NVIDIA SSAA/Downsampling

[KingOfsorroW]

Yesterday having spent several hours tweaking and testing different IQ modes on my new 480sli setup, I came to the idea that the best possible image quality one would imagine would be the possibility to combine the nvidia' anisotropy filtering and ati's SSAA* (super sampling anti-antialiasing). So I decided to go to the nets and post this idea somwhere to drag some attention to the matter. And here's what I have found:

1.Nvidia SGSSAA is already possible but only in dx10-dx11 titles:
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,7...ames/Practice/

Some discussion on the anandtechforums:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=29734245


2.The Downsampling (same thing as SSAA if you ask me) and ToMMTi SSAA Tool.
There is already a special tool that makes it possible to use the SSAA or Downsampling in any dx10-dx11 game, it also carries a number of imrovements like minimizing the SLI microstuttering for example...

Here is the link to program:
http://www.tommti-systems.de/start.html

Link to the forum thread in which the creator of the tool takes part (originally in german):
http://translate.google.com/translat...02&sl=de&tl=en

Thread on another forum:
http://translate.google.com/translat...&sl=auto&tl=en


This is a great news for anyone who cares about the image quality IMO.

[BoredByLife]

I always thought ATI had the best AF? Since Nvidia is angular dependant. while ATI's is angular independent.

[KingOfsorroW]

I always thought ATI had the best AF? Since Nvidia is angular dependant. while ATI's is angular independent.

Well who has better AF is an arguable question. I personally think nvidia has better AF and ATI has better FSAA quality.
But this is not the point here - the point is that it would be really welcomed if nvidia started to officially support the SSAA. And it looks like the situation is heading that way. Well, it's leaning toward it at least

[Chumbucket843]

I always thought ATI had the best AF? Since Nvidia is angular dependent. while ATI's is angular independent.

its not that simple. they are about the same.

[saaya]

i wonder why nvidia doesnt officially support ssaa
cheers... will give this a try on my 260s

[BoredByLife]

its not that simple. they are about the same.

Not if you look at these pictures:

GTX480:


HD 5870:


You can see the ATI cards have superior AF.

[Blacky]

I would like to see the performance hit you get when you turn SSAA on, specially on 480's in SLI.

[QuadDamage]

Not if you look at these pictures:

GTX480:
"screenies"

You can see the ATI cards have superior AF.

Correction. Although ATi hardware can do angle independant AF ATi chose not to use it in the games. The only thing that can "activate" AIAF on ATi are the AF quality testing proggies. Hell, in Crysis they even disabled trilinear filtering atleast that seemed to be the case with the 10.2/10.3's. Over-zealous optimizatiions, or...

[BoredByLife]

Correction. Although ATi hardware can do angle independant AF ATi chose not to use it in the games. The only thing that can "activate" AIAF on ATi are the AF quality testing proggies. Hell, in Crysis they even disabled trilinear filtering atleast that seemed to be the case with the 10.2/10.3's. Over-zealous optimizatiions, or...

proof?

[Eastcoasthandle]

After looking at the images in the link from the OP all this does is blur the image at a performance penalty. Instead of sharp looking jaggies you have blurry ones. Meh...

[munim]

Not if you look at these pictures:

GTX480:


HD 5870:


You can see the ATI cards have superior AF.

Sweet game bro.

KIDDING KIDDING.

[annihilat0r]

Not if you look at these pictures:

GTX480:


HD 5870:


You can see the ATI cards have superior AF.

When you're playing such games I bet ATI will have superior AF but in real life scenarios, NV and ATI have pretty much the same AF quality.

[BoredByLife]

After looking at the images all this does is blur the image at a performance penalty. Instead of sharp looking jaggies you have blurry ones. Meh...

So you prefer colours that are not nicely flowing in eachother? Like jpeg with 50% quality? And polygon shapes when you want a circle?

Sweet game bro.

KIDDING KIDDING.

When you're playing such games I bet ATI will have superior AF but in real life scenarios, NV and ATI have pretty much the same AF quality.

Ofcourse you will not notice a lot when playing games, i just meant ATI has superiorty in theory. Just by looking at the technology. That you notice it in games, is something completely else.

[Eastcoasthandle]

So you prefer colours that are not nicely flowing in eachother? Like jpeg with 50% quality? And polygon shapes when you want a circle?

