Need help stabilizing E8400 on IP35-E @ 4GHz

[techguy2k5]

I have the following configuration and am having difficulty getting my o/c to be completely stable.
E8400 Q746A483 @ 9x445, VCore set to 1.465 in BIOS, actual voltage according to CPU-Z and Abit EQ 1.392 @ idle and 1.360-1.376 @ load
NB @ 1.33V, VTT @ 1.2V in BIOS but reading 1.1V under load according to Abit EQ, GTLREF @ 63%
Abit IP35-E BIOS 15 (latest official)
Zerotherm Nirvana 120 (fan @ full RPM)
Geil 2x2GB DDR2 800 o/c'd to 890MHz using 1:1 (5-6-6-15-2T @ 2.1V)
rear 92MM exhaust fan
front 80MM intake fan
open case (mid-tower)
XP Pro

My system fails memtest test #7. I have tried bumping the voltage of both the RAM and the northbridge, but have seen no difference. All other tests pass without issue. My HSF, NB HS, and RAM heatspreaders are cool to the touch during memtest so heat isn't the problem.

This is my first endeavor at overclocking an Intel platform, so having to tweak all these timings and voltages is quite new to me. I'm thinking I need to either throw more volts at this or relax timings even further. I manually set TRP to 6, RAS to CAS to 6, TRAS to 18, and TRFC to 52.

Here's a screenshot of the "usual suspects":



Does anything jump out at anyone? Temps seem fine to me, all voltages are well within "acceptable limits" from what I've gathered reading this forum, RAM timings are severely relaxed from stock, I just don't get it...

Do I just need to buy better memory or what? I was thinking of getting G.Skill's 2x2GB PC8000 kit, so if that's what it's going to take then that's what I'll do.

Thanks in advance.

[LagunaX]

I don't have your mobo and am not that familiar with overclocking 2gb sticks but it seems to me that your northbridge is a bit low (most run 1.4-1.55) and definitely your ram - ddr2 ram at least for the 1gb sticks need 2.2v usually for that fsb. Of course lock pci-e to 100 and turn off eist/speedstep, etc.

[techguy2k5]

I don't have your mobo and am not that familiar with overclocking 2gb sticks but it seems to me that your northbridge is a bit low (most run 1.4-1.55) and definitely your ram - ddr2 ram at least for the 1gb sticks need 2.2v usually for that fsb. Of course lock pci-e to 100 and turn off eist/speedstep, etc.

Thanks, I'll try upping the DDR & NB volts a bit to see if it helps. PCIe clock is already locked @ 100 and all power-saving CPU features have been disabled.

Edit: no go. Up'd DDR to 2.2 and NB to 1.45, if anything it actually failed the tests quicker (only took 2 minutes on test 7, usually takes a full pass). Also, I was able to run small FFTs in Orthos for about an hour and a half without issue, but 30 seconds of SMP FAH caused the system to reboot. The system is stable under heavy CPU load, but not memory-intensive tasks. I know my CPU can take it, so that means either my memory isn't up to the task or the board isn't.

Looks like voltage isn't the answer. Any thoughts on the timings I'm running? Have I over-looked a particular setting that may give me stability?

[nzbleach]

try matching vtt with vcore.

[aoch88]

How do we match VTT and Vcore?

[TEDY]

E8400 Q746A483 @ 9x445, VCore set to 1.465 in BIOS

this is way too much vcore....keep it 1.4v BIOS.

[techguy2k5]

try matching vtt with vcore.

How do we match VTT and Vcore?

Yes, how do we match vtt and vcore? AFAICT my board only allows VTT up to 1.2375, and from what I've read these chips do not work well with high VTT.

E8400 Q746A483 @ 9x445, VCore set to 1.465 in BIOS

this is way too much vcore....keep it 1.4v BIOS.

Abit IP35 boards undervolt. A lot. Actual vcore under load (Orthos small FFTs) is 1.36-1.376. Individual core temps do not reach 60 degrees even after 90 minutes of this.

