Water Cooling questions

[Turok]

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Hello.

This is my first post here (and also the first time I post ). I have several questions about WC, but first lets look at my specs:

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PC Specs

I’m building a gaming machine and I’m also planning on OC’ing it. These are the specs:



The A64 3500+ will be the Venice core
EDIT: Ended up going for a FX-55
If it’s too small for you, you can check my signature below for the same specs.

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Water Cooling

Now this is the WC set I’m planning on getting:

DangerDen.com
Double HeatCore ½� + shroud
Fluid XP+

CoolTechnica.com
Swiftech MCW 6002-64
Aqua Xtreme 50z- DC 12

Xoxide.com
½� Snap Clamps (35x)
3/8� Snap Clamp (10x)

FrozenCPU.com
Tygon Anti-kink ½� Tubing (10ft)
Tygon Anti-kink 3/8� Tubing (2ft)
½� to 3/8� Reducer (8x)
½� T fitting
½� Y fitting (4x)
FrozenCPU.com Red UV water Dye

+ two Silverstone 120mm fans (they are 25mm thick, but push ~100 CFM)

Here is another pick showing how I’m planning on setting it up:



One of the things I want to do is convert the ½� ID tubing to Dual 3/8� ID tubing so I can pass the 3/8� tubing though one PCI slot without modding my case.

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Questions

Ok, here are my questions:

1) What are some possible temps with these settings? Room temp is usually at 75F/ 23.89C (According to my air conditioning box), and I’m thinking of having the HeatCore on my window so when it’s colder outside, I can just open my window and get a cool breeze directly through my HeatCore.

2) 1/2� vs. 3/8�? Compare both with same specs, except the WaterBlock and pump. Blocks: 3/8� for the MCW 6000, and ½� for the MCW 6002. Pumps: ½� with the 50z- DC 12, and 3/8� with something ~$80 USD. I might add a VGA block latter.

3) Does Fluid XP+ really work how they say it works? Will it be conductive or will the properties damage when mixing the FrozenCPU Red UV dye?

4) How will converting a ½� tubbing to a Y splitter and then Dual ½� to 3/8� fittings affect water flow and performance? (See pic above for reference) Is this method of mine better than just transforming a ½� to 3/8� and back to ½�? Will the Tygon 3/8� ID / ½� OD Tubing fit through a PCI slot (PCI slot is 1/2� wide. Sounds pretty obious that it could fit, but making sure if the ½� OD is really ½� in diameter)

5) What’s the best way of adding the fluid without getting air bubbles?

6) What’s the best way of making a “T� style reservoir? Is it possible to not cal it? Is it better to cap it? How about filling the tubes and reducing the filling tube as close to the T fitting as possible? Will this increase pressure or flow.

7) Will mixing UV dyes affect performance, UV rxn (reaction), increase conductivity, etc.?

8) Last question is a personal opinion :p. My case will have Dual CC Red lights (CC on, always on) and Dual CC UV lights (CC off, always on); Its also going to have UV Red cable sleeving for the PSU, (4x) Xoxide.com Red aluminum LED fans, and the DFI mobo has yellow UV slots and rounded cables (love that )

Hope someone can help me, and Ill try posting once a wile in this awesome forum.

[EnJoY]

Wow...huge post, luckily it seems you sort of know what your doing here, so it should save us all some time in assisting you.

First of all, forget Corsair (overpriced/bad overclockers), stick with OCZ/G.Skill for TCCD based ram and Mushkin, TwinMOS, or OCZ for Winbond based ram (UTT, new BH5). Example, a perfect replacement for that XL for you would be the OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev. 2 (2-2-2-5) TCCD. Also, consider ditching the Antec as well. They simply don't pack the same power and quality into their PSU's as other companies do these days. Grab either a PC Power & Cooling or an OCZ powersupply. My personally choice would be the OCZ 600w for your system.

In terms of your loop decisions, overall pretty good choices. Here is my slightly revised list.

CPU Block: MCW6000-64 (less restriction than the 6002, actually performs better too)
GPU Block (if you want): DDen Maze 4
Rad: The heatercore is nice, but I'd suggest PMing Weapon here at the forums and asking him for one of his modded cores. The craftsmanship is simply superb on his cores; they perform great and look sexier than any standard core on the market, and he'll slap on any fittings and paint color you want on em.
Tubing: 7/16" Tygon is my new tubing of choice after hearing Cathars thoughts on it. It fits snuggly over 1/2" OD fittings (what every company uses for their 1/2" blocks) and has no flow loss, also bends easier than 1/2" ID Tygon.
Fluid: Distilled water with Zerex would be perfect with your color scheme. Zerex with UV/Red cathodes and LEDS will give off a nice red glow and it'll perform a few degrees better than fluid XP. Hell, if the Zerex isn't red enough for you, you could even add a little red UV die and thatd make it perfect.
Pump: The 50z from cooltechnica is perfect for your setup, good choice.
Fans: 120x25mm fans dont have the static pressure required for a heatercore. Get the 120x38mm Panaflos, the M1A's to be exact. Really hood pressure and cfm with aceptable noise output in my opinion (around 33dba shrouded).

