Xtreme Autocascade competition- lists rules etc.

[berkut]

This is a thread with the list, rules etc. for the autocascade competition.

This thread will change to a certain point (when final rules and start date will be set). Since that moment only the judges may change the rules etc.

Please post your comments here.

Members list:

-berkut (CO2, R290, 3/4hp Tecumeseh and Sanyo; 2 systems)
-Raven155 (CO2, R404A/R290, 1/3hp Danfoss SC10B)
-runmc (R507/R1150/R14, open class)
-gkiing (CO2, R22/R290, 1/4hp)
-bh2k (CO2, R290/R22 , yet unknown compressor)
-kayl (CO2, R290/R22, 1HP rotary)
-jan (CO2, R290/R22, L'Unite AJ5512E 1hp)
-Epsilon (r290/CO2 and a 1/2HP 14cc Electrolux compressor (MP14FB)
-hatemi (R290/R404A/CO2, 5/8hp Aspera or a Danfoss SC10D)
-Tonic (R290/R22/CO2, Tecumseh CAE2410A 1/3 HP)
-JSU (xxx/xxx/CO2, 1.5hp Copeland)

(more to come, please sign up by posting a reply in this thread)

Judges:

-chilly1 (? please confirm this on PM)

(probably there will be more judges)

The rules so far:

-Compressors up to 1hp, all types count in. 2 stage compressing does not count in. Only 1 compressor can be used.

-R290/R22/R404A/R507/R134A for I stage refrigerant, CO2 as II

-All the parts must be DIY, commercial oil separators, liquid separators, HX'es can not be used. The only commercial parts that can be used are safety devices as: expansion tanks, cut off swiches etc.

-only DIY evaporators can be used. Copys of commercial evaporators are allowed

-PEV's, TXV's, EEV's etc can be used.

-there are no condenser limitations as longas the ambient temps are above 20C


Those who want to contribute but wont use CO2. Probably the best among you will win something but this is not in the competition unless the discussion will head to making a open class.

Please post your projects in the AutoCascade Forum at TeamPuss for records , so we can keep them all together.

[gkiing]

I'm in.

1/4hp running R22 or r290 (or both) and CO2.

[runmc]

I'm in but not for prizes, just for the knowlege and competition. I'm gonna be in the "Open Class"

r507-r1150-r14

Chilly1 did you say something?? I thought I heard you.

TeamPuss will try and come up with a prize for one of the classes. Chilly1 said he was going to get some type of prize for Xtreme Systems.

Remember guys, this is a friendly competition. Prizes that we do come up with will be donated and come out of our own pockets.

I'm looking at three classes now.

Open class - anything goes

small compressor class + as discribed above
big compressor class + as discribed above

[chilly1]

I'll be a Judge. We will need pics temps with a calibrated meter and verification of the check of the meter at 0 degrees C with an ice bath. The other factors will be ingenuity, overall impression, temperature, load, and ease of use. There will also be consideration for the most unique design. THese will be the criteria that I will use to judge the units. So build'em cold, build'em clean and build'em yourself.

[berkut]

Im also out of the prizes, i want a intelectual challenge.

[pythagoras]

I'll donate somethings to the prize fund. It wont be a lot I'm afraid . Three sight glassess and 3 danfoss filter driers. A manifold guage set. Sorry I cant donate more but thats all I have to spare at the minute. If I have more to donate as the competition continues I'll add it here. I'll ship them as well.

Regards

John.

[chilly1]

Thanks john the guages would be nice, I will come up with something as well. Maybe take a collection for a DT200 meter... PM me if you want to do something like first the DT200 meter, second Guages, third ???

[blinky]

r507-r1150-r14

OMG, if u pull that off, i will have to bow down, that is quite a challenge

[pythagoras]

I'll donate a few dollars for a dt200, plus I'll throw in an OCZ ddr booster, I won it in this community, seems right to give it back if it will advance the knowledge of autocascade systems.

The booster is unused and therefore pristine.

