First Build Advice

[DeviousRVN]

Hi Guys,

Been lurking forever, doing my research and planing my first WC setup, I've got a lot of choices made, but still need some advice...

The Hardware this WC setup is going to be used with is as follows:

Intel Core i7 965
Gigabyte EX58-Extreme
Corsair 3x2GB DDR3-1600-9-9-9-24
2 x 4870x2 in Crossfire
3 x 1TB Samsung Spinpoint
Silverstone Strider 1200W
Some sort of Blu-Ray Drive (Probably the LG combo drive)

Currently in a Lian-Li PC-X2000, but I'm not really liking this case for WC, so I'm planning to heavily customize a TJ07 for this WC build. (Which I will start a build log for soon)

The WC parts I've got planned so far are as follows...

Swiftech MCP655 (with 1/2 barbs)
Feser One X-360 TFC Xchanger Triple 120MM Water Cooling Radiator G1/4
Swiftech Apogee GTZ (Anyone know where I can find one even listed for sale in Canada?!)
2x Danger Den DD-4870x2 Full Cover Blocks
EK Water Blocks Ek Multioption Res 150 Rev.2 G1/4

I'm really not sure what to do about barbs or tubing, and if this is going to be a strong enough loop, so I would greatly appreciate any advice or tips you guys might have!!! Price isn't an issue, and feel free to change out parts i've chosen if you feel there is something better, I'm interested in building the best that I possibly can.

[Conumdrum]

Good parts selection. Running two 4870x2 your going to need one rad like you listed above, one pump, one res just for that. And another 120.2 sized rad with it's own pump and res for the CPU. Two completely seperate loops.

Otherwise, not a bad start.

One GPU would be okay with your WC list. I'd think with one massive 4870x2 GPU and an i7 you might look at the 480 sized Feser (TFC) rad for elbow room when you overclock. I'm sure you will, hehe.

Don't forget hose, res/T-line, fittings, liquid, and fan selection.

I like the DD blocks have used two diff ones and they worked great.

The rad you chose is very good. Able to pull a lot of heat and do it with low CFM fans. Only the PA Thermochill series is as good with quiet fans. But the MCR series of rads is MUCH cheaper and almost as good. The diff is you can run medium fans controlled to low on a PA or Feser, with a MCR rad they would stay on med speed. Bit more noise, not much. Your money, I go top notch if I can afford it.

Fans? Petras for medium Yate Loons. There are better but none at the price and many many happy users.

Pump? Better to get the MCP 355 with the XSPC res top, very very well rated. And a built in res. You said cost isn't a worry, extra $30, worth it. They look SOOO much nicer than a 655 pump, and smaller too. Better flow and head pressure too.

Tubing? Tygon is the standard. 1/2ID 3/4OD, but thee are cheaper ones and diff sizes.

Liquid? Distilled water and two Ian Silver coils per loop, or the new PN Nuke from Petras, like a whopping 2 drops per loop. If you need color/UV bling etc, there is colored tubing. Please stay simple on the liquid, get bling from colored hose.

Res? Two standard proven choices. The Swiftech V2 Microres or the XSPC cylinders, in the 150+ mm length. Up to you if you don't go with the pump/top I mentioned.

Fittings? Quality barbs and line hose clamps are the most secure vs cost, about $3 per fitting total. Next is the beautiful compression fittings at $8 each or so. Times the amount you need it can be a huge huge diff.

Couple places to check, there are others more peeps will recommend.

http://www.dangerden.com/index.php [...] e&Itemid=1
http://www.petrastechshop.com/
http://www.jab-tech.com/
Umm Performance PC's I guess.

If you want two 4870 x2 GPUS, you HAVE to go two loops. You will have too much heat for the rads, they only can do what physics let them do.

[PsYcHoNo0b727]

Hi Guys,

Been lurking forever, doing my research and planing my first WC setup, I've got a lot of choices made, but still need some advice...

The Hardware this WC setup is going to be used with is as follows:

Intel Core i7 965
Gigabyte EX58-Extreme
Corsair 3x2GB DDR3-1600-9-9-9-24
2 x 4870x2 in Crossfire
3 x 1TB Samsung Spinpoint
Silverstone Strider 1200W
Some sort of Blu-Ray Drive (Probably the LG combo drive)

Currently in a Lian-Li PC-X2000, but I'm not really liking this case for WC, so I'm planning to heavily customize a TJ07 for this WC build. (Which I will start a build log for soon)

The WC parts I've got planned so far are as follows...

