Lapping the 2.4C IHS

[dioSRL]

what time did u use that C? It was faulty for sure.. very strange.

[Slickthellama]

what do you mean by "what time"? Thanks.

[dioSRL]

oh sorry for how long

[Slickthellama]

no problem, im not here to argue symantics. But i was confused . I used it for about a month. It just died one day. Everything at stock. The weird thing is, get this, one day, my AOpen AX4SPE refuses to boot. OK so I figure, dead mobo. I replace it with a 4PCA3+. Refuses to boot. So I try some new RAM and it boots. But get this. In my BRAND NEW 4PCA3+ it will not even POST when the RAM is in dual channel mode. So I get into BIOS on single channel. Temps are 54C. At stock everything. Im like... OK.............................................. So i shut it off. Remount and go in again. 53C........ so im like WTF? So then I figure, oh it must be a faulty mobo sensor. So I put my external temp monitor on the CPU. Nope it reads 55C. And I know it is accurate. So im totally stumped. It has to be a dead CPU. BTW this is with stock cooler. And I was able to get into windows but the temps were 89C then it immediatly locked up. The board isnt overvolting either because I checked the volts and they were at 1.488Vcore 2.5V ram.

[Liquid3D]

I agree it does depend on the situation. My 2.4C was OEM, so after 90-days it didn't matter. My 2.8C is retail, so I haven't lapped it yet. My 3.0C is lapped, and OEM, since I've removed the IHS from my 2.4C, and am now removing the IHS from my 3.0C. Water-cooling blocks have minimal, and infinately malleable clamp-down pressure therefore, it's safer to do these things, because you don't have worry about a pound of copper bolted to it.

Lapping is beneficial, depending how you do it. This is why I keep pushing the EasypcKits lapping kits on you guys. I don't own stock in the company, but until I used their Premium Lapping Kit, and did it correctly, all I got were 2C to 4C drops. I'm willing to bet SPQQKY (with all due respect my friend) Either didn't use a complete flat surface like a piece of glass, or use 400-grit all the way down to .10-micron paper. Perhaps he didn't continually clean the surface with 70% isopropyl alcohol (70% because then it's like wet-lapping) and continually clean (by tapping it pff) the sand paper. Also one move the heatsink/CPI in small figure eights or circles reversing directions. And alwsys allow the sand-paper to do the work. I f you press down with too much papaer , you may create an uneven sureface. I'm wiiling to bet that's what's happining in many cases, not enough lapping, and most P4 IHS surfaces I've lapped were uneven before I started.

It may sound complicated, it's not. It only takes about an hour to lap both surfaces correctly. Then you will see 6C to 8C drops. BUT you must use a high quality paste like AS5 once you see how thick it is, you'll understand.

Also you can practice "Tinting" rubbing a grain sized amount into the heatsink and wiping almost all away until it literally leaves a stain. Then place a small (tiny) drop of paste on the CPU center (not enough is actually better then too much) and simply tighten down the heatsink.

I'm doing an entire article on this step by step, removing the 3.0C IHS in the process, and cmparing temps. It'll be done next week. I have three reviews to do in 48 hours before that. This picture below is what your surface would look like when done, and I put the exact amount of paste to show that as well (the camera flash reflected the silver in it, it's the dark, thick, AS5);

[nailbomb]

nailbomb, where'd you get the P4 retail heatsink for 5 bucks

Refurb/Heatsink/Intel Section. They are now out of stock thou, but just keep checking. I don't think they ever last long.

[nailbomb]

Liquid,

If I'm allready close to a mirror finish on my IHS, do I need to restart with 400? I might order a kit here shortly. It seems flat to me because when I draw an X on it with a marker, it gets sanded off equally, with no obvious high/low spots.

I"m using 1/4 inch plexi to sand on.

[Liquid3D]

NO never go back, you need a finer grit then the one you left off wioth, otherwise you'll actually lap it back to being rough.