Like I said, all this does is blur the jaggies. It by no means improves antialiasing. I am of the opinion that if AA was properly written into the game 4x MSAA is all you really need.

[BoredByLife]

Like I said, all this does is blur the jaggies. It by no means improves antialiasing. I am of the opinion that if AA was properly written into the game 4x MSAA is all you really need.

I was talking about AF, not AA.

[annihilat0r]

Ofcourse you will not notice a lot when playing games, i just meant ATI has superiorty in theory. Just by looking at the technology. That you notice it in games, is something completely else.

When you take screenshots and examine them in detail still ATI and Nvidia are pretty much the same. In some cases Nvidia is even better.

[Eastcoasthandle]

I was talking about AF, not AA.

The post that you replied to had nothing to do with AF. I am talking about AA. Since you replied to me that is the topic of conversation.

[BoredByLife]

The post that you replied to had nothing to do with AF. I am talking about AA. Since you replied to me that is the topic of conversation.

Apologies, i thought you were talking about the images i posted.

When you take screenshots and examine them in detail still ATI and Nvidia are pretty much the same. In some cases Nvidia is even better.

Can you post some, cause every image i have seen with AF if better on ATi, but this is pretty subjective stuff i think.

[Eastcoasthandle]

Apologies, i thought you were talking about the images i posted.

No worries, I edited my post to make it a bit more clear.

[ElSel10]

Not if you look at these pictures:

GTX480:


HD 5870:


You can see the ATI cards have superior AF.

Those tunnel shots don't tell the whole story:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=248755

[Scorpio[pt]]

Those tunnel shots don't tell the whole story:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=248755

not that crap again

[KingOfsorroW]

After looking at the images in the link from the OP all this does is blur the image at a performance penalty. Instead of sharp looking jaggies you have blurry ones. Meh...

You're looking at the wrong images The advantage of the SSAA is that it makes the picture look crystal clear and sharp with no antialiasing whatsoever (including the transparency aa) so there is nothing that can blur the image and so it becomes so clear.
But at teh expense of huge perfomance drop. I'm testing it in crysis rigth now and while in 1920x1200 8qxfsaa+2xtraa it gives me 35fps on average, with ssaa it is probably 5-15fps ..... I'll post more exact figures a bit later.

[fellix_bg]

NV has better overall AF quality ever since G80. In fact, there have been no visible changes of the AF algorithm for the past four years -- GF100 outputs virtually the same texture quality as the old G80. The problem with ATi's case is the severe under-sampling, visible in most high-frequency/detailed textures all over the place, like subtle shimmering and sharp MIP stage transitions. The angular pattern -- being invariant or not -- should not be used as exhaustive quality measurement.

[Chumbucket843]

Not if you look at these pictures:

GTX480:
[IMG]irrelevant pseudocircle[/IMG]

HD 5870:
[IMG]irrelevant circle[/IMG]

You can see the ATI cards have superior AF.

that's a synthetic image quality test. it tells you very little about a filter.

It is pleasant that the overall image of a HD 5000 flickers less than it does on the Radeon HD 4000/3000/2000. The so-called Banding, transitions between textures, is less obvious. After extensive tests and direct comparisons we conclude that the HD 5000 AF is equal to the Nvidia driver default ("Quality” including "Trilinear Optimization”) - except some games like Crysis. With HQ-AF without "economy measures” a modern Geforce still filters more homogenous than a Radeon HD 5000.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,6...eviews/?page=5

[Eastcoasthandle]

You're looking at the wrong images The advantage of the SSAA is that it makes the picture look crystal clear and sharp with no antialiasing whatsoever (including the transparency aa) so there is nothing that can blur the image and so it becomes so clear.
But at teh expense of huge perfomance drop. I'm testing it in crysis rigth now and while in 1920x1200 8qxfsaa+2xtraa it gives me 35fps on average, with ssaa it is probably 5-15fps ..... I'll post more exact figures a bit later.

This is not correct based on the images in that link. When __SSAA (TSSSA) is applied it makes the jaggies blurry. To imply that it's "crystal clear" is just an inaccurate stab at my post to create an argument . One thing you avoided when replying to my post is that TSSAA doesn't remove the jaggies. They are still there making the use of it moot.