3700 San Diego vs. 3200 Venice: Round 2!

**ben805** · 05-12-2005, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Geforce4ti4200

From what ive seen, I wont be getting a Diego anytime soon, if ever. 3dmark is my fav benchmark and you showed me the Venice outperforms the Diego there. I might gain a bit in games with a Diego but it arent worth the $200 difference. I think I may just stick with this 2.45GHz Venice for a very long time since there is nothing better except slightly higher clocks but I arent paying for a 3500+ or 3800+ Venice for another 300MHz more.

like somebody once suggested.....you need a defrag!! who know...maybe it would do the trick for you and make yours go zooom.

j/k.

I'm still playing with the Mushkin Redline XP4000......so far I'm LOVING it, quite a different experience to run these puppy at 255 @1.5-2-2-5 1T!!

**ben805** · 05-12-2005, 06:44 PM

Maybe this would make some people feel a bit better about the SD, here you go...

My brother's 3200 Venice can not pull this kind of stunt....

Originally Posted by ewitte

Its not going to be me because my TCCD does not like dropping below 2.5CAS. Someone with UTT or BH and excessive voltage needs to jump in

If it were possible I'd say 26-27s is within reason. BTW I do know someone that can get 1.5-2-2-5 @ 265x10. I really think there is some kind of BIOS/OS issue for those getting lower #'s with San Diego.

Eric

265 x11....I'm feeding the Redline sticks 3.7v, whether they like it or not

**Dumo** · 05-12-2005, 07:34 PM

Some Gskill LA can run 2-2-2-5@240 and 3.1V. That Mushkin and SD look good...

**s7e9h3n** · 05-12-2005, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by ben805

My brother's 3200 Venice can not pull this kind of stunt....

Nice :thumbsup: ...but what does the venice do with these sticks?

**s7e9h3n** · 05-12-2005, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dumo

Some Gskill LA can run 2-2-2-5@240 and 3.1V. That Mushkin and SD look good...

Do yours? I'm really itching to try out this pair of FF's

**ImportantAwareness89** · 05-12-2005, 10:52 PM

LoL I didn't mean don't overclock. I just meant for the purposes of benchmarking. To not overclock would be taking my life away....

Haha, well.. umm IMO Super Pi has weird results sometimes? You can get quite a bit of fluctuation. Run it a few times and use the best time I guess?

**ewitte** · 05-13-2005, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

BTW, I've run SPI with bh-5 @ ~270, but got nowhere near 26's @ 270x10.

Try 1.5 CAS along with lowering a few more timings

I get 29.922 @ 2.81 255x11 2.5-7-12-3-2-7-4-2-2-4-1T.

Eric

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 04:04 AM

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

Nice :thumbsup: ...but what does the venice do with these sticks?

that's the problem....SuperPI 1M crapped out on that Venice at 2.89Ghz, and it can NOT run anything higher than 2.89Ghz without BSOD every few seconds, can do a suicide screen shot with Cpuz at 2.90 that was it. That's why I said that Venice can not pull that kind of stunt like my SD....and I can do SuperPI 1M up to about 2.93Ghz with SD

**s7e9h3n** · 05-13-2005, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by ewitte

Try 1.5 CAS along with lowering a few more timings

I get 29.922 @ 2.81 255x11 2.5-7-12-3-2-7-4-2-2-4-1T.

Eric

Even at cl1.5, you're not gonna shave 3 seconds off your spi time. I'd be surprised if there was even a 2 second gain from 2.5 -> 1.5. I think the only person who may be able to approach 26's @ 2.8 is cpulloverclock. His spi times are the fastest per clock I've seen here. But even at that, I don't think anybody could pull it off - well maybe,.....with a dothan.

**s7e9h3n** · 05-13-2005, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by ben805

that's the problem....SuperPI 1M crapped out on that Venice at 2.89Ghz, and it can NOT run anything higher than 2.89Ghz without BSOD every few seconds, can do a suicide screen shot with Cpuz at 2.90 that was it. That's why I said that Venice can not pull that kind of stunt like my SD....and I can do SuperPI 1M up to about 2.93Ghz with SD

You can thank the San Diego stronger mem controller for that

**saaya** · 05-13-2005, 04:32 AM

nice ben, very nice esults! keep going!

thx a lot for sharing those results with us

.... indeed interesting... hmmm

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

You can thank the San Diego stronger mem controller for that

no doubt about that....right from the beginning at the other shootout thread I'd already mentioned that my SD needed less vcore to run at the same clock as my brother's Venice, heat load is much higher with the SD but it can tolerate higher heat much better than Venice and Winchester, so the headroom is there and the ceiling is higher....just needed the right tool (phase change) to get me there. And that's the reason why you won't see me returning or selling my SD then go out and grab me a Venice

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by saaya

nice ben, very nice esults! keep going!

thx a lot for sharing those results with us

.... indeed interesting... hmmm

thank you

I'll definitely play around with it over the weekend, the Mushkin still has more in it so I'll see how far I can go with it.