[techguy2k5]

There's a new beta BIOS out for the board which some other abit P35 + Wolfdale owners are reporting reduces the drop by quite a bit. I should be able to set vcore down to around 1.4 now for the same values (about 1.36V under load) in Windows. I'm going to try that tonight, as well as perhaps upping VTT and see if I can get stability.

[Spacehead]

Raise your tWTR to 15 or higher.

And I don't see any reason to use 5-6-6-6-15-2T , if 5-5-5-5-15-2T doesn't work @ that speed, throw those chips away.

[techguy2k5]

Thanks Spacehead! I'll raise tWTR and reset all other timings (except TRFC) back to default.

[Mav451]

Upping VTT is not necessary for this OC - and I would go as far to say that increasing it all, given your FSB is just terrible advice. For your FSB, NB voltage above 1.33 (stock) is not necessary. I left both of those at stock on my OC, and from my notes, nothing but vcore was required to scale up in clock rate, especially since you're on the 9x multiplier.

I would definitely change the RAM out. To be blunt, your RAM should never fail memtest - and if it does, either add the necessary voltage or get some better sticks. It goes without saying that your RAM should be passing with flying colors before doing anything else.

[techguy2k5]

Thanks for the advice Mav. Guess I'll just try increasing the tWTR setting and maybe applying more volts to RAM. It does make sense that none of the other voltages need to be changed, as I haven't seen them have any impact thus far.

Let me pose another question: if I do get some better RAM (say G.Skill PC8500 4GB kit) and shoot for a matched FSB (in this case 533MHz) is it likely that I will then have to increase any of the other voltages?

Thanks

[HaTaX]

If you go for a 533 fsb then you will most likely have to up other voltages, if you run the ram at a 5:6 timing then your FSB would be about 444 which shouldn't need much of a boost on the NB if any at all.

When I started with my CPU testing to see how high I could go with it I set my ram to 2.2v and the timings at 6-6-6-6-20 just to make sure the ram wasn't affecting my testing at all. But then again I've got cheap ram and I knew it going in.

[ziddey]

Not sure about that ram that you're using. You tested it known good in another platform to know it can hit those speeds? As mentioned, try slacking timings and subtimings as much as you can at first to see if anything happens. I had a ip35e as well and found it to be incredibly easy to overclock. I struck 500fsb on stock motherboard volts with a e6400.

I usually set pcie a few higher. 104 or so. Figure it might bring me that slight boost

[techguy2k5]

Well, flashed to a new beta BIOS last night that has better Wolfdale support, also tried all the advice given thus far but I still can't pass memtest #7 at these speeds. Looks like it's new memory time. Now the question is: G.Skill 8000 or 8500 4GB, or another brand?

[Blacklash]

Never mind, I see you've already tried that.

Try testing with plain old Prime 95 instead of Orthos.

[d50man]

ballistix 8500

[techguy2k5]

ballistix 8500

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not touching Crucial Ballistix with a 10 foot pole. Last time I used Ballistix I had to RMA it 5 times before I got a set that worked. That was DDR but I still hear plenty of reports of their DDR2 Ballistix being just as bad.

Also I need 4GB (2x2) kit.

[Mav451]

Wow that is some extraordinarily bad luck. I too had to RMA my DDR, but they actually refunded shipping too (which nobody does these days). So I gave them another chance for DDR2 and here we are

*shrug*

[little_scrapper]

You never mentioned wether your ram passes memtest at stock. Does it? And if increasing your Vmem made you fail FASTER.. then try active cooling on ram and NB if you dont already have it, as failing faster with a bump in V. sounds like a possible heat issue.

[techguy2k5]

You never mentioned wether your ram passes memtest at stock. Does it? And if increasing your Vmem made you fail FASTER.. then try active cooling on ram and NB if you dont already have it, as failing faster with a bump in V. sounds like a possible heat issue.

Hmm, thought I did... Yes, it passes @ stock settings no problem. 5-4-4-12 timings (I thought it was 5-5-5-15 for some reason) @ 2.0V and 400MHz I can throw memtest at it all day long, even just test #7.

