Questions about my WC rig (nice pictures included!)

[DVL73]

Hi there,

I have a few questions about my system and hopefully you will be able to give me some answers ... and yes, this is my first post here

Firstly, my system:

I had to change the HydrX for PrimoChill PC-ICE and introduce the AlphaCool plexi res, purely because of aesthetics reasons. Yeas, I know, it's hard to mix the style with substance ... but here is the explanation:

Before: (HydrX)





After: (PrimoChill PC-ICE UV blue)






There you go Laing DDC-1 plus & plexi top & plexi res in full glory. Was this look worth the slight performance penalty ? - hell yeah ... and it is now the core of the cooling system - visible too. Now, I'm talking about the performance penalty, because plexi res placement does hurth the water flow a bit ... but how much?! (as I really like the aesthetics now) . More suprisingly, what I noticed with PC-ICE (compared to HydrX) is that my water flow rates are bit down (approx 1l/min ... or from 8.6 l/min to 7.4 l/min - measured by t-balancer). Is this normal? Temperatures are slightly up, I think ... maybe 1C - 2C. Can you recommend the PC-ICE at all and should I flush it out & ditch it from the system ? More importantly, is it safe for long term run (as I never had problems with HydrX) ?

Look at the whirlpool in the resevoir, at least if static picture can show. Laing DDC-1plus (new revision) does deliver serious water punch, as flow rate is really (and visibly) high. You may notice that I'm using the plexi bay cover too (on the case) - so now there is a proper "window" at the front and case is properly closed too. Other parts are X1900XTX + Edvard König EK-FCX1900 & X2 3800 + Swiftech Storm. As I don't like the cluttered tubing, I'm keeping the minimal connection distance. That SilenX blue fan on the left is cooling the A8N-SLI Premium chipset. As you know, this motherboard have passive chipset cooling (when you are using CPU fan). In my case, I had to improvise ... by attaching it to the Storm water block - but it's working quite well and fan is almost silent. That black fan just beneath the X1900XTX is the VREG cooling leftover from the 7800GTX and it's not used now. It's there just in case You may notice the advantage when you can use the barbs on the both side of the EK water block. It's improving the flow and there is much less clutter, because of the straight tube lines. Tubing in question is Tygon R-3603.


Here is the front case look with the normal, dimmed desk light:




On the top of the case I have DD FillPort. You will notice that I'm using the Fillport & PlexiRes ... just for fun. It's convenient way to top-up the coolant, without opening your case or even accessing the reservoir (as picture with funnel can show you). I used it with great success and you can even fill & bleed the system. Neat! Pics:




Here is the outside of the case, where the tubing goes to the radiator:



Here is the order:

Swiftech bracket + fan vibration dampener + 35mm fan + vibration dampener + shroud + PA160 (cross flow) set-up. It's extending the case a bit, but it's not visible and I have plenty of space in the back of the case. Build and attachment is sturdy and reliable. No problems there. Fan is dead silent. Slow RPM & 35mm depth helps a lot. Sometimes, I wonder if Thermochill PA120.2 will offer any cooling improvements, or is it just marginal ?! What do you think ?


Finally, here is the climate control system:



Of course, mCubed T-balancer XL + miniNG control units. They are taking care that temperatures are optimal and at the same time dynamically controlling the fans and DDC pump speed, according to the temp probes (including the coolant probe). Generally, they are monitoring the coolant temperature, DDC pump rpm/flow rate and environment temperatures. MiniNG is capable to handle up to 20W per channel, and that is just enough for the new 18W DDC version. Also, sensor hub is capable to power off the system in case of the pump failure/low water flow or critical temperatures. Clever huh

Sorry for the heavy thread, but sometimes visual presentation is delivering the message in probably most direct way Anyhow, if you have any comments about the system or if you think that some improvements are necessary, your feedback is much appreciated.


*** UPDATE 07/10/06 - new pics***

Lights off - final look with side panel, multiple angels:




As requested, with bright ambient light:




Back/side of the PA160, side of the case and water temp probe on the Y-line, just before the PA160 inlet:




Few comments about my side panel. Center (window) of the panel is detachable and replaceable with single aluminium panel (so that you can have all-aluminium side panel version). I hacked that detachable part a bit, so that I have a soundproof panel version and I can now easily replace the window (in case that it's not needed or if more silence is prefered) with this:



It's coated with AcoustiPack foam blocks (with the anechoic surface)


Daylight, camera flash on. Laing DDC-1 plus & plexi top & plexi res:



Notice the red impeller of the new 18W DDC-1 plus. Also, you may notice the AcoustiPack foam blocks just beneath the pump itself. They are absorbing the pump noise, additionally. Of course, there is just enough clearance so that pump can cool itself properly.