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

Even at cl1.5, you're not gonna shave 3 seconds off your spi time. I'd be surprised if there was even a 2 second gain from 2.5 -> 1.5. I think the only person who may be able to approach 26's @ 2.8 is cpulloverclock. His spi times are the fastest per clock I've seen here. But even at that, I don't think anybody could pull it off - well maybe,.....with a dothan.

I'll will try and see if I can do 26's @2.8....it's a different ball game now that I got the UTT/BH, still have lots of tweaking to do

I'll try to do 26's @2.8

**s7e9h3n** · 05-13-2005, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by ben805

no doubt about that....right from the beginning at the other shootout thread I'd already mentioned that my SD needed less vcore to run at the same clock as my brother's Venice, so the headroom is there and the ceiling is higher....

That's not necessarily true.

What does your sd top out at and @ what vcore? how about the venice?

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

That's not necessarily true.

What does your sd top out at and @ what vcore? how about the venice?

the SD can superPI 1M all the way up to about 2.93 @1.71v, Venice can only manage SuperPI 1M at 2.89 regardless what vcore being use.

**s7e9h3n** · 05-13-2005, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by ben805

the SD can superPI 1M all the way up to about 2.93 @1.71v, Venice can only manage SuperPI 1M at 2.89 regardless what vcore being use.

And you stopped pushing the vcore on the sd because of heat? What happens when you feed the venice the same vcores as the sd in terms of temps?

**Epsilon** · 05-13-2005, 05:30 AM

Maybe a weird question but since the temperature is the only thing that's different:

Did you turn off the thermalthrottling ?

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

And you stopped pushing the vcore on the sd because of heat?

That is correct.

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

What happens when you feed the venice the same vcores as the sd in terms of temps?

The Venice ran cooler at the same vcore as SD at @1.71v, but whenever the Venice gets up to around 55'C then BSOD kicked in, this Venice has the same heat tolerance as the Winchester I had. On the other hand the SD NEVER BSOD even at 70'C when I ran the Toast to test the maximum heat load, but at 70'C I'd chicken out and shutdown the system.

Maximum heat load without BSOD:
San Diego: 70'C ~ ??
Venice: <55'C

Maximum overclocked speed on air without BSOD:
San Diego: 2.93Ghz @1.71v
Venice: 2.89Ghz @1.71

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by Epsilon

Maybe a weird question but since the temperature is the only thing that's different:

Did you turn off the thermalthrottling ?

Always have it off.

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 05:50 AM

Now get this, it's going to get even more complicated....the Venice can do SuperPI 32M at 318 x9 @1.71v, the San Diego can't. But the Venice ran out of steam and called it quit altogether and threw in the white towel at >2.89Ghz, higher vcore doesn't help. While in the mean time....the San Diego kept going like the Energizer Bunny up to about 2.93Ghz @1.71v.

And this, is the reason why it made me believe that my SD should have a higher ceiling.

**Da[]San** · 05-13-2005, 06:32 AM

Some great work here ben805 ignore the thread trashing

**s7e9h3n** · 05-13-2005, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by ben805

Now get this, it's going to get even more complicated....the Venice can do SuperPI 32M at 318 x9 @1.71v, the San Diego can't. But the Venice called it quit altogether and threw in the white towel at >2.89Ghz, higher vcore doesn't help. While in the mean time....the San Diego kept going like the Energizer Bunny up to about 2.93Ghz @1.71v.

Ok, it's obvious what's happening on the 32m runs. Basically, the sd is getting too hot to finish the run, but the venice stays cool enough to do so. TBH with yah, I don't think your San Diego is particularly better than your Venice. All things considered, there isn't much difference between a cpu which can do 2.89 @ 1.71 and one that can do 2.93 @ 1.71. The only reason the SD is still running is because of it's higher tdp rating:

Seems to me these cpu's weren't binned for speed, rather by strength of mem controller and ability to dissipate more current (in other words, the ability to run hotter)

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 06:47 AM

oh sh*t!! max temperature for both of them are only 65'C but I had my SD up to 70'C couple times for like 2~3 min, hope I didn't damaged anything

I thought my SD has max temp of 75'C

**s7e9h3n** · 05-13-2005, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by ben805

oh sh*t!! max temperature for both of them are only 65'C but I had my SD up to 70'C couple times for like 2~3 min, hope I didn't damaged anything

I thought my SD has max temp of 75'C

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's max case temp

**PetNorth** · 05-13-2005, 07:14 AM

You aren't wrong, it's correct

**~~terrace215~~** · 05-13-2005, 07:15 AM

yes, but case as in "die case", a.k.a the integrated heat spreader.