Use all 1/2" OD fittings, clearly you cant do this with the MCW, so simply get a foot of 3/8" tubing, fit it over the 6000's fittings and snip them off so you leave a little peice of the 3/8" tubing on the fittings, after doing that you should be able to fit the 7/16" tubing on their without a problem. And of course, I'd use metal worm clamps no matter how snug the tubing feels on the fittings, I've soaked two completely different systems this way before.

[Turok]

Thanks for the fast reply man.

I wish I would of done this before. I already have the Antec NeoPower 480w and the Corsair XLpro . Isnt the XLpro already good at 2-2-2-5 timmings? Would a Gskill OC even faster than that? The ram was too expensive for me and Im scratching money to get ready for the WC setup, so Ill have to stay with the XLpro for now. My main objective for now is to get 2.8 - 3.0 Ghz with the Venice core.

Is Zerex + Distilled conductive. Im a noob with WC so Im woried that I could have a leak and I dont want to wory about conductivity. I read a post somewere here that said that Distilled becomes conductive if I dont clean it because it starts to get dirty.

Since Im only cooling my CPU for now. How about having the 3/8" in my PC, and then bringing it out through the PCI slot and converting it to the 7/16" tubing.

I would see people talking about the Weapon cores, but I dont know how to get them. How can I get a core from craftsmanship?

And do you have any Idea about the temps I could get?

Thanks again for replying like 15 min afther I posted. lol.

[EnJoY]

Distilled water is just a fancy word for de-mineralized water, as is steam thats been put back into a liquid. So yes, it is conductive. However, you always test a loop with your pc OFF by plugging in the pump into the wall, or in your case (since you will have a 12v pump), you just use a paper clip and short the psu cable to make it turn the pump on, just make sure it isn't plugged into anything else. This is completely safe btw and someone else can tell you actually which two pins you need to short on the cable, I can't recall at the moment.

The memory will do fine, but yes, on average OCZ and G.Skill has shown to overclock higher more consistantly. The power supply should fair alright, however it may hold back your oc, especially if you're looking for 2.8GHz and above and are using a top of the line gfx card like a 6800/X800.

About the tubing, stick with the 7/16" ID tubing, it's really the best in every way. Just use the 6002 block and you'll have all 1/2" OD fittings, so the 7/16" tubing will fit on perfectly (wont leak even without clamps, but you should still clamp), and you wont have to do that trick with the tubing I told you about before. If you cant find this tubing at cooltechnica or where, just do a google search for 7/16" Tygon.

As for the Weapon Core, just look around here in the watercooling forums for his name...you should see it like 1000 times. Then just PM him about one of his 2-302 cores. He'll discuss options and pricing with you.

[shadowing]

Turok, I'm sorry to say but Corsairs really do suck at ocing. Mine can't even do 230FSB at the default timing. Go OCZ!

As for water cooling, it seems your case can fit a Weapon core. Generally, there are two types of weapon cores a 2-302, or 2-199. Any one of these kick ass.

Your pump you chose is good. Your tubing is excellent. For your CPU block, ar eyou going for performance? If not, your choice is good.

I concur with EnJoy. Go with distilled water and zerex.

[Turok]

Tnx again.
I guess 2 more question are left.

I really dont want to scratch the paint or the smooth aluminium surface of my new LianLi PC-65B case. Is there any method I can use to pass the 7/16" through my PCI slot?
And how about filling my Water Cooling in the most eficient way?

[Turok]

I dont want to crank the Core in teh case or drill holes. The PC-65B is a bit small for WC, so what I want is have a exterior WC solution and bring the tubes in from the PCI slot to cool the CPU and then the VGA latter on. And yex. Im going for performance. The PC is not going to be a benchmarking prototype or anything like that. Ill use it mostly for gaming so I want a cool and stable OC

[EnJoY]

7/16" could fit through two PCI slots with ease, might be tight with just one and it may make it kink. As for filling, I'd go with a single bay res from cooltechnica, dden, wherever you feel like getting it.

[Turok]

Ok, is this better?

Water Cooling

WC Concept Pick:



Parts:

Radiator / HeatCore
*Weapon HeatCore + shroud (What’s better, the 2-302 or 2-199?)

Fluid
*Ill try Zerex + Distilled.

Tubing
*Tygon Anti-kink 5/16� Tubing (10ft)
Did you mean 5/16� ID and 7/16� OD? That what I found in Tygon’s site.

CoolTechnica.com
*So I go with the Swiftech MCW 6000? Will the 5/17� fit?
*Aqua Xtreme 50z- DC 12. (Ill go with this one then )
*T cap
*T Fitting
*wow. 2x Delta 120mm X 38mm 152CFM !!! (Whats the dba on this thing? )
*Zerex

Ill get the metal clamps in HomeDepo. How do they measure these things and what’s the price per piece? The Xoxide clamps are the cheapest I found. Since you said capping isn’t a necessity with 6/17�, whats a cheap way of securing these things cheapely. Are UV cable Ties good enough?

I’m in 10th grade chemistry, so I can find a way of getting Distilled water and maybe feer, bur how purified does the Distilled water have to be?