Daylight, case pictures (front):

[Magnj]

Nicely done!

[NickS]

Wow very nice. That temp monitoring thing is very neat too. Well done

[HaxR3]

Neat, i think the some suble & unique glow of the PC ICE beats teh Hydrx any day

Regarding the PA120.2 yes, the perfomance diff will probably be like 2-5*C

[GrimReaper]

what is that? looks like something stolen one of the borg ships

nicely done mate looks really cool

[Garrett]

You introduced the Alphacool plexi res... you only used a T-line and fillport before that?
And the flow is less because you use PC-Ice uv blue stuff instead of HydrX, is that what you're saying?
I like the uv stuff better, as long as it DOES NOT cloud your tubing... try throwing in too much Zerex/Waterwetter with Tygon tubing and you'll see what I mean

[el rolio]

hey, lovey pics and post. haha you get points for a well laid out POST. anyway the 120.2 shouldnt be too much of a difference over hte 160.

i'd actualy like ot leanr more about how you use the t-balancer thing or whatever to control the fans and such relative to temps/load etc etc

[DVL73]

Wow very nice. That temp monitoring thing is very neat too. Well done

Thx

T-balancer + miniNG is simply not comparable with anything else I tried (and waste my money on). In my book, finest climate control system for you PC and it is long term solution (purchase) as I doubt that I will ever need to upgrade to something else. With this, you may dynamically control your pump (20W per channel), your radiator fan, your case fan and your PSU fans and at the same time monitor your water temps and pump rpm/flow rate, It's modular and additional extensions are available and that includes the automatic shutdown in case of system failure (for example pump fault or low coolant flow rate). It's "hands free" operation, hardware controlled dynamically & automatically according to the water & environment temperatures of your PC. Very nice purchase, may I say essential, for any WC set-up. It does come with a price and maybe edging towards the exotic purchase, but I think it's worth it.

I'm using:

T-Balancer classic
+
MiniNG
+
Sensorbus
+
Attenuators for the fans

Also, new version of T-balancer: BugNG is now available for sale. Essentially, it's combination of MiniNG + T-balancer classic.

[stormshadow]

i wonder why i can't see pics... : (

[eXa]

i can, it looks pretty, hydrx didnt look that good.

[DVL73]

i wonder why i can't see pics... : (

Are you using firewall of any type ? My HTTP file server is running on non-standard HTTP port "10973". Try to enable outbound access to this port (that is access from your PC to the Internet).

[NickS]

i wonder why i can't see pics... : (

Your internet fails

[DVL73]

Few days ago, I upgraded to X1900XTX + EK (as shown in the pics). Here are the temps:



This graph represent the 3DMARK06 benchmark session, probably most stressful session the card may have. That pause (lower temps) you see in the middle of the graph is during the 3DMARK06 CPU stress tests (GPU is not used).

I guess it's just about OK especially because radiator fan is really not even pushed to the 25% - 30% and pump is at around 70%. Also, X1900XTX AS ceramique thermal paste have to settle down a bit ... so let's 7-10 days until it's working in full swing. At the end, I'm still 4*C - 5*C above the previous temps, because of the new coolant and reservoir placement (pump is working best when there is direct inlet, no res in between) - still have to investigate and confirm this. So, let's say that in warmish room ... it would be around 43*C - 45*C ideally if I didn't change my previous set-up. Only thing which could bring (possibly) another 3*C - 4*C off is Thermochill PA120.2 (2xfan) radiator. However, not really keen to upgrade because of the few degress less. I'm perfectly happy now, especially because the system is almost noise free.

In that sense, I may safely conclude that EK waterblock is cooling the X1900XTX on the almost same level as my old 7800GTX and that is very good - as X1900 is generating really plenty of heat.

I still didn't overclock the card. I will let the card burn-in and settle on the stock speed and then I will try to experiment with the clocks. This is my usual practice - as I don't like to torture any hardware from the flash start.

Here is the X2 3800 @ 2.6/1.5V CPU stress session:



I was running two instances of Prime95 (for both cores) for about 15min.

[eXa]

Your internet fails

maybe he should update to newest version?

