c300 r0 ich10r scaling

[mbreslin]

I don't know how useful this is but I wanted to see 2-5 disks on ich without any kind of oc, bios on optimized defaults. I will reserve a second post for 4.4ghz.

All tests are 64kb stripe wbc on. (c300s are on fw 1)

2r0:


3r0:


4r0:


5r0:


I ran all these back to back there were a few times where writes really took a dive, I was surprised (and happy) that after just a minute or two to let gc run they snapped right back. These seem to be on par with anvil's numbers considering his oc. Now I kind of don't know what to do, even just 2 drives in r0 on ich scream and get me nearly the same pcmv hdd test score I get with 8 on the 9260. I don't live for pcmv or anything but it's telling and shows either how good ich is or that maybe the 9260 isn't all it's cracked up to be.

(also they can go bannana themselves charging for software that only gets their hardware up to what they claimed it could do when it launched ages ago).

So what do I do? Sell 4 or 5 of my c300s and my 9260+9211? Keep it all for a rainy day? What would I even do with the money? sr2 and two westmeres? ud9 and get 2 of those crazy new asus 2 real 5870's stuck together cards and throw it all in a mm ufo? I'm both glad my build is done and I can simply use my pc without messing with it and bored and want to build something new.

Thanks for your patience with my mindless ranting.

[mbreslin]

cpu@4.4ghz.
2r0:


3r0:


4r0:


5r0:


Oc definetely helps, unfortunately I can't run at more than 104ish pcie. My 9260 will vanish and my graphics cards start to bannana up as well. As other people's 9260 functions fine at high pcie mhz I think it must be because I have every slot full. I have a nic, a sound card, a 5970, a 5870, and the 9260, all of it starts wigging out at 105mhz. Bump in voltage doesn't help (I've only went 2 notches scared to go anymore don't want to kill any cards).

[Anvil]

You should try a lower stripe size, 16 or 32KB should give better pcmv scores.

I've been wrestling with the 9211 tonight and although it's getting there ICH is just marvellous all things considered.

I suggest you keep the drives and controllers a while, things might change.

[mbreslin]

Yeah my pcmv good runs are at 16k stripe I wasn't trying to get good scores just seeing performance vs number of drives. Two drives on ich with no overclock and 64k stripe got me not _that_ much less of a score than 8 drives on 9260 16k stripe, pretty funny.

[GullLars]

You COULD try to just disconnect all PCIe cards, and test how far PCIe will go with only 5870, and then 5970. It could help, for curiosity stake.
I would also advice you to try comparing a FSB only OC to a multiplier only OC and the effect on PCMV HDD and AS SSD. Maybe also northbridge or QPI frequency could make some difference? Uncore frequency?

From what i can see from your numbers, 3R0 C300 from ICH10R seems to be the tipping point where adding more drives has a negative impact on certain parts. The increase in score past that seems to be from high QD IOPS, with 3R0 already reaching over 100K IOPS with ~125µs accesstime. It's possible you could gain some from 4R0 if you get PCIe to 115-120mhz while at >4Ghz CPU.

I agree with people above, the ICH10R is impressive, especially considering how old it is (design and architecture wise). The only "bad" part is the 6 SATA 3Gbps ports only sharing around 600-700MB/s bandwidth, wich is less than half of what the aggregate should be if all ran at rated specs simoultaneously.
If intel made their next southbridge with SATA 6Gbps and 2GB/s+ aggregate bandwidth, they would remove the need for many cases where RAID(/HBA) cards are used for RAID-0.

[Anvil]

cpu@4.4ghz.
Oc definetely helps, unfortunately I can't run at more than 104ish pcie. My 9260 will vanish and my graphics cards start to bannana up as well. As other people's 9260 functions fine at high pcie mhz I think it must be because I have every slot full. I have a nic, a sound card, a 5970, a 5870, and the 9260, all of it starts wigging out at 105mhz. Bump in voltage doesn't help (I've only went 2 notches scared to go anymore don't want to kill any cards).

There is a setting in the MB bios that might help a bit on getting the PCIE a little higher, the RAID card might still be the limiting factor.

Enter the UD7 bios -> MIT -> Advanced Clock Control -> PCI Express Clock Drive -> 900mV.
(default on my board was 700mV)
Thanks to Steve I am able to run pcie using this setting @ > 115.

Obviously you could remove the 9260 and give it a try.