Swiftech MCP655 (with 1/2 barbs)
Feser One X-360 TFC Xchanger Triple 120MM Water Cooling Radiator G1/4
Swiftech Apogee GTZ (Anyone know where I can find one even listed for sale in Canada?!)
2x Danger Den DD-4870x2 Full Cover Blocks
EK Water Blocks Ek Multioption Res 150 Rev.2 G1/4

I'm really not sure what to do about barbs or tubing, and if this is going to be a strong enough loop, so I would greatly appreciate any advice or tips you guys might have!!! Price isn't an issue, and feel free to change out parts i've chosen if you feel there is something better, I'm interested in building the best that I possibly can.

Good stuff you got here! A couple things you want to consider though. A lot of people around here love the MCP350 pumps with the XSPC top and I would have to agree with them. Only reason I am using a MCP655 is cuz I had one laying around from a while back, and I had a Koolance base that allows me to change input and output ports around .

Your res is a good choice, I have the EK multi option res and its a solid piece of equipment. If you plan to use the bottom port though, I would recommend that you look into the Anti-Cyclone add in for that, got mine from Petra's Tech Shop, its only $3.50.

The DD block doesn't seem back at all, Ive been using nVidia for a long time, and my current build is water cooling a GTX 280 with the Danger Den Teiton water block. The Teiton block is a solid block, very well put together from just inspecting it out of the box, so I can't imagine the 4870X2 block to be any worse.

For the Swiftech GTZ, http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swapgtzexpew.html They ship round the world .

I got a Feser 360 for my current build and the thing is a beast, it is huge! Make sure you can fit that inside of the case w/ 3 fans on it lol. Just saying, in a TJ07 you should be fine.

[cdnbum88]

Have you looked at the XSPC Razor GPU blocks? Price is pretty good. I got mine from Sidewinder Computer.

[DeviousRVN]

First, thanks for the great replies guys! So much help, really appreciate!

Ok, I thought I might have to go with two loops.

So for the CPU loop then:

Swiftech Apogee GTZ
Feser One X-480 TFC Xchanger Quadruple 120MM Water Cooling Radiator G1/4
Swiftech MCP355 High Performance 12V Industrial Water Cooling Pump 3/8IN Barbs
XSPC Acrylic Reservoir for Laing DDC

And for the GPUs:

2x Danger Den DD-4870x2 Full Cover Blocks
Feser One X-360 TFC Xchanger Triple 120MM Water Cooling Radiator G1/4
Swiftech MCP355 High Performance 12V Industrial Water Cooling Pump 3/8IN Barbs
XSPC Acrylic Reservoir for Laing DDC

I'm thinking I want to go with compression fittings as they do look sexy as hell, need some advice there, and then advice on tubing to match, Tygon sounds good, after reading the 18 different types of tubing compared, my head is still spinning lol.

Going with the two Reservoir top's for the DDC's I'm assuming eliminates my need for the large EK reservoir then?

Also, wondering if this will all fit in the TJ07 comfortably with 3 HDD's as well...

[IronWarrior]

You seem to have almost the same build as me in terms of the CPU and two 4870 x2, be watching this thread closely since I don't have a clue about water cooling.

But I was thinking of using 4 Swiftech MCW60R VGA Waterblocks for the CPU, direct cooling is meant to be best or something then a entire block.

[upsidedown]

whouldnt you want to switch the rads, x480 for GPUs and x360 for CPU.

[DeviousRVN]

I looked at Yate Loon's, and for the same DBA, I can get pretty much double the airflow with these...

120mm Xigmatek XLF-F1251 Case Fan (72 CFM/24 dBA)

Anyone have any experience with them? I've seen them used in some builds. Also, anyone have any more advice and suggestions re tubing/compression fittings (specifically sizes), so I can go ahead and order

[Linchpin]

You shouldn't pay too much attention to manufacurers claims when it comes to fan CFM and dBa since they're almost always wrong. Like for the example the SilenX fans that claim to push something like 90CFM at 14db when they actually push next no air at all and what little they do push goes in two directions, Yate Loon meanwhile is quite honest about their fan specifications.

[Conumdrum]

Don't trust manufactures specs pretty much with fans. Get what peeps recommend. Those fans you are looking at, what is their performance for CFM once coupled to a rad? Then we are talking pressure ability of a fan. Lots to consider.

Did ya read through the fan reviews?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=202394

And yes, you got the rads reversed. 480 if you need it on the GPU's, 360 is plenty for the CPU.

Yes, those pump tops remove the requirement for a res.

[DeviousRVN]

Fair enough, I'l stick with the Yate loon's. Oh, I didn't even realize I did that oops, yeah did mean to have the 480 for the GPU's and the 360 for the CPU.

And yup, read the fan reviews, realized exactly what you guys were talking about, definitely going with the Yate Loon's.

So now all I need to figure out is compression fittings, size and tubing.