**s7e9h3n** · 05-13-2005, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by terrace215

yes, but case as in "die case", a.k.a the integrated heat spreader.

hehehe, I should have known that.....and Ben, I pull my hair out over the temps that your mobo reports to you. Also, more often it's voltage that kills a cpu rather than temp.

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 07:21 AM

OK, then my SD was pretty close to the max then

**PetNorth** · 05-13-2005, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by terrace215

yes, but case as in "die case", a.k.a the integrated heat spreader.

not "die", but max "safe" temp value I think.

**ewitte** · 05-13-2005, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by ben805

OK, then my SD was pretty close to the max then

Things do tend to slow down once you get to a certain limit where stability is borderline.

Eric

**s7e9h3n** · 05-13-2005, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by ewitte

Superpi tends to care more about latency. If I leave the memory timings at default I'd probably get about 31s at 2.8Ghz as well. With them tweaked its 29s. Thats 2.5-3-3-7-1T (10,12 and mostly 3's). It could easily be 27s or even 26s if I could pull 2-2-2-5-1T.

Eric

Ok, I was curious so I browsed through the Spi thread and this is the listing of 26sec and 27sec Spi1m runs:

18. Mauri Antero - 26.00 seconds - windows - P4 560 @ 5118 [/mbot]
[mbot] Mauri Antero26FX53 @ 3152
19. Sucka - 26.00 seconds - windows - FX55 @ 3185MHz
20. PetervanDamned - 26.00 seconds - windows - amd 4000 @ 3150 mhz
21. cpulloverclock - 26.00 seconds - windows - 3000 .09@3046.9MHz Epow 9NDA3 rev2.1
22. Kunaak - 26.00 seconds - windows - P4E 2.66Ghz @ 4.76Ghz
23. ford - 26.00 seconds - windows - p4 640@4500mhz
24. Cranox - 26.00 seconds - windows - A64 Venice @ 3200 mhz 2.2.2.5
25. enduracell - 26.00 seconds - windows - Win2k3 3500 CAA2C@11x292/13_UTT_Mach1
26. Dani - 26.00 seconds - windows - A64 3500 130nm S939 301x11DFI nF4 UltraD2xKHX3500 BH5
27. LardArse - 27.00 seconds - windows - P43.4EE @ 4744, 339 FSB 3:2
28. hallowen - 27.00 seconds - windows - FX53 @ 3176.4Mhz 235.3Mhz FSB 1:1 Cas 2,3,2,6,11,16
29. The Stilt - 27.00 seconds - windows - 4722MHz
30. GomerPyle - 27.00 seconds - windows - FX53@2998MHz 2225
31. pc ice - 27.00 seconds - windows - FX53@3102MHz 2225
32. Hoschi - 27.00 seconds - windows - FX53@3026MHz 2225
33. Niaboc79 - 27.00 seconds - windows - FX53@273*11 (2 2 2 1 7 12 1T)
34. Shidokanjohn - 27.00 seconds - windows - P4 3.4 EE 2 x 256MB Kingston value ram BH5
35. freecableguy - 27.00 seconds - windows - LGA775 3.4EE ES@ 4.42Ghz (260x17) on DFI LP925XT2 w/OCZ PC24200 DDR2
36. Team Bertha - 27.00 seconds - windows - A64 @ 3103Mhz 310*10 ddr @ 282Mhz

Nobody does 27's @ 2.8, actually, nobody does 27's short of 3G. It just isn't possible with our procs/hw.

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

27. LardArse - 27.00 seconds - windows - P43.4EE @ 4744, 339 FSB 3:2
28. hallowen - 27.00 seconds - windows - FX53 @ 3176.4Mhz 235.3Mhz FSB 1:1 Cas 2,3,2,6,11,16
29. The Stilt - 27.00 seconds - windows - 4722MHz
30. GomerPyle - 27.00 seconds - windows - FX53@2998MHz 2225
31. pc ice - 27.00 seconds - windows - FX53@3102MHz 2225
32. Hoschi - 27.00 seconds - windows - FX53@3026MHz 2225
33. Niaboc79 - 27.00 seconds - windows - FX53@273*11 (2 2 2 1 7 12 1T)
34. Shidokanjohn - 27.00 seconds - windows - P4 3.4 EE 2 x 256MB Kingston value ram BH5
35. freecableguy - 27.00 seconds - windows - LGA775 3.4EE ES@ 4.42Ghz (260x17) on DFI LP925XT2 w/OCZ PC24200 DDR2
36. Team Bertha - 27.00 seconds - windows - A64 @ 3103Mhz 310*10 ddr @ 282Mhz[/I]