I'd go for either 2 or 4 drives, it just makes more sense. (more like 4 drives imo )

Anyway, just like me you've demonstrated that ICH is a great controller.
For most people, it's the way to go.

Just remember to load the Intel raid drivers while installing W7, it makes a difference to performance. IATA87CD or RST 9.6 are the best performing Intel drivers.
IATA87 is more stable but 9.6 should bring TRIM somewhere along the line.

[SteveRo]

Mr. mbreslin - beautifull scores!
Yes, what Mr Anvil says is absolutely correct - pci clock drive @ 900mv.
If you still can't do pcie 119 consider dropping back to just the 5870.
OC'd 5870 alone gives the best pcmv score - if you hadn't noticed
I was only able to do pcie 105 when i had the 9211 connected, what M. Anvil said - you might want to try with the 9260 removed.

[SteveRo]

Mr. mbreslin - could we also see some pcmv HDD scores?

[Musho]

You should try a lower stripe size, 16 or 32KB should give better pcmv scores.

I've been wrestling with the 9211 tonight and although it's getting there ICH is just marvellous all things considered.

I suggest you keep the drives and controllers a while, things might change.

How well do the 4kb and 8kb stripe sizes compare to 16kb? I'm going to get my I7 rig up and running tomorrow, and was wondering what stripe size I should pick for maximum performance for 24/7 usage. I'm currently leaning towards 16kb currently, as that's what Intel's Rapid Storage Manager recommends for SSDs in raid0.

[Anvil]

Musho,

It depends on what drives you are using and to some degree the number of drives.

I've been through 4K and up, 16-32KB is the best compromise for the most part.
For PCMV I got the best results at stripe size 8KB (IRST 9.6) using Intels, the Vertex LE and C300 perform better at 16-32KB. (ymmv)

It will always be a compromise, some workloads perform better at low stripe size whereas others perform better at a larger stripe size.

[Musho]

Musho,

It depends on what drives you are using and to some degree the number of drives.

I've been through 4K and up, 16-32KB is the best compromise for the most part.
For PCMV I got the best results at stripe size 8KB (IRST 9.6) using Intels, the Vertex LE and C300 perform better at 16-32KB. (ymmv)

It will always be a compromise, some workloads perform better at low stripe size whereas others perform better at a larger stripe size.

I'm running 3x X25M-G2 80gb. It will just be used as a 24/7 setup for my OS. Wondering if I should go with 8KB or even 4KB in that case. As far as I know, most disk access on a OS drive uses quite low access sizes in general. So you are saying you got the best PCMV at 8KB stripe? I think PCMV is quite good at simulating real world loads. Do you happen to have your results of you different stripe sizes PCMV runs stored somewhere? Would love to compare them all Especially the differences between 4, 8 and 16KB. Thanks!

[Ao1]

Anvil, I have been busy at work recently so I have not been able to keep up with all your benchmarks and analysis. ;(

I’m confused about the strip size relevance however. My own testing with Iometer and real world “tests” like unzipping files seemed to imply that a 128k strip was the best all round performer. Your tests seemed to be saying that IO performance is better with small strip sizes but at the expense of throughput. Maybe the better IO performance with smaller strips is something PCMV likes in contrast to throughput, but does that translate to anything noticeable in real life?

Have I understood your strip size benchmarks correctly? TBH outside of benchmarks the difference in strip sizes was not noticeable in real world usage but I’m not xtreme in my storage usage demands.

[seeka12]

just wondering mbreslin are you facing any stability or reliability issues with the C300 SSDs?

[Anvil]

@Musho,
I'll check for my results. (don't hold your breath though, I'm in the middle of doing some other tests, eventually I'll get to them but probably not by tomorrow)

However, you can just install using e.g. 8KB, make an image, test, change stripe size, restore image
I'm thinking 4KB is a bit low, it is noticeably slower in *some* benchmarks, hard to tell the difference in real life though.
Just make sure you load the raid driver while installing, installing later makes a difference to performance.
(I'd recommend RST 9.6 or IMSM 8.7, both are great, just don't forget to keep backups )

@audienceofone
I looks like you have read my results correctly

For standard desktop usage I'm pretty sure most people couldn't tell the difference, for workstation/server usage it's a different story.
As for PCMV, I think you're right, it sure likes small stripe sizes, not one particular size, just small strips.
All my tests have shown that smaller stripes are generally better for SSD's, not just for pcmv.
(I don't spend much time using pcmv, it's one of the last one I try, in my case it's iometer, iometer, cdm, as ssd, ..., pcmv)