[Conumdrum]

Tubing....... Some say that using 3/8 ID tubing makes little diff vs 1/2ID. I tend to agree with YOUR SETUP. You have low restriction parts, and the flow hit by dropping down to 3/8 ID would be acceptable. It would make the use of compression fittings MUCH easier, and the tubing is much easier to use.

Been here yet? Couple hours of important reading. Play with the flow calculator to learn about flow rates etc.

http://www.martinsliquidlab.com/

Some will shoot me from saying use 3/8 ID, I use 1/2 ID but no compression fittings, I don't feel the extra money was worth it.

[DeviousRVN]

Well Ideally I didn't actually want to go with compression fittings, I wanted to go with none and wait for the Evil clamp's in the color I want. So if that were the case, what barbs would I need to use then, since i'm a noooob :P

Thanks a lot for your guys' help again, going to make this process a lot easier for me! and more fun!

[Conumdrum]

You want pretty colors or just super cooling? You can have both. Go to Danger Den and look at their UV colored tubing. For the best tubing for anti-growth, get Tygon silver. I use it, very bland. But a few drops of PN-Nuke and it's not an issue anyway.

So, if your gonna go barbs, use Danger Den fatboys, very well made, large hole, good oring setup, one of the most popular. 1/2" OD barbs. Hose, well....... I suggest 1/2 ID and 3/4" OD. Clamps? Hose/screw clamps with the inner lining. Those neato clamps by evil..... You read how old the thread is and are they ever going to be availible?

[DeviousRVN]

Yeah I read... Ok, I'll check out the fatboy's now Thanks!
Could I run them without clamps until those neato clamps by evil come in... I've seen it done enough, seems as long as you've got a tight fit lol... I just really don't like the look of a lot of clamps.

[Conumdrum]

Darnit, &*(^*&*^%^&&%$#. DO NOT RUN WITRHOUT CLAMPS. You haven't read enough to get it in your head, and your not experianced enough to know when you can and can't

I can't stress it enough.

[DeviousRVN]

lol, running clamps then.

[DeviousRVN]

And then I change my mind again. I can't find insulated clamps in stock anywhere... anyone have any advice on where to get???!

[DeviousRVN]

Ok so the setup is as now follows: (thanks to the awesome help of Conumdrum!)

Case: TJ07
Barbs: Danger Den Fatboys
Clamps: ?
Tubing: Tygon R-3603 1/2IN ID 3/4IN OD Tubing 5 Feet x3 (Tried to find silver in stock, but haven't yet, going to be sleeving these anyway)
Fans: Yate Loon D12SL-12

CPU Loop:

Swiftech Apogee GTZ
Feser One X-360 TFC Xchanger Triple 120MM Water Cooling Radiator G1/4
Swiftech MCP355 High Performance 12V Industrial Water Cooling Pump 3/8IN Barbs
XSPC Acrylic Reservoir for Laing DDC

And for the GPUs:

2x Danger Den DD-4870x2 Full Cover Blocks
Feser One X-480 TFC Xchanger Quadruple 120MM Water Cooling Radiator G1/4
Swiftech MCP355 High Performance 12V Industrial Water Cooling Pump 3/8IN Barbs
XSPC Acrylic Reservoir for Laing DDC

What i'm wondering is how those Herbie Clips are, if they're worth it at all, I can't find lined stainless steel clamps anywhere in stock. Also, wondering if i'm going to see a huge increase in temps if I drop the 480 to a 360 for the GPU loop, I'm concerned about fitment in the TJ07.

Now all I need is a fan controller, temp sensor for each loop and I think that's it unless anyone has any other suggestions or comments?! Thanks

[basserdan]

Some kind of clamp it would seem, is basic unstupidity in a situation involving pumping water through hoses that snake through thousands of dollars worth of electronic equip. I've always used worm gear metal clamps but, recently I noticed how uneven a seemingly very round clamp can tighten around a small fitting(mine are 1/2"). I'm going with zip ties this next time.

[Conumdrum]

And as an experainced user, basserdan I agree. Second or 30th time around, you learn what you can get away with. Love the 'basic unstupidity' LOL!!!!

Herbie clips are a okay... option. If your good with your hands and have that 'mechanical brain knack' I don't see why not. The only issues I have seen is peeps not making them tight enough (leaks), or too tight. Since they are plastic, too tight and the little plastic teeth can give way, and usually not right away (leaks). They give a cleaner look tho than worm clamps for sure. So depends on your experiance............ Love the 'basic unstupidity'..... covers it well.