[DVL73]

You introduced the Alphacool plexi res... you only used a T-line and fillport before that?

I've sold my old DDC and upgraded to DDC-1plus + plexi top + plexi res + PrimoChill PC-ICE. Everything else in the same ... and yes ... before I used just T-line. I have to say that fill & bleed with Alphacool PlexiRes is a real joy ... personally tried and it's very convenient, even for novice users. Because the res is attached directly to the inlet of the pump, you just fill the res -> start the pump for a few seconds until it suck everything - > fill again and repeat such cycle 2-3 times and off you go. Your system is ready. If you can't access the res directly (if it's in the bay), just use one spare tubing piece and place one side in the res and other side outside of the case with the funnel attached.

There is generally thinking that such plexi res placement (as in my case) is hurting the flow rate (and wc loop performance) ... but honestly I have yet to see that in numbers and aesthetically it's my favourite set-up now. I'm not going back now

And the flow is less because you use PC-Ice uv blue stuff instead of HydrX, is that what you're saying?

Yes, and that is puzzling me a lot. Here is the current flow rate with PC-ICE:



Before, with HydrX (just different coolant) was 8.4 l/min - 8.6 l/min. It looks like PC-ICE is more "dense", if that is the right term. I can even notice in the plexires less turbulence then before. Actually, you may notice in the green plexires version (from the above pictures) that there is evidently more turbulance.

I like the uv stuff better, as long as it DOES NOT cloud your tubing... try throwing in too much Zerex/Waterwetter with Tygon tubing and you'll see what I mean

I had clouding with HydrX + Tygon also. I replaced all the tubing couple of days ago, with the brand new one, after approx 1 year of usage and before filling the system with PC-ICE.

[virtualrain]

In my backyard test using a couple of large buckets and a simple inlet/outlet tube, I found the following flow rates:

Stock Alphacool Top (no-res): 12.5 lpm
Stock Alphacool Top (with res): 11.3 lpm

Modded Alphacool Top (9.5mm inlet) (no-res): 13 lpm
Modded Alphacool Top (9.5mm inlet) (with res): 12.5 lpm

Hence, in terms of flow, it seems that modding the top (boring out the top inlet) largely makes up for the loss of flow from using the res. If you haven't tried the mod, you may want to consider it.

Here's a link to info on the mod (Note, I only modded to 9.5mm = 3/8"):

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=111796

Here's some info that shows more scientific test results of the impact of the res. Note that the DDC Ultra with res is still more potent than a D5.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=111796

[DVL73]

Here is the miniNG set-up screen, for controlling the DDC + radiator fan:



DDC temperature readings are from the water (coolant) temp probe and RADIATOR from the CPU temp probe. As you may see, pump is starting @ 70% (8.4V) and not kicking in almost full speed until the coolant is really hot. One thing I noticed with the new 18W DDC-1plus as that I have to change the previous curve a bit, as pump is rather noisy (resonating) @ 60%. Another thing is that now I have the new rubber (antivibration) mounts for the pump (as you may see in the pictures above) ... so there is MUCH less noise even when it's running @ 100%. Proper pump mount is really a godsend. I don't find the new DDC much more noisy too. It's great pump in every aspect. As shown, radiator fan is also nicely silenced and dynamically speeding up over 30% only if the CPU/GPU temps are rising.

[NickS]

maybe he should update to newest version?

I agree. Internet v1.1 r0x0rs my b0x0rs.

[septim]

cleanly done.

[[XC] DragonOrta]

If you want a nice blue w/o using Primo-chill, pick up some Pentosin from Petra's. It won't be UV-reactive, but it looks oh so fine.

[Muunsyr]

How did you mount the T-Bal vertically? I have one and that is the orientation that I want to use (and similar placement). Very nice setup!

[Garrett]

I've sold my old DDC and upgraded to DDC-1plus + plexi top + plexi res + PrimoChill PC-ICE. Everything else in the same ... and yes ... before I used just T-line. I have to say that fill & bleed with Alphacool PlexiRes is a real joy ... personally tried and it's very convenient, even for novice users. Because the res is attached directly to the inlet of the pump, you just fill the res -> start the pump for a few seconds until it suck everything - > fill again and repeat such cycle 2-3 times and off you go. Your system is ready. If you can't access the res directly (if it's in the bay), just use one spare tubing piece and place one side in the res and other side outside of the case with the funnel attached.