I just removed the IHS from my 3.0C, and am doing a write-up on comparing before and after;

[nailbomb]

Sweet, you got it off.

If you wanna clean the goop off easily, I can't recommend the Akasa TIM-Clean enough. It's amazing. Plus it won't eat your liver for lunch :p

[Slickthellama]

didnt you guys hear what fugger said? He said that the P4s actually are better cooled with the IHS than without. But I guess we will find out wont we.

[jmke]

Originally posted by Liquid3D
I just removed the IHS from my 3.0C, and am doing a write-up on comparing before and after;

that camera's MACRO mode is awesome

[Liquid3D]

yes it's the Fuli FinePix 210, I'm going to do a review on it as well. You won't belive it, a very cool friend of mine sent it to me to enhance my attchements, and bring a real visual quality to my reviews. He's most definately an Uberman! The world is a better place because of people like him (hehe). I'm still learning the Macro mode, which allows you to foucs on a non-reflective object, then scan back over to the original, but once focus is locked, you have to be careful not move it.

[Liquid3D]

Oh by the by, here's a pic for those asking exactly how much, and how to apply AS5 or any thermal paste. The silver is reflecting in the flash, so it's looks like Ceramique, but it's AS5. You might use less then indicated below, the macro mode is sort of deceptive. It looks much larger then it is, because it's reflecting in the lapped surface. Once you do this, simply mount that baby, and allow the paste to be compressed between the two surfaces, thus minimizing any chance of air incorperation.

[st0nedpenguin]

If anyone out there is doubting this application method by the way, don't.

I got a drop of about 3c just by applying my Ceramique properly, and have managed to shave another 3c off that just by experimenting with the amount applied, so it's clearly worth trying.

Keith, if you don't mind me asking, do you know how much that camera costs, I just need a ballpark figure, I'm going to be in the market for a Digicam myself soon, and that looks like a beaut.

Currency conversion isn't much of a concern, thanks to all our taxes and VAT, it works out at pretty much £1 = $1 anyway.

[Liquid3D]

Sure it's $200 or I beleive (how do I do the lb icon?). And here's it's zoom capabilities. It's an unbelievable camera! (This is the view out my window, which is open) from the snow you can now see why my water-cooling temps drop so low. The H20 hardware (reservoir sitting in front of push/pull radiator fans) sit on the ground below this window... The Pink building in the foreground is 300 meters away, the first row of houses, across the first section of Bay are about 2 Kilometers away, and the houses across the entire Bay are about 12 kilometers away! The sun is rising, reflecting off the Yankee-white paint, so it's seems blurry, it's not (by the way this is lowest setting 640 x 480, the pictures at 2048 x 1536 are amazing!).

[PTK]

$200.

DAMN... gotta try to look for one here in Europe.

Pe-Te

[st0nedpenguin]

My sentiments exactly, cheers Keith, you just cemented my camera choice for me, I didn't think I could afford to spend over £200 for a digican I might not use too often, looks like I won't heve to.

[PTK]

So its this one ?

http://www.geizhals.at/eu/a56420.html

175€ in Germany. Gotta see what that would be delivered here.

Delivery ~30e with UPS to finland.. ~18e to GB.

PTK

[nailbomb]

Keith my man,

I think you were right about my P4PE, and the mounting pressure not being adequate.

I just got a DFI board, slapped in the MCX478V, and it does WAY better in the DFI board. For instance I can see a diff in temps between 7v and 12v on the Tornado now. So, I think what I should do is get another retention bracket for the P4PE, and see if I get improvements. The P4PE was running my 1.8a at 2400 mhz, and the DFI is a 2.8C. I get lower load/idle temps on the DFI with the Swiftech, than I
did with the P4PE/1.8a (which ran stock voltage)

Thoughts? It would appear I get better mounting pressure on the new boards retention bracket.

[Liquid3D]

Originally posted by SPQQKY
After lapping my IHC and my SLK-947U and switching from OCZ Ultra thermal compound to Geil's copper and silver mixture, I got zero difference in temperatures. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

This is somethjing I'm about to write on but I have so many things to write, I'm sitting here doing nothing. I'm so confused I don't where to sart? I have to find a new girlfirend just to help me get organized.

