The GT300/Fermi Thread

[Manicdan]

But if Nvidia does that and AMD lowers 5800/5900 price points, Fermi fill indeed be a (huge) flop.

i think everyone is expecting a massive price drop. there is zero reason to keep the prices this high.

[LordEC911]

i think everyone is expecting a massive price drop. there is zero reason to keep the prices this high.

Again, it depends on which way Nvidia goes...
If they price it above 5970 or right at 5970, which they will most likely need to do, I don't expect a big price drop.

Now if they price it according to performance, then we might see AMD do a $50-100 price drop to put the squeeze on Nvidia.

I really don't see Nvidia pricing GF100 agressively until summer.

[neliz]

i think everyone is expecting a massive price drop. there is zero reason to keep the prices this high.

We had one.. just ONE generation where prices were a bit lower than anything before (or after) and people are complaining everything is too expensive

Why is everyone adamant that Fermi would lower MSRP's and not reinstate the $700-$800 high end?

NVidia has ZERO incentive to start a price war. I think the recent introduction of gt21x should be a pretty clear hint for some people here. If it is 25% faster, it sure as well will be priced more than 25% higher. RV770 just has too many people spoiled these days.

[Leeghoofd]

a lot will depend on the real performance of Fermi... with the 5830 ATI will wipe out GTX 260/275 and even 285 cards (so hopefully something will happen with the prices with just the release of that ATI midrange card)

[Manicdan]

if they release the 360 at 400-500$ they might sell off a few units at launch to the dedicated fans who have been waiting, and ati can drop their top end 20% to be a very obvious price/perf winner and attempt to take more market share. so after the nvidia launch effect has faded, they do their price drop to what is reasonable to sell such cards at. and ati will again do a price drop to maintain a slight price/perf advantage, but would probably try to keep higher margins.

i dont expect to see a 200$ 5850 the day a 360 is released, but i bet it will be within 3-4 months of its release. -someone feel free to hold me to that bed, id like to know how close i was

[Blacky]

I think the GT200 chapter is going to repeat once again... first GT200's were really hot and tend to fail because of it, until nvidia finally managed to get GT200 arch working on 55nm, I think the same is going to happen with fermi fail at start and success after die shrink refresh...and history is going to repeat over and over if they keep designing huge chips. Not to mention prices as start.

[annihilat0r]

if they release the 360 at 400-500$ they might sell off a few units at launch to the dedicated fans who have been waiting, and ati can drop their top end 20% to be a very obvious price/perf winner and attempt to take more market share. so after the nvidia launch effect has faded, they do their price drop to what is reasonable to sell such cards at. and ati will again do a price drop to maintain a slight price/perf advantage, but would probably try to keep higher margins.

i dont expect to see a 200$ 5850 the day a 360 is released, but i bet it will be within 3-4 months of its release. -someone feel free to hold me to that bed, id like to know how close i was

its gonna be fail if 360 is 400-500$. Everything indicates to a 5870-level (or less) performance for 360. It should be $400 max - and then AMD looks like it can lower the prices of 5870

[neliz]

I wonder why they're talking about superior Geometry and tessellation.. almost as if they're hiding something...

[Lightman]

I wonder why they're talking about superior Geometry and tessellation.. almost as if they're hiding something...

So very fast geometry (useful for CAD/modeling), but not so amazing for everything else?

I'm curious how nVidia overcome 1tri/clock barrier all GPU's seemed to have till this day ...

[LordEC911]

Awww... he didn't share his other fun info here.
Launch products have less TMUs than G200's 80TMUs.

Edit- Took out his name, don't know if he wanted to post that here.

[Lokinhow]

I think the GT200 chapter is going to repeat once again... first GT200's were really hot and tend to fail because of it, until nvidia finally managed to get GT200 arch working on 55nm, I think the same is going to happen with fermi fail at start and success after die shrink refresh...and history is going to repeat over and over if they keep designing huge chips. Not to mention prices as start.

but when Nvidia released GT200, 55nm was already ready for a long time.
When they shrinked to 55nm, ATI didn't did anything, because it was already the smallest node, there was no improvement on the red side.

That is not the case, we don't have 28nm ready already. When Nvidia moves to 28nm, ATI will make a die shrink too, so if it is like GT200, things will go really bad for Nvidia, because ATI will make a improvement too.

[Taskforce]

Are you kidding me, if Nvidia dear to release a mid-range card for more than 300 bucks after letting me wait all this time it's straight to the bay i gone to find a new card.
The last card i bought brand new at lunch was a XFX GTX260 Black for $299, they'd be awfully fresh to pass that price margin.

[neliz]

Edit- Took out his name, don't know if he wanted to post that here.

google neliz GF100 or neliz Fermi

[zerazax]

Are you kidding me, if Nvidia dear to release a mid-range card for more than 300 bucks after letting me wait all this time it's straight to the bay i gone to find a new card.
The last card i bought brand new at lunch was a XFX GTX260 Black for $299, they'd be awfully fresh to pass that price margin.

Be careful... expecting what isnt the norm?