Keep in mind that different controllers and SSD's are performing at their best at different stripe sizes and so there is no general rule of thumb.
It just like buying a hi-fi, the components need to be "compatible"

[mbreslin]

I get by far the best pcmv hdd results with 16kb stripe, but I generally do much better on the other benchmark programs like as ssd and cdm with 64kb stripe. As c300s are still unproven and many people on crucial forums reporting writes taking nosedives after awhile I've decided to go with 64kb stripe for 24/7. I mean my array is super fast for my use at any stripe so I don't see any reason to put the extra wear with 16kb stripe (this is probably not justified as opinions vary widely on this and nobody really knows for sure as ssds and especially c300s are so new).

@Steve: Those are hdd test scores with the non oc benchmarks, nothing really good. I can do back to back pcmv hdd tests and easily have 20k point swings without changing a thing.

@seeka12: I've had these drives a couple months now installed/reinstalled windows done a million benchmarks and they score pretty much identical now as they did new, I did hdd erase all 8 drives a couple weeks ago but honestly they seem to perform the same now as they did before. I've never had one not show up or any of the other weird issues I see on the crucial forums. Most issues can only be checked by filling the drives up and as my array is ~2tb and my usage is light I doubt I'll get there anytime soon. Based on my experience I would recommend them. They aren't insanely awesome at low queue depth and they have high-ish write latency, possibly the former may be enough to say price/performance isn't worth it as they are a bit of money each. Everyone has to decide for themselves what expensive means.

@GullLars: Intel is at odds internally from what I've heard, they claim they won't release a 6gb/sec enabled chipset until they start shipping 6gb/sec drives (which they don't want to do yet since they're making a killing off g2).


I am back installed and pc closed, I don't plan to do anything else besides wc loop maintenance.

If I knew everything I know now before I started this build it's possible I would have went 3 c300s on ich and no controllers. Would have been 4500$ or so saved but I'd just have spent it on some other sillyness. In previous computers I'd just got whatever the best cpu was at the time and best video card thrown it all together in a boring case with some random fans. This time I wanted to learn about water cooling and at the end have a computer that was better than just 'high end'. I've done that and I'm very happy.

[Anvil]

mbreslin,

Enjoy your computer, it's certainly one of the fastest available systems you've got there

[GullLars]

mbreslin,

Enjoy your computer, it's certainly one of the fastest available systems you've got there

That is an understatement. his system will own anything (not enterprise-server...) you can buy from HP/Dell/Lenovo/Alienware/etc, no matter at what cost, like a Hayabusa (1300cc R MC) or McLaren F1 owns an original VW Beetle.
In the metaphor, Steve and Mike's systems become Ghostrider's Hayabusa; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpQP4v_Z0nQ (passes a Yamaha R1 doing 280-290km/t (ca 170mhp) going uphill while doing a wheele)

Mbreslins system:
/

vs

The best of Dell/HP/Lenovo/Alienware:


+1 on enjoying your system. It should keep you happy for a couple of years

[SteveRo]

@ Mr mbreslin - how long do you think you can leave your system alone before you give into the urge to start tinkering again?
I gave in years ago - one machine for business as usual and one-two machines always torn up and tweaking.

@ GullLars - nice compare

[jcool]

Heh, you just made my two little Sandforce drives feel insignificant!
Oh well.. for 300€ net I guess you can't complain about their performance

[GullLars]

Thanks for not shrugging off my comment as over-the-top or silly, it was meant as a humourus illustration, like a caricature.

Also, i'd like to direct your attention to this, since some of you may have this thread in favourits but not check the storage sub-forum:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=251806

[Musho]

@Musho,
I'll check for my results. (don't hold your breath though, I'm in the middle of doing some other tests, eventually I'll get to them but probably not by tomorrow)

However, you can just install using e.g. 8KB, make an image, test, change stripe size, restore image
I'm thinking 4KB is a bit low, it is noticeably slower in *some* benchmarks, hard to tell the difference in real life though.
Just make sure you load the raid driver while installing, installing later makes a difference to performance.
(I'd recommend RST 9.6 or IMSM 8.7, both are great, just don't forget to keep backups )

Have you found your results yet? I'm really curious to check them out. Thanks!

[AceNZ]

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