Anyhoo....I had an interesting talk with Nevin (Arctic Silver) and he made some very interesting points about lapping. Although in your circumstance it might not seem applicable, I beleive it may be.

Albeit a P4's IHS, or a Swiftech heatsink base, there's usually either a slight concave, or convex curvature in one or both surfaces. What happens is, when people lap, they might eliminate a convex surface where the protrusion made better contact with the heatsink surface. Lets say your heatsink base is slightly concave, and the CPU was slightly convex. You lap both surfaces. Because, your measuring your sucess by laying the heatsink, or CPU on a flat surface, the concave's deepest point may still exist. because the edges of the indentation will support it over the flat surface you wouldn't know. Ergo, by lapping the convex surface, you've now eliminated the point which protruded up from one surface, and made contact by fitting into the concave indentation.

Ergo the lapping of a single surface, albeit the IHS or heatsink, only gives you a 50% chance of improving contact. If the heatsink is convex, and the CPU concave there's a possibility that combination may fit together better then a poorly done lapping job on both surfaces.

Solution. Take a razor-blade and lay it over the surface of the CPU, then over the heatsink surface. The resulting discrepancy will enable you begin lapping with a much clearer picture of your goal, or at least upon which surface your going to have to lap down beyond the deepest part of the convex surface indent.

nailbomb (still love that username hehe) I'm not sure why but i don't rmemebr talking about mounting "pressure" being inadequate with the P4PE? Don't both those boards have mounting holes? That heatsink should be mounted through the board. I've yet to see a high-quality heatsink such as a Thermalright, or Swiftech which doesn't offer such hardware, and also recommends this as the preffered mounting method.

[Peen]

HMmmmm i took my IHS off about 6 months ago, seems to be running good since, but I wanna stick it back on just to see if my temps go up at all. What would be a good thing to stick it back on? im talking about the little black adhesive around it

[nailbomb]

I've yet to see a high-quality heatsink such as a Thermalright, or Swiftech which doesn't offer such hardware, and also recommends this as the preffered mounting method.

Man, this thread is so LONG now, but jeah I think we did talk about it pages ago.

The MCX478-V is designed to fit in the stock retention bracket with clips. There is no thru board mounting.

Now, I noticed that when I installed it on the DFI that it took more force to secure the clips, thus leading me to believe I'm getting better mounting pressure. With the 478 in my P4PE I would turn up the Tornado from 7v to full nuts, and not see any diff in temps, but on the DFI board I most certainly do, and its quite a lot actually like -5c.

So, I wonder if I got another rentention bracket for the P4PE, if I could get better mounting pressure.

[Liquid3D]

OK that's right sorry about that my friend. Now I remember what I thinking back then. How the Heck could Swifty build such a phenomenal heatsink which MUST weigh 600g, and not have offer through-board mounting? Anyhoo, my answer is yes, I think you should find a way to apply more tension. OR

You never took the IHS off that did you? I guess if the Swifty uses rentention bracket mounting you wouldn't have to worry about standoffs? Maybe that would be a better option then finding an ad hoc method of increasing pressure?

See what I'm saying? In that circumstance the lack of pressure would do well to mate with an Intel minus it's IHS. I'd go for that option. Can you show me a photo of the bottom of the swifty, or even better a close-up of it mounted on the board? Or would the plastic "cradle" Intel board-makers pin through the board obscure the portion of the photo? Anyway a photo similiar to this;

[nailbomb]

Keith, thanks

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCX478-V.asp

I think that will show you everything you want to see. Let me know if not.

I think I just need another retention bracket, because it seems like the bracket in my DFI gives increased mounting pressure, and way better temps, and that's on a proc that dissapates more heat to boot, ie the 2.8c.

[st0nedpenguin]

Could it not just be that your DFI gives different temp readings to your other board?