Nobody does 27's @ 2.8, actually, nobody does 27's short of 3G. It just isn't possible with our procs/hw.

does that mean I'm the first one to hit 27's with 2.91 Ghz?!?! not sure if the patched version count though

27's @2.8 might be possible if I can pull off a 28x (1.5-2-2-x) x10 with extremely tight timing and high vmem.

**mad mikee** · 05-13-2005, 08:50 AM

Since you're all set up, test this and let us know if it works b4 I take stuff apart after work

(

is of course just

'n you

)

And while you're @ it, does it help all those others out their w/ venices

**ben805** · 05-13-2005, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by mad mikee

Since you're all set up, test this and let us know if it works b4 I take stuff apart after work

(

is of course just

'n you

)

And while you're @ it, does it help all those others out their w/ venices

I'm still at work but will try that 'tweak' when I get home

By the way, that dang Venice had already went back to my brother.

**Crazykooter** · 05-18-2005, 12:16 PM

Ive had a sub 28 sec run on non modded Pi for about week or so now. 27.976 or something LOL. Oh and at 2940 mhz

**burningrave101** · 05-18-2005, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Zebo

LOL. Got cheap?

Tests like this is why I always say buy the lowest rated chip in iteration and turn it into $1000 chip. Pyrite into gold is where it's at.

You kinda over spent gettin the 3200 brudda

Buying a 3700+ San Diego over a 3200+ Venice is kinda over spent but going with a 3200+ Venice over a 3000+ is actually a good idea because of getting the 10x multi and the fact that alot of 3000+'s aren't overclocking that great. The 3200+ seems to hit 2.7Ghz+ more regularly.

**xwoodoo** · 05-19-2005, 01:08 PM

Maybe i was lucky

Next week i will have 2 San Diego for tests. Hope i will be lucky too.
Very odd to see almost no difference between San D and Venice in 3DK 2001 coz between 4000+/FX55 Vs Winni was at least 1K in 2001SE

**ben805** · 05-19-2005, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Crazykooter

Ive had a sub 28 sec run on non modded Pi for about week or so now. 27.976 or something LOL. Oh and at 2940 mhz

With the non-patched version I still can hit 27's but needed slightly higher clock at 2.93Ghz

Originally Posted by xwoodoo

Maybe i was lucky

Next week i will have 2 San Diego for tests. Hope i will be lucky too.
Very odd to see almost no difference between San D and Venice in 3DK 2001 coz between 4000+/FX55 Vs Winni was at least 1K in 2001SE

My single stage Phase change is almost done and as soon as I get it up and running I'll do more benches....though without the Venice, my brother sold it to one of the member here and bought himself a 3800+.

**s7e9h3n** · 05-19-2005, 04:27 PM

I'm still waiting to see 27's @ 2.8

**ben805** · 05-19-2005, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by s7e9h3n

I'm still waiting to see 27's @ 2.8

hehehe.....was pushing too hard and one of the stick took a dump and wave white flag, when the 2nd pair arrive I'll try again

**xwoodoo** · 05-25-2005, 05:11 PM

I'm still waiting to see 27's @ 2.8

hard to say man ... but with some tweaks never knows...
I grabbed 2 SD 3700+ ADA3700 DAA5BN CAABGE 0516WPAW
here is a brief results
guess i was lucky this time too

by the way i just run 3DK2001SE both Venice&SanDiego .
clearly SanDiego outperforms venice(same frequence&config) by at least 1k in 3DK2001SE

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=19706

**FLDQUY157** · 06-12-2005, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by andL64

3D01 was known to respond best for larger L2 cache so dunno?!

I support this because I have seen this before my eyes.

I got a technically faulty AXP-M that only has 64KB L2 cache enabled. When I ran 3d01 I only got around 16000 on a 6800GT at 2400MHz on the same setup I got about 20000 from another AXP-M.

that was basically aboutt 3000 - 4000 marks different.

**XTCgr** · 06-13-2005, 11:10 AM

my results mates...ok,everything is in greek but the language of numbers is universal i guess!

http://www.thelab.gr/showthread.php?...217#post243217

well my results show exactly the opposite, san diego is faster than venice in same frequency

Thread: 3700 San Diego vs. 3200 Venice: Round 2!

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