First single stage, a few questions.

**matttheniceguy** · 05-09-2005, 06:13 PM

Hi everyone!! I just signed up for an account here but I have been reading parts of these forums for quite some time. I have been a member of overclockers.com for a while, but never signed up here because I didn't see myself quite "extreme" enough for you nuts. I think I am finally ready to admit it though; My name is matt and I'm an overclocking addict.

anyway, I've been wanting to build a single stage R290 unit for my XP-M, and I finally have the time!!! Here is what I was planning to use:

-Compressor from a 5200 btu Air conditioner, probably this one here
-Condensor from that same AC unit.
-9 feet of .028" cap tube as recomended here
-Home made evap (breaking out the $30 canadian tire drill press

)

I have a few questions:

Can I use a solid suction line? I am making the unit specifially for my computer, so as long as I make the line such that the evap mounts ok it should be fine right?

And here's a dumb question you don't see much, how do you connect a propane cylinder to a service manifold? I'm assuming you need some sort of addapter for the hose or something? I don't really care if I use a big BBQ cylinder or one of the smaller camping bottles.

Thanks.

**Cr@sh_D1n3r** · 05-09-2005, 06:45 PM

Welcome to the forums!

Compressor and condensor will be perfect for your system

You can use a solid line as long as the vibrations are all gone since vibrations could kill the cpu. The way to do this is by doing a coil with the suction line before returning back to the compressor. You'll need many turns to completely dissipate the vibration but this is really possible.

For the propane connection, you know the the connector of the BBQ hose? Unscrew one from a hose, remove the plastic thread (press fitted) then braze a schrader valve on it. Replace the plastic then connect refrigeration hoses and gauge and you're good to go

**kayl** · 05-09-2005, 08:22 PM

welcome matty, ya differently xtreme enough to be a member here, I remember ya from overclockers forum, that’s where I first joined (overclockers forum.)
Good to see ya got the time to finish ya phase change unit, I have seen a few pics of your stuff from the past, will work well those evaps ya make.

For capillary line start about 92” of 0.028 ,88” of 0.028”was sweet for r290 for me and my evaps.

You can cut the end off a bbq r290 bottle and put a schraider valve in there and a few hose claps, (getto style)
Or do it properly, heres a great guide by epsilon.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...hlight=epsilon

also with the solid suction line it may take a lot of time to get it to the correct position to mount to the cpu. Maybe remove the mobo from the tower and go the open cas mobo laying flat.
I think ppl have cracked cpu cores using solid suction lines
I used about 30cm of flex line and the rest copper pipe in my latest single stage to give you a little play (enough) to mount the evap to the mobo with out putting too much strain on the mobo
good luck.

**runmc** · 05-10-2005, 01:19 AM

Welcome to the forum Matt.

It sounds like you've done your homework. To make my adaptor , I used a soldering torch and cut the end off of it and brazed a shrader onto it.

I think a solid line to the cpu can be done, but I don't recommend it. If possible, go the flex line route. I have a couple extra flex lines if you need one, PM me.

**matttheniceguy** · 05-10-2005, 01:24 AM

Thanks for the link kayl, just what I was looking for. It said somewhere in there that the camping propane tanks arn't very pure and have a lot of butane in them, so I guess I'll be going full BBQ style. 92" of .028" sounds a bit short no? I don't really have any idea myself, but according to that link I had it would be. According to my highly inaccurate program, if I get my cpu to say 3100mhz at 1.95v I'll be right around 150 watts. Of course I would assume the cap tube also depends on the compressor so maby you are assuming a higher power compressor than the link does. What size compressor was on your R290 unit?

Thanks for the offer runmc, you may just save me hours of torment and suffering.

Here are some pics of the evap I'll probably go with. I just made a solid model of it so I can print a template and glue it to the copper. It's a lot easier drilling all the holes when you have a target, and you know things will work out nicely. I'm making the evap from a 1" copper bar. I'm thinking that the holes right over the core should leave about a 3mm base, and the ones further away will leave 5 or 6mm.

In the picture, the smaller grey rectangle is an outline of my barton core, and the grey dots are where the mounting holes are. The bigger grey rectangle is an outline of the actual cpu.

**Rondrian** · 05-10-2005, 01:58 AM

update this thread at every step you do... I am very interested in building my own

if I can't build one by my own, I will buy one from chilly1 or PCice

but first I look up some information

go ahead!

**smurfmods** · 05-10-2005, 02:52 AM

How are you planning to get the propane out of a BBQ style tank? I haven't seen a BBQ adapter yet.

I used the propane bottle adapter and it worked fine for the little camping tanks. Where did you hear that it wasn't pure? I thought it was pretty good propane. I actually thought the BBQ stuff wasn't as good...

**Marvin** · 05-10-2005, 03:50 AM

Hi Matt we are glad to you be here...

the evaporator has a nice design, but remember to use apropriate bits.
Maybe you loose some cooper the first try. I tried, and its hard and somtimes boring....
welcome aboard

**Cr@sh_D1n3r** · 05-10-2005, 07:45 AM

This is the way I did my adapter. It's a bit archaic, but it's working #1!

**smurfmods** · 05-10-2005, 08:17 AM

It's a little ugly

But it will get the gas out!!

What about the quality of the R290 gas? BBQ better than camping gas. Any proof to back that up? Anybody know?

**matttheniceguy** · 05-10-2005, 09:29 AM

What about the quality of the R290 gas? BBQ better than camping gas. Any proof to back that up? Anybody know?

I got that from the 10th post here

I don't know where he got the information, but it makes sence. The propane that we use to fill the big tanks is the same stuff that people run their propane converted trucks on. They would have to keep this fairly pure or there would be huge emition and fouling problems.

