XtremeSystems Forums

Go Back   XtremeSystems Forums > Hardware > AMD

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-12-2009, 06:06 AM   #1
chew*
No rest for the weary
 
chew*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,359
Talking Hmmm now what could this be?

Feb 12, 2009 7:51 AM On FedEx vehicle for delivery WARWICK, RI
Feb 12, 2009 7:25 AM At local FedEx facility WARWICK, RI
Feb 12, 2009 6:28 AM At dest sort facility WARWICK, RI
Feb 12, 2009 3:48 AM Departed FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN
Feb 12, 2009 12:08 AM Arrived at FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN
Feb 11, 2009 10:05 PM Left FedEx origin facility AUSTIN, TX
Feb 11, 2009 6:11 PM Picked up AUSTIN, TX
Feb 11, 2009 4:52 PM Shipment information sent to FedEx

I know its not a silver new nothing as I already got that last week
__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/

http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa View Post
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.
chew* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 06:12 AM   #2
dng
Xtreme Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 193
it's the am3 945 ES . congrats. i hope it's something good. please do share with us.
dng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 06:18 AM   #3
G0ldBr1ck
Xtreme PhenomII Addict
 
G0ldBr1ck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Birmingham AL.
Posts: 1,029
Send a message via MSN to G0ldBr1ck
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post
Feb 12, 2009 7:51 AM On FedEx vehicle for delivery WARWICK, RI
Feb 12, 2009 7:25 AM At local FedEx facility WARWICK, RI
Feb 12, 2009 6:28 AM At dest sort facility WARWICK, RI
Feb 12, 2009 3:48 AM Departed FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN
Feb 12, 2009 12:08 AM Arrived at FedEx location MEMPHIS, TN
Feb 11, 2009 10:05 PM Left FedEx origin facility AUSTIN, TX
Feb 11, 2009 6:11 PM Picked up AUSTIN, TX
Feb 11, 2009 4:52 PM Shipment information sent to FedEx

I know its not a silver new nothing as I already got that last week
Grats, I have one heading my way too. Cant wait to abuse it
__________________
Quote:
Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

Rule 1A:
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

Rule 2:
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

Rule 2A:
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
G0ldBr1ck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 06:21 AM   #4
[XC] gomeler
Diablo 3! Who's Excited?
 
[XC] gomeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 8,206
Send a message via AIM to [XC] gomeler
I agree, an AM3 ES. I believe most AMD ES chips in NA ship from their offices in Texas, I'd confirm it being Austin but I can't find my box full of invoices. Have fun with it, let's see some screaming clocks with some Core i7 DDR3 memory kits
__________________
Team PURE is about kickass pirates and unicorns defeating ninjas.
[XC] gomeler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 06:22 AM   #5
chew*
No rest for the weary
 
chew*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by dng View Post
it's the am3 945 ES . congrats. i hope it's something good. please do share with us.
Hmm I don't think its a 945 or ES...preety sure its retail. I'm working on getting some DDR3, nothing spectacular but it works and it's 1600 speed. Still have to decide on motherboard, was hoping to see some results/pros/cons of the gigabyte/asus.
__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/

http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa View Post
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.

Last edited by chew*; 02-12-2009 at 06:25 AM.
chew* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 06:23 AM   #6
dng
Xtreme Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 193
i always dream of getting an ES to play with. i'll keep on dreaming . i can't wait to see some results. i'm very excited about am3, but probably won't be able to afford it till later on this year. maybe end of the year.
dng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 06:44 AM   #7
chew*
No rest for the weary
 
chew*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,359
Well that was quick, guessing game is over.



Hmm I wonder if anyone is interested in seeing results...maybe i'll just pop it in tommorow
__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/

http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa View Post
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.

Last edited by chew*; 03-03-2009 at 02:49 PM.
chew* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 06:51 AM   #8
Raiderman
Xtreme Member
 
Raiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 481
Send a message via MSN to Raiderman
Always interested in results!! Pop that baby in!
__________________
C3 Phenom II 965 BE (0941CPMW)
Msi 790Fx-GD 70
2x2 gb OCZ AMD Black Edition 1600mhz DDR 3
2x MSI HD 5850's OC edition X-fire
2x Western Digital 250gb 16mb cache Raid-0
1x Seagate 1 TB Data
SILVERSTONE|DA700 700W RT Power Supply
Koolance INX-720 (Koolance 345 block)
LianLi pc-60fwb



Raiderman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 07:05 AM   #9
dng
Xtreme Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 193
that was really quick. yes please results please. go for the gigabyte board. the 5 series. have fun chew. i'm going to get the 925 when it's out. the unlock multi is very tempting on the 720. xbitlabs and anandtech seem to like the 720 a lot too. please post results when you can.
dng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 07:27 AM   #10
chew*
No rest for the weary
 
chew*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,359
Very cool running chip, Here's a shot stock to show defaults speeds, voltage and temps.