Is this the Zerex you were talking about?
http://www.cooltechnica.com/Merchant...y_Code=H2O-Add

This solution could actually save me like $150
Would everything fit? Would everything be leak proof? Will I get ~20 C?

[EnJoY]

7/16" ID tubing, not 5/16". Use all 1/2" OD fittings on your parts.

2-302 and 2-199 are both very similar, I suppose just get the 2-302 as it's more popular these days.

Get the metal hose clamps at home depot. They'll be sold by the size of tubing they fit, for example...one size of the clamps will say "fits all tubing 3/8" - 5/8"", so you'd get those.

Just get a gallon or two of distilled over at your local CVS store, they're like $1.00 a gallon.

And no, you will not even get close to 20c loaded lol, unless your room/ambient temp is 5c or lower haha. You should expect load temps to be within 15c of your ambient temps. So for example, if your room temp is around 24c, you'll load at around 38-40c.

[shadowing]

Why a t-line? T-lines kill your performance.

[specialblend218]

Why a t-line? T-lines kill your performance.

How do T lines kill your performance?

[freecableguy]

How is this going to work?:

[nikhsub1]

How do T lines kill your performance?

I'd love to hear this one too.

[Turok]

How is this going to work?:

Its supose to be under the tube, not together. I guess I should of done like a shade or something so it looks like its behind it and not connected with it.

And about the 7/16" ID tubing. I cant find any Tygon tubings of that size.
Are you using this type of tubing? Were do you get it (Tygon or any other brand)?

Now what do I do. Will the T method kill flow or shouldI get a Dual 3.5" bay UV Red Acrilic reservoir from FrozenSPU.com? Will taht work or will it also kill frlow? Any other sudgestions

[MaxxxRacer]

The t line wont kill your flow but with a properly setup res you will get a little increase in flow over a T line. the larger the pump the more it favors a res and the greater the increase over a t line. but with a 50Z or DDC u dont have to worry nearly as much about this.

[Turok]

cool.
Well, the 7/16" ID tubing is still bugging me
Were do you find these tubes?

[Quanticles]

What if you just cut the seperator between two adjacent PCI slots, so you'd have one really big PCI slot hole? You should be able to fit 1/2 ID hose through there.

All of those fittings are going to restrict your flow. Remember even though the tubing on either side of the fittings is a certain size, the ID of the actual fittings is very smiall.


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Cutting the metal between two PCI slots shouldnt mess up your case noticably. =)

I'll be posting my case on here soon as soon as I finish patching up a leak. I acutally cut a huge hole in the top of my lian-li V1000 (black) as well as a few holes on the inside. It looks fine. My roommate thinks it looks turbocharged. lol. =D

[Quanticles]

Oh man.. sorry for three posts in a row... x.x

As far as the memory, the OCZ VX PC4000 gold edition is supposed to PWN on the dfi nforce 4 board. http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2369

The audigy zs gamer edition only comes with a couple extra games. It's not really a different card than the audigy zs. I also think there's rebate on the zs currently, I got it super cheap not but a month ago (60 dollars).

And get some Klipsch 5.1 Ultras =D

[Turok]

I dont want to even scratch my LianLi PC-65B case. WC wasnt part of my plan.
My decision of changeing to WC was because in one of these threads I found out that the thermalright XP-120 I got was going to crash with the top of my Corsair XLpro, so I felt forced to try WC for the first time because I wanted the best OCing capabilities in the cheapest form possible.

I already have the Corsair XLpro any way to get my $275 back?

I already have the z-5500. I think they sound great.

Hmmmmm... How cheap have you found the Audigy 2 ZS (non gamer). From the games offered, I only have Halo for PC.

[Turok]

I would like to see those pics
Lets see if you convince me

[MaxxxRacer]

Cutting out the pci slot isnt going to really affect anything. if you do it with a dremel you will never notice it was missing. you can make it look very good. and then you could use 1/2inch tubing if you wanted to without issue which i think would be better as its going to have to traverse a longer distance to get to the external rad. and over longer distances you want larger tubing as it poses less restriction.

[HiJon89]

I dont want to even scratch my LianLi PC-65B case. WC wasnt part of my plan.
My decision of changeing to WC was because in one of these threads I found out that the thermalright XP-120 I got was going to crash with the top of my Corsair XLpro, so I felt forced to try WC for the first time because I wanted the best OCing capabilities in the cheapest form possible.

I already have the Corsair XLpro any way to get my $275 back?

I already have the z-5500. I think they sound great.

Hmmmmm... How cheap have you found the Audigy 2 ZS (non gamer). From the games offered, I only have Halo for PC.

I have an Audigy 2 ZS (Non-Gamer), it worked awesome in my P4C800-E but I have no room for it in my DFI Ultra-D, all of the slots are populated so I'll probably sell it.

[MaxxxRacer]

HiJon, lets keep it to PM's or Buy Sell Trade forums please. Havnt done anything wrong yet, but just letting you know so u dont.

[Turok]

How about this method?



I wont have the exterior rad. too far from the PCI slot.
btw. Whats the best RAM a DFI nf4 Ultra-D could have? (talking about some xtreme overclocking here )