Vapo has ester oil in it so u would have to drain it then fill it w/ mineral oil to use R12 u would only get like 5C colder

[DaBit]

Originally posted by iboomalot
so in your opinions what would be the best all around refrig to use ??? in a 1/3 hp R-12 tecumseh compressor?

So far R507 performs the best. But that requires an oil change.

[water_cooler 20]

does R507 run at a higher head psi then R12

[DaBit]

Yes, it does. Head pressures are double the R12 head pressures