__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/

http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa View Post
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.
chew* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 07:28 AM   #11
nanohead
Xtreme Enthusiast
 
nanohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Jersey, Center of the Universe
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post
Hmm I don't think its a 945 or ES...preety sure its retail. I'm working on getting some DDR3, nothing spectacular but it works and it's 1600 speed. Still have to decide on motherboard, was hoping to see some results/pros/cons of the gigabyte/asus.
You're gonna kill me for saying this

I'd try the Asus at this point

(you can kill me now )




and no, I don't hate gigabyte (while the M3A79-T and the Jetway HA07 Ultra are out for RMA, and the M2A-VM linux machine is down, my ENTIRE house is ALL gigabyte, cept the servers)
__________________
Asus M3A79-T W/ PII 720@3.6Ghz DTek Fuzion Water Block
Raptor X 150G Boot Device & 3 X WD 500GB in RAID 5 Load Device
8G OCZ Reaper @1066
2xVisiontek 4870 Xfire @790/1080Mhz w/XPSC Water Blocks
Razer Barracuda Sound System
Windows Vista 64 Bit SP1
LG 24" 1920X1200
nanohead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 07:38 AM   #12
chew*
No rest for the weary
 
chew*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanohead View Post
You're gonna kill me for saying this

I'd try the Asus at this point

(you can kill me now )

and no, I don't hate gigabyte (while the M3A79-T and the Jetway HA07 Ultra are out for RMA, and the M2A-VM linux machine is down, my ENTIRE house is ALL gigabyte, cept the servers)
Nah I have no brand loyalty when it comes to motherboards, its either hit or miss. Some times they get lucky and it works, sometimes it doesn't.

The gigabyte is a PITA to get 2800+ NB speeds on and refuses to cold boot @ 2800+ NB, then again its a GX board, not necessarily enthusiast. Probably the best GX board of them all, It was/is a temp solution to test with.

Dumo regards the asus M4A79 rather highly, hopefully the AM3 variant does as well.

My daughter will likely inherit 790gx with a 3250e if i can find one.

If plans work out this weekend I will probably be able to see both boards in action firsthand. If not then I will put this chip under DI on the GX board.
__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/

http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa View Post
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.

Last edited by chew*; 02-12-2009 at 07:56 AM.
chew* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 07:45 AM   #13
Linux_Box
I am Xtreme
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Spring Texas (near Houston)
Posts: 134
Where'd you order it from?

Runs really cool. Is it Air cooled? (sig doesn't indicate WC).

OC and report ASAP!!
__________________
Primary rig:
e5200 @3.875 (12.5x310) / Gigabyte EP45-UD3R / Sapphire 4830 @720/940 / OCZ Platinum 2GB DDR2-1100 /
Water cooled- CPU: Fuzion v1 / Laing D4 / Bonnieville Heatercore + MCR120

For sale: AMD 4200+ Toledo / ASROCK DUAL SATAII
Linux_Box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 07:50 AM   #14
chew*
No rest for the weary
 
chew*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,359
Santa claus sent it to me

Its on air, I think AOD may be reporting temps wrong, gonna stick my multimeter probe on it and see what it says.

Temp on heatpipe closest to center of cpu and closest to actual IHS says 23C via probe, ambient is 22C.....
__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/

http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa View Post
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.

Last edited by chew*; 02-12-2009 at 07:55 AM.
chew* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 08:07 AM   #15
Throwed
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Augusta, SC USA
Posts: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post
Santa claus sent it to me

Its on air, I think AOD may be reporting temps wrong, gonna stick my multimeter probe on it and see what it says.

Temp on heatpipe closest to center of cpu and closest to actual IHS says 23C via probe, ambient is 22C.....
I hate you!
Throwed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 08:07 AM   #16
G0ldBr1ck
Xtreme PhenomII Addict
 
G0ldBr1ck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Birmingham AL.
Posts: 1,029
Send a message via MSN to G0ldBr1ck
Chew, Keep us up to date on the boards. I should have my 945BE in the next few days so Ive gotta decide on a board until then. I realy do like the looks of that Gigabyte board.
__________________
Quote:
Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.

Rule 1A:
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.

Rule 2:
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.

Rule 2A:
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.

Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
G0ldBr1ck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 08:17 AM   #17
afireinside
I am Xtreme
 
afireinside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ
Posts: 8,356
Send a message via AIM to afireinside Send a message via MSN to afireinside
I wish AMD sent me surprises

It can't be at 16C if ambient is 22C
__________________
Phenom II 940 BE / ASUS M4A79 / HD5770
3808mhz CPU 2720mhz NB | DDR1088 5-5-5-15 | 975/1300
afireinside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 09:09 AM   #18
kg4icg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Herndon, Va
Posts: 22
now you just have to contend with this issue
http://www.techpowerup.com/84955/Phe...333_Issue.html
kg4icg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 09:22 AM   #19
chew*
No rest for the weary
 
chew*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by afireinside View Post
I wish AMD sent me surprises

It can't be at 16C if ambient is 22C
If it makes you feel any better AFI, I chopped the tip of my finger off with my nasty delta fan while testing

Working on 4.2 validation atm......





__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/

http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa View Post
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.
chew* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 09:24 AM   #20
Dumo
X.I.P.
 
Dumo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,255
Grats with the new toy Chew

Daymn, I have to cover weekend AM shift @ work. Couldn't make it this wkend

My M4A79T already here, but X4 925 still in Canada
Dumo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 09:30 AM   #21
Dumo
X.I.P.
 
Dumo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post
If it makes you feel any better AFI, I chopped the tip of my finger off with my nasty delta fan while testing

Working on 4.2 validation atm......
4.2G with air then 4.9/5G will be easy with ss.
It will be huge on 3D 05 and 03

I want one for this weekend, too bad newegg haven't post it yet.
Dumo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 09:45 AM   #22
Oliverda
Xtreme Enthusiast
 
Oliverda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hungary (EU)
Posts: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by kg4icg View Post
now you just have to contend with this issue
http://www.techpowerup.com/84955/Phe...333_Issue.html
It's not a big issue for the majority. I haven't used more than two modules since my 386 DX. I think they will fix this issue in the C3 stepping.

Anyway similar or worse issue exists on DDR2-1066 since the first Phenom B2 stepping.



Even so, I've never experienced this issue on my machine.
__________________

Motherboard: MSI 790FX-GD70
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 C3
Cooler: TR Ultra-120 eXtreme
Fan: Sharkoon Silent Eagle SE 12cm (1.2K RPM)
RAM: pending...
VGA: pending...
HD0: WD VelociRaptor 150GB
HD1: Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1TB
Burner:Samsung SH-S223Q (LightScribe)
Sound: SB X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro
Mouse: Logitech Performance Mouse MX
PSU: Seasonic X650 Gold
Case: Chieftec Bravo BX
OS: WinXP Pro SP3 32bit


Am386 DX-40 -> Am5x86-P75 -> AMD K6-2 400MHz -> Athlon XP 2500+ -> Athlon XP 1700+ -> Athlon 64 3000+ (Winchester) -> Athlon 64 3000+ (Venice) -> Athlon 64 X2 4200+ -> Opteron 165 -> Opteron 1214 ->
Phenom 9500 -> Phenom X4 9850 -> Phenom X4 9950 (140W&125W) -> Phenom II X4 940 -> Phenom II X3 720 -> Phenom II X2@X4
Oliverda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 09:58 AM   #23
jenner
Registered User
 
jenner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denmark, Europe
Posts: 32
Send a message via MSN to jenner
Nice toy
Im gonna play with the M4A79, 940, F1 pot and LN2 tomorrow !
__________________
OCTeamDenmark Crew - Cooled and Sponsored by Coolerkit.dk

Preparing M4A79 Deluxe For 940 BE LN2

Best result atm.
jenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 10:08 AM   #24
chew*
No rest for the weary
 
chew*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,359
Here it is 4.2 AIR validation at alot warmer ambients than I was able to do with the 940BE.

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=506068

__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/

http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa View Post
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.
chew* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2009, 10:17 AM   #25
chew*
No rest for the weary
 
chew*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dark horse in R.I.
Posts: 6,359
this chip is preety amazing, not as sensitive to volts as my 940 BE, 1.65v in bios and still booting windows at fairly warm ambients.

Gonna see if I can squeeze a little more out of it for a suicide......
__________________
heatware chew*
AMD is Back in Black Lifes more fun at -190C
How To Behave On An Internet Forum
http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/02/...eed-the-troll/

http://www.livestream.com/chewsdisasterarea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sampsa View Post
1) Normal ES: Available to partners and press before the product actually launches. These are usually close to retail parts, maybe one stepping/node before retails. From my experience (I've had access to AMD & Intel ES CPUs before the official launch around 8 years) normal ES CPUs are actually usually worse than retails because manufacturing process develops all the time and retails keep getting better. Every Phenom II press sample (not even marked as ES but couple weeks earlier than retail parts) I've tested so far have been worse than normal retails.

Last edited by chew*; 02-12-2009 at 10:35 AM.
chew* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
XtremeSystems