There is generally thinking that such plexi res placement (as in my case) is hurting the flow rate (and wc loop performance) ... but honestly I have yet to see that in numbers and aesthetically it's my favourite set-up now. I'm not going back now

Yes, and that is puzzling me a lot. Here is the current flow rate with PC-ICE:



Before, with HydrX (just different coolant) was 8.4 l/min - 8.6 l/min. It looks like PC-ICE is more "dense", if that is the right term. I can even notice in the plexires less turbulence then before. Actually, you may notice in the green plexires version (from the above pictures) that there is evidently more turbulance.

I had clouding with HydrX + Tygon also. I replaced all the tubing couple of days ago, with the brand new one, after approx 1 year of usage and before filling the system with PC-ICE.

I used HydrX too... same thing happened, now it's only deionized water for me... after all I only use plexi, delrin and copper so no corrosion worries.

I know what you mean by "dense", you mean the liquid is thicker, thus it has a higher viscosity, that may be true but hey... at least it looks better, just hope this doesn't cloud your Tygon either

[AFK Matrix]

Thats a nice setup DVL73.

I too am going to be using a Tbalancer to control the 5 fans I am going to have in my system. I have enough Attenuators for 8 fans in all so I was thinking of putting the 3 pin cable that the DCC has on the tbalancer. Is that all I have to do to link the DCC to the Tbalancer, do I need special software?

Also where and how have you fitted the water probe? I do love the Tbalancer and yes its expensive but well worth it (mind you I did get all my kit second hand for £40 )

I am actually thinking of getting some UV reactive Acrylic in Blue to cut a new top to the Tbalancer to give it a bit of bling.

[DVL73]

I too am going to be using a Tbalancer to control the 5 fans I am going to have in my system. I have enough Attenuators for 8 fans in all

That's plenty of fans and attenuators Anyhow, yes, attenuators are great fun. I managed to cure even most problematic fans, and that includes the vibrations and whine. Another plus is that you can attach 2 fans to single attenuator and control them in parallel with t-balancer (ideally for case or PSU fans).

so I was thinking of putting the 3 pin cable that the DCC has on the tbalancer. Is that all I have to do to link the DCC to the Tbalancer, do I need special software?

T-balancer classic is unable to control the DDC or any other pump. It's PWM device (which is OK for fans) but it's not compatible with the devices who require pure analog power and you may damage your pump too! You would need MiniNG extension (two 20W analog power channels with temp sensors). My radiator fan & pump is controlled by MiniNG (as shown in the pictures above). Actually, I dedicated MiniNG for the WC sector

Other way around is that you use the mCubed T Balancer BigNG (you have link above). It's new t-balancer version, which has 4 channels of combined 20W analog/ 40W PWM power. Just make sure that you switch either MiniNG or BigNG and channel where the pump is connected to "analog mode".

Also, if you would like to have emergency shutdown, pump rpm/flow meter, water temp probe and additional analog sensors, you need SensorBus:

Also where and how have you fitted the water probe?

I will make some pics tonight, to show you visually. It's placed on t-line outside of the case, before the radiator inlet. You will need t-piece or y-piece with the t-balancer temp probe:

I do love the Tbalancer and yes its expensive but well worth it (mind you I did get all my kit second hand for £40 )

As I see that you are in the UK, not sure if you aware that KustomPCs is stocking complete m-cubed range:

http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/...ers.html#a3726

Very nice people & company. Never had problems with them. They also have excellent fans range and generally exotic hardware, which is always a good thing

PS ... new t-balancer (BigNG for example) is around £40 ... that second hand price you got is rather "expensive" if no extensions are included.

I am actually thinking of getting some UV reactive Acrylic in Blue to cut a new top to the Tbalancer to give it a bit of bling.

Yeah, I had similar idea ... but UV blue top was out of stock

[AFK Matrix]

Thanks for the info DVL73, think i maybe contacting you if i have any problems with setting the tbalancer up

Basically for the £40 I spent I got the following:

1x external USB cable
1x internal USB cable
1x Control unit (UV orange plastic)
1x analogue sensor hub
4x thin foil temperature sensors
7x fan -> fan signal cables
Mounting material
CD With software
4x Attenuators (allows 2 fans to connect to each fan port, so max of 8 fans)
He also threw in a Water Probe.

I added all that lot up on the Kustom Pcs website and it came to £90 excl delivery thus I was more than happy to pay the £40 inc del

In your opinion is it really necessary to have the MiniNG, and I assume I could control 3 fans with it using the atenuators?