That ATI priced RV770 that low was a fluke really. Yeah there was the mini G92 vs. RV670 price war, but the truth of the matter is, RV770 came in at an MSRP way below price, forcing Nvidia to cut prices. Had ATI known that GT200 was not going to be all that fast, you bet ATI would have debuted the 4870 and 4850 at $100 more...

[LordEC911]

google neliz GF100 or neliz Fermi

Yeah, only 3250 results... haha.

[saaya]

NVidia has ZERO incentive to start a price war.

especially since they cant exactly flood the market with fermi parts
so yeah, why should they start a price war for a product that 1. costs them shtload to make, and 2. demand will be notably higher than supply for a couple of weeks if not months.

I think the recent introduction of gt21x should be a pretty clear hint for some people here. If it is 25% faster, it sure as well will be priced more than 25% higher. RV770 just has too many people spoiled these days.

lol what? gt21x is 25% faster than what? theres a reason its called gts240, it IS slower than a g92, notably... its more like a gts230 or 235 at best actually...

Launch products have less TMUs than G200's 80TMUs.

huh? really? did they beef up their tmus then? they used to have plenty of not very efficient tmus until now, maybe they went for less, more efficient units now?

but when Nvidia released GT200, 55nm was already ready for a long time.
When they shrinked to 55nm, ATI didn't did anything, because it was already the smallest node, there was no improvement on the red side.

That is not the case, we don't have 28nm ready already. When Nvidia moves to 28nm, ATI will make a die shrink too, so if it is like GT200, things will go really bad for Nvidia, because ATI will make a improvement too.

yeah... well the funny part is that by now, 40nm SHOULD have been ready for a long time and mature as well

[Blacky]

but when Nvidia released GT200, 55nm was already ready for a long time.
When they shrinked to 55nm, ATI didn't did anything, because it was already the smallest node, there was no improvement on the red side.

That is not the case, we don't have 28nm ready already. When Nvidia moves to 28nm, ATI will make a die shrink too, so if it is like GT200, things will go really bad for Nvidia, because ATI will make a improvement too.

well yea but the difference is that ATi is already working on 28nm, while nvidia is not, they barely managed to get GF100 to 40nm (and still having issues), so I don't think bringing it to 28nm wouldn't be an easy task either...and by recent history ATi always gets die shrink faster

[saaya]

well yea but the difference is that ATi is already working on 28nm, while nvidia is not, they barely managed to get GF100 to 40nm (and still having issues), so I don't think bringing it to 28nm wouldn't be an easy task either...and by recent history ATi always gets die shrink faster

they are not? what makes you think that?
do you remember how jensen told tsmc to hurry up with 28nm?
and after tsmc faced problems with 28nm, jensen mentioned how they might work with GF instead, who are agressively ramping up 28nm...

nvidia knows they need 28nm... they could in theory completely screw up 40nm and not sell any 40nm fermi parts... it would hurt them... a lot... but they could survive that without too serious problems... 28nm is where it gets serious... if they cant get 28nm working right, THEN nvidia might bleed so bad it will take a while for them to recover, if ever...

[neliz]

lol what? gt21x is 25% faster than what? theres a reason its called gts240, it IS slower than a g92, notably... its more like a gts230 or 235 at best actually...

What I meant was, take a look at the GT215 introduction, (and RV840) a higher price point for less performance. 40nm right now is expensive. 40nm will be expensive in 2-3 months. I just want people here to realize there won't be a price war starting because nvidia launches tow high-end parts.

so 40nm=expensive.
if GF100=25% faster than RV870, expect it's launch price somewhere around 40-50% higher.

LorcED911, on a related note:Random Hungarian Forum

Neliz was allegedly Fermis PR party

These intertubes things are amazing. I can sleep and attend secret conferences at the same time! Unless Google thinks that it translates to me actually being on the good side of the FUDwar.

[trinibwoy]

There's a FUDwar underway? So far I only see shots fired from one side, it's more like FUDgenocide

[neliz]

There's a FUDwar underway? So far I only see shots fired from one side, it's more like FUDgenocide

Hey 512 Cuda Cores, 128 TMU's! This puppy will be (we expect) the fastest graphics card on the planet!

[trinibwoy]

Card specs count as FUD now? Interesting.... I thought FUD was more akin to running around bad mouthing the competition's stuff constantly.

[Teemax]

Update from Fud:
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17241/1/

GTS 360M (mobile) released, and it's another rename game from NVIDIA. Fermi might still come to the mobile world, but likely only at the extreme high end if at all.

[neliz]

Card specs count as FUD now? Interesting.... I thought FUD was more akin to running around bad mouthing the competition's stuff constantly.

Well... it IS FUD if you can't keep your promise.. same like announcing a Q1 release and everyone assuming it's Q1 availability...

So far, most of the things I've written have been backed by (uncheckable) facts. When nv says they'll launch in February, I write that.. when they announce their intent to launch in March, I write March. Now I can safely say my dual-fermi "a few weeks after GF100" was way too optimistic, just like the March launch, April availability.

[trinibwoy]

Perhaps, but you know it's different on the outside looking in. One man's facts are another man's FUD