Nothing wrong with Ace hardware clamps either. Lined ones put a bit less dings on the hose, but really not an issue with 1/2 ID 3/4 OD hose, it's thick walled. Lots of us replace the hose in a year or 1.5 years, with rebuilds and full cleaning every 6 months or so. Tubing gets harder as it gets older, the plasticizer leaches out making the tubing less flexible. Meaning poorer fittings. Next year I'll be dumping my Tygon Sliver and getting Fesser colored tubing, it's so bling! Ohh Snap!!!!

You mentioned maybe going compression to start, but decided on barbs and maybe going to compression later. Barbs alone on your dual setup, at umm 16? is a pretty penny to start with. If you got the cash, why not go compression to start? Sure you'll more than double your connection cost, but your done.

Tubing amounts.... I'd look at at 15' if not 20'. I have a nekkid PC on a piece of wood, very easy to work on. A case is just a box that I have to open to work on. I have a CPU/GPU/NB and pump, res, rad. My run is pretty darn short, I don't have to worry about where to place stuff. I used 7' or so on my loop. Your running two loops and have to make it fit... Longer runs for sure. You will use the extra someday. About running short......... We don't like the short word in mens watercooling. My wife mentioned that when she saw me typing this.

Running a 360 on the two vid cards would be okay. These cards run soooo freaking hot, anything under 60C and quiet is a great uber-doober improvement. You run a 480, you might see high 40's to high 50's. But if it's 63C instead, thats still PLENTY good for the GPUs. And your getting a capable rad to start. If you had to crank the fans to high (Yate Med) it's still not loud at all. So yea, the 360 will prolly be enuff.

You search for case mods with TWO Feser 360's in it? Got the case yet? Ever hear of Mountain Mods? I'd LOVE to get one of those if I was a case using dude. They are the bomb if you got the $$, like $350 to $400 for a case that will easily hold it all, well made too.

Lastly, fan controllers. I know little. I bought a crapo fancy with temp sensors and auto fan control. Sucked. Bought one at Frys that seems to work great, wasn't stoopid expensive. It handles 3 YLM on one channel (wired them in parallel) and it's been great for almost a year. There are uber ones etc. Look for reviews and user input.

You need a fan controller that can handle 3 major fan loops. Rad 1, Rad 2, and a few case fans. Ohh drop any need for temp sensors etc on a fan controller. Software tools will tell you plenty, then you adjust the knob. Me? I adjust in the winter, and again in the summer. Room temps winter 67-72F, summer 78- 85F.

Damn, I gotta quit typing, I got a game to play. Witcher EE edition, best RPG I ever played. Nothing like having a Dwarf walk by in town and say "F%$##", F%$%^ the Humans", outta the blue. It's so real.

[Conumdrum]

We can talk about building, testing, other issues later. You are buying quality stuff to start, just have to put it together. No rush... Please. I didn't type this for you to fail. Off to kill stuff and pick up another hooker in Witcher.

JK, except the hooker part.

[Dangals]

Nice looking build you will have going there

One thing I just want to point out that no-one else seems to have mentioned is that you will not be able to fit a 480 and 360 rad in the bottom of a TJ07. Trust me. You could do a 480 and a 240 as the PSU will get in the way of the 360. In my build (click on pic in sig for log) I put a PA120.3 and a PA120.2 in the base of my TJ07 and it is a VERY tight fit...but I could replace the 120.3 with a 480 easily.

Also I also used 2x XSPC restops with MCP355 pumps for my seperate loops and they are awesome - easy to bleed and made the loop setup so much easier

Tubing - I am using 3/8" tubing on 1/2" barbs with no clamps and everything is fine. It takes a little bit of work to get them on but once they are on the only thing removing the tube from the barb is a razor blade

I agree with them putting both 4870x2 cards on the 480/360 (whichever you go with) and the CPU on the 240 by itself...

Lastly the main thing I have to say is that whatever parts you decide to get when you are putting everything together just remember to take your time. There is no need to rush and you will be much happier with the result if you plan you loops properly and remember to measure three times cut once

[upsidedown]

by the way, if you still havent got your gtz yet..

http://www.directcanada.com/products...cture=SWIFTECH

[DeviousRVN]

Once again conundrum, can't thank you enough for all of the help, advice and everything! Youv'e made this process a bazillion times easier. I'm going to finish up my reading and research today, and with everything you guys have said, I'll post up the final specs and start my ordering.

Dangals: Thanks! I looked at your build log, and loved it, gave me a lot to aspire too, I'm definitely one who takes my time and care in builds, and this one I hope will match the quality and caliber of yours. Just about to actually e-mail charles for some MM parts, and some advice on some custom parts if he's able.

upsidedown: Thanks! Just ordered it.

PS get me a hooker too.... I need something other than WC parts to occupy my time lol.