Maybe you loose some cooper the first try. I tried, and its hard and somtimes boring....

I have never made an evaporator before, but I did make a waterblock for two pelts using a drill press. Talk about boring, this thing had a little over 600 holes. I also didn't make the space between the holes quite as big as I should have so the bit kept wandering over to the previous hole. Here is a poor webcam shot of the thing before I solderd it up.

**gclg2000** · 05-10-2005, 09:39 AM

holy god, that must have taken forever.

**matttheniceguy** · 05-10-2005, 10:47 AM

Yea, I think the total time was around 12 hours.

**Cr@sh_D1n3r** · 05-10-2005, 01:11 PM

HOLY ****! I hope you used a drill press hahahaha!

**matttheniceguy** · 05-10-2005, 04:48 PM

Well I got most of the evaporator drilled out before the chuck on my drill press broke. It was a piece of junk anyway, so a new chuck will be nice.

I tried playing around with some brazing, but the results wern't too good. I think my main problem was the rod. I was trying to braze two brass parts together but I think the rod was pretty much entirely brass as well. The parts were melting before the rod was, and I never got the material to flow. What kind of rod do you use on brass?

Here are a couple pics of my attempted brazing. I had no problem sticking the pieces of copper together, but the brass parst definatly didn't work.

**Cr@sh_D1n3r** · 05-10-2005, 05:51 PM

I can see that you probably killed the valve :P In the valve there's a rubber seal . It probably melted but anyway... I think you didn't had the valve propertly heated up and that's why you wasted a LOT of brazing rods. When you braze, always wait until the piece is bright red hot and heat the rod a bit before applying it on the piece to braze so you don't "cool" down before you braze it. I used 5% rods to do the job and it worked just fine.

**wdrzal** · 05-10-2005, 05:56 PM

you need silver solder rod, at least 45% silver content for brazing brass.

**matttheniceguy** · 05-10-2005, 07:51 PM

I removed the valve before I brazed it. My problem wasn't that the parts were too cold, I had to heat them up so much they melted. The filler material I was trying to use just had to high of melting point.

Thanks for the info wdrzal, I suspected I needed a rod with a decent amount of silver. The people at the autoparts store where I got the rod looked at me funnie when I said I thought the rod needed some silver in it, but I guess they just didn't know what they were talking about.

**wdrzal** · 05-10-2005, 08:06 PM

If you have 20# cylinders you can buy a fitting for it for 5 to 10 dollars it will usually have 1/4" brass pipe nipple comming out .You can get a schrader to adapt to that thread or you can silver solder one on. high silver rods are expensive,so just thread it togeather,thats what I would do. for those small fuel tanks I think you are stuck modifying what you tried because of the type of valve and the thread.

**matttheniceguy** · 05-10-2005, 09:50 PM

I'd rather use a full size tank for the system anyway. I was trying to make that one more as a first attempt at brazing. It was just made of an old propane torch and crappy pressure valve.

**smurfmods** · 05-11-2005, 03:03 AM

matttheniceguy:

Thanks for the info on the BBQ propane. Those little bottles are expensive anyways. Looks like I'll be making an adapter myself this weekend.

Too bad about the brass soldering. Did something similar with some shreader valves. Had the wrong solder and wrong torch. Took forever to solder it... and then I found out it was useless because I had melted the valve. Ruined my night but I learned some valuable lessons. I wuz cursing the guy at home depot that said "This is exactly what you need!"

**matttheniceguy** · 05-11-2005, 09:44 AM

I wuz cursing the guy at home depot that said "This is exactly what you need!"

I know what you mean. An old clerk at homehardware sold me some silicone to connect some different tubes in my watercooling loop. He was in his late 60's and sounded like he relly knew his stuff, so I believed him when he said the silicone would stick to the tubes I had (which he just gave me from the plumbing section). A week later I heard my pump start to suck air, and when I looked in it had droped about a liter of water into my case. No damage, but it was close. The silicone literaly fell off the tubes, it didn't stick to them at all.

**kayl** · 05-11-2005, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by wdrzal

If you have 20# cylinders you can buy a fitting for it for 5 to 10 dollars it will usually have 1/4" brass pipe nipple comming out .You can get a schrader to adapt to that thread or you can silver solder one on. high silver rods are expensive,so just thread it togeather,thats what I would do. for those small fuel tanks I think you are stuck modifying what you tried because of the type of valve and the thread.

This is the fitting that I use for my bbq r290.
I got them from the local camping store and I also available local hard hare store as well for 9kg bbq r290 I pay $23AUS for 9kg of hc22/502 (r290/ethane blend, refrigerant grade) is around $500AUS
So far I havnt seen that much of a different between the two in performance.

when i did the bromeze torch schraider valve mod mine leaked through o-ring.
can beat a tank. you can also get 1kg, 2kg and 4.5kg bbq gas bottles

**matttheniceguy** · 05-11-2005, 07:19 PM

Well I got my drill press back up and running, or more accuratly an entirely new drill press. I got the thing from Canadian Tire a little over a year ago, and they just exchanged the whole drill press for me even though I was a couple weeks past the 1 year warrenty. Thank you Canadian Tire

I came across some hoses that converted full size BBQ tanks to the camping tank connection, so when it comes time for that I may just go that route.

I finnished drilling out the channels of the evaporator and then cut the outside.

I also went down to the recycling depot in my town and raided their bin of old compressors. Each one was more haggard than the last, so I grabed the two that looked the most likely to actualy run. They had quite a few of these scary looking ones that were a bit bigger than a basketball, but I figured I would stay away from those monsters for now. I'm just planning on making a vacume pump out of one of these. I'll clean them up a bit and see if they actually run tonight.