Sandforce Drives and R0? Maintenance possible/needed?

[jcool]

Hey guys,

Anvil's SSD testing has me craving a pair of SF-1200 50GB SSDs in Raid 0 for my OS partition (Win7 Pro x64) - OCZ Vertex LEs are in stock at my local distributor's for 150€ a piece (w/o taxes), and I am about to purchase them.
Just a few questions beforehand, as I am only familiar with Intel, Indilinx and Jmicrap-based drives:

1. These drives support TRIM, but since there is no way to pass on the TRIM command in Raid 0, is there another way to do "maintenance" on those drives? Like GC for Indilinx?
2. Do they even need maintenance, or are they pretty much "stable" performance-wise like the X25-Ms? Of course I am aware of the "do an image, wipe drives, re-load Image" procedure but I'd like to keep this to a minimum (like once a year tops)
3. I am currently running a single 60GB CSX Q2 SSD (Indilinx) which supports GC. I've freshly set it up with Windows 7 a few months ago, so it is properly aligned. Can I just clone that Image to the new Raid 0 or would that be a bad idea performance-wise? No clue what Win7 uses for default Offset, or what I should use for 2x Sandforce drives in R0.
4. What Raid stripe size should I use? I remember 128k worked best for 2x Indilinx in R0.

Controller is the ICH10R (GB EX58-Extreme/evga E760, soon to be Classified SR-2), no LSI 92xx for me (yet)

Thanks guys!

[Anvil]

1+2) There is of course some sort of GC on the SandForce based drives, I just don't know how it works yet.
I've seen signs of improving performance using 2R0, meaning performance can somehow be better than new in some cases, strange but a fact.
There will be a "Toolbox" for the SandForce based drives but I don't think it'll work using raid.
Image -> clean -> reload-image would be the way to go, how often depends on your workload.
I've been using the Intel G2's on the 9260 for a long time and they don't need cleaning even after 6-7 months.

3) Should work, TrueImage restores the offset.
I suggest doing a fresh install, thats just my preferrence though.
4) 128KB works great on the LE drives, however, I prefer using small stripe sizes (8-16KB).
I'll schedule a test on my LE's using 16KB asap.

You won't regret getting 2 of these, they are wicked fast.
Just remember that a few firmware upgrades might be needed for stability and performance.

[jcool]

Thanks anvil. I am aware of the risks, it's new Tech after all
As to the stripe size - which one should I pick now? I am confused
No large files on the array.. it will hold Win7 + everyday apps like Outlook, Office, Firefox, Winamp, MIRC/Skype/ICQ and of course, BOINC
Increased CPU load for smaller stripe size shouldn't be an issue, as I am running an X5680 hexacore @ 4,5Ghz - soon to be 2 CPUs @ evga SR-2
So, smaller stripe size for me then, I guess? 16-32KB?

[Anvil]

I've only tried 128KB so far, given the stellar performance on 4KB random iops I guess 16KB would be a great place to start.

[jcool]

Ah, right. If you could do some testing with 16-32kb within the next 2 days, that would be greatly appreciated
Oh yeah, I haven't found any differences in specs for the different size models. Is that an error or is the 50GB version really as fast as the 100 and 200GB drives?

Finally, I just switched my ICH from AHCI to RAID mode. It's incredibly easy if you know how, a matter of 10 seconds really. Check out this post, definitely need to know for everyone

[Anvil]

If you haven't read Anands review on the OWC 50GB you should do so. (it's basically the same drive)

Link to review

It's a bit slower on random writes than the 100GB/200GB editions.
It might just be an early firmware issue, anyways, it should be a great performer.

[jcool]

Thanks, but doesn't the OWC-50 use the SF-1500 controller? Or it did when Anand tested it

[Anvil]

No, they're using the same controller as the LE.

At that time there was no SF-1500 controller, in fact there still is no SF-1500 "controller"
The only difference between the SF-1200 and the SF-1500 is that the SF-1500 carries a different firmware and has more features enabled.

Link to Anand : understanding-sandforces-sf1200-sf1500

[jcool]

Hm.. the drop in performance seems rather large compared to the 100GB drive.
I might go with a single 100GB drive instead then.. unless it's a simple firmware issue. Damn I was so sure

[Anvil]

Remember, most operations are read.

I'd recommend 2R0 50GB vs 1x 100GB LE.

[GullLars]

+1, 2R0 50GB should work great. Remember SandForce drives use compression, so you will get much better numbers on compressable data

[jcool]

Guys, about the "bad" random 4k performance of the 50GB OWC as shown on Anand's: Isn't it possible that this is with the "new" firmware, artificially limiting the aligned 4k random writes to be 1/3rd of what they should be?
Kinda afraid these OCZ drives will have that crippling FW Update as well...

[SteveRo]

@ jcool - could be but you would need a drive and both f/w to test.
do we have access to both f/w?