As for heat - definitely not a problem. Even at the highest settings this stuff isn't even warm to the touch. My CPU fan draws air over the heatspreaders and I have an open case.

[ziddey]

Problem in the ddr2 world is that micron has such a strong leg up over the other companies. I'm not sure exactly what IC's the geils use, but I've used a few non micron ic's that just hit an absolute wall in the mid 400's despite voltage or slacking timings.

So you're talking about ballistix. Here's the problem. Depending on which gskill you go for, it'll be 1. more expensive, and 2. have the same problem as the ballistix if they are d9gmh/gkx. I've gone through a bunch of d9gmh myself, only once or twice exceeding the "recommended" voltage. Despite good cooling and whatnot, it's still very likely for these chips to die early. You kind of just have to live with that.

That said, there are reports of newer ballistix (at least the higher speed ballistix) using high density chips that don't overclock well at all and indeed can likely blow up within a week.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with your hatred for ballistix (I just popped in 2 ballistix a few days ago and am absolutely in love). But I do understand where you're coming from. And if you do decide on some d9's, you may be in for some upset down the road.

[mezryn]

I'm trying to stabilize my E8400 on an ABit IP35 PRO at 500MHz, and leaving CPU for now at 6x so 3GHz. I was only able to hit 500 FSB after changing the RAM (2x1g Crucial Ballistix 8500) from Auto to Manual.

1. I've got the RAM volted at 2.2v... is that enough? It's working 1:1 with the FSB, so is it potentially overvolted?

2. I changed to manual the first four settings... 5-5-5-18... would anybody know the other subsettings that I ought to manually set aside from tWTR to 15 per earlier post?

The issue is that I'm testing 3dmark06, and it'll begin stuttering in video, then BSOD or hang. Any other voltages I should be focused on right now? I've got mch running usually around 1.52... have had to modify other voltages here and there, but haven't found a much concrete way to proceed... not sure which voltages apply directly to having a stable FSB

Thanks!

---
E8400 | Abit IP35 Pro | 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix 1066 | Antec 900 w/ ZeroTherm NV120 | EVGA 8800GTS 512MB G92 | Cooler Master Real Power 650W

[Mav451]

mezryn - you need to figure out the difference between BIOS settings and Windows (or real) settings. Abit is massive vdroop as well (main reason I stayed away), but be sure to take notes on the differences.

E.g. say you set 2.23v for RAM in BIOS >> what does it give you in Windows? Exactly 2.23? DFI, for example, is -.05 for a Windows reading of 2.18vDIMM. Or vcore, for example. DFI - 1.28 in BIOS results in 1.296 in Windows. The stickler is that DFI has 0 vdroop during load, so obviously emulated my settings on a non-DFI board is a bad idea.

[techguy2k5]

Problem in the ddr2 world is that micron has such a strong leg up over the other companies. I'm not sure exactly what IC's the geils use, but I've used a few non micron ic's that just hit an absolute wall in the mid 400's despite voltage or slacking timings.

So you're talking about ballistix. Here's the problem. Depending on which gskill you go for, it'll be 1. more expensive, and 2. have the same problem as the ballistix if they are d9gmh/gkx. I've gone through a bunch of d9gmh myself, only once or twice exceeding the "recommended" voltage. Despite good cooling and whatnot, it's still very likely for these chips to die early. You kind of just have to live with that.

That said, there are reports of newer ballistix (at least the higher speed ballistix) using high density chips that don't overclock well at all and indeed can likely blow up within a week.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with your hatred for ballistix (I just popped in 2 ballistix a few days ago and am absolutely in love). But I do understand where you're coming from. And if you do decide on some d9's, you may be in for some upset down the road.

Hey, thanks for coming in my thread and spreading your Ballistix fanboy crap all over. Great contribution.

Did you not read where I said I had to RMA a set of Ballistix 5 ****ing times? Would you go back to a company that consistently screwed up over and over and over and over? I sure as hell won't.

As for your down-playing of G.Skill - I've already mentioned which G.Skill memory I'm looking at (4GB 8000 & 8500 kits) and they use powerchips and are quite affordable.