Reggie, however you decide to award the prizes is fine with me

Regards

John.

[pythagoras]

Okay, one more idea, given that the competion is in order to further knowledge of autocascades and the nature of the forum, i.e. free sharing of knowledge. How about the following:

We appear to have three catagories, how about (given enough prizes) we have two winners in each section. First prize to the system that wins based on the judging criteria and a second prize for the person who provided the most help in designing their system? First prize awarded by the judges and the second prize awarded by the winner of that catagory.

This should allow free transfer of knowledge and an advancement of the state of the art in phase-change cooling. What do you think?

Regards

John.

[bh2k]

Im definitly in. For people who need any help I've started a thread about how I'm building my autocascade Here

I'll be using R22/R290/R744(C02)

[berkut]

The no.1 calibration shot:



Is this how you want us to do it chilly1 ?

[kayl]

count me in just gotta get all the parts before i start a thread, just hope i can get them all before the competition finishes.
i will use 1HP rotary, r290/r22 and co2.
is there gonna be a finish date, as i imagine its gonna take a while, especially if ya consider how long it takes ppl to build cascades, a auto cascade should take just as long if not longer on ppls first build since there is basically no post on it apart from the ones that have developed due to this competition.

also maybe there should be a rule that ppl have to use safety devices, as they dont have ppl physically there when they are building these machines and a accident could easily happen, high pressure explosion comes to mind.

[pythagoras]

I agree that there should be a long deadline, maybe 6 months? And I also agree that there should be some safety rules also. I would rather see some one save up for six months for an oil separator than risk saftey by building there own.

If you dont have the money to buy an oil separator how do you have the money for the equipment to pressure test your home made one. And if you dont have the money to pressure test it dont build it!!!!

Regards

John.

[kayl]

would pressure testing an oil seperator inside say a wooden box be ok to 500psi, as i will be using 450psi cut offs.
or would it need to be steel.

[MaZeR]

would pressure testing an oil seperator inside say a wooden box be ok to 500psi, as i will be using 450psi cut offs.
or would it need to be steel.

No. When testing pressure vessels it is common practice to actually fill them with water and pressurise only the lines that feed it, which along with the regulators should be rated well above the test pressure. Water being incompressible will not tend to cause an explosion should the vessel split. When the vessel is small you can get away with immersing it in water but that is not as safe.

[gkiing]

I agree that there should be a long deadline, maybe 6 months? And I also agree that there should be some safety rules also. I would rather see some one save up for six months for an oil separator than risk saftey by building there own.

If you dont have the money to buy an oil separator how do you have the money for the equipment to pressure test your home made one. And if you dont have the money to pressure test it dont build it!!!!

Regards

John.

Quite right, the home made oil separators using steel wool do cause a lot of friction and are potentially dangerous. I would spend the extra $125 or so to get proper oil separator, and another $60 (for a non adjustable) high pressure cutoff at the very least.

[berkut]

You guys are making a elephant out of a mouse. The velocities of the gasses inside a oil separators are very low, even the biggest friction wont heat up the gases enough. even if there would be a rupture theres CO2 in the system (not letting propane ignite) and copper and steel dont rupture in to pieces but are teared. I know cause i tested it.

may peapole used diy oil separators, nothing happened, they all made them correct.
the idea was to make peapole think, this includes separators and oil separators, not buy new ones....

[chilly1]

You guys are making a elephant out of a mouse. The velocities of the gasses inside a oil separators are very low, even the biggest friction wont heat up the gases enough. even if there would be a rupture theres CO2 in the system (not letting propane ignite) and copper and steel dont rupture in to pieces but are teared. I know cause i tested it.

may peapole used diy oil separators, nothing happened, they all made them correct.
the idea was to make peapole think, this includes separators and oil separators, not buy new ones....

Eaxctly. The nature of a phase seperator is to seperate the gasses it also seperates the oil because the oil stays primarly with the propans (solvent) and not with the CO2(Dry gas) An oil seperator is over kill on a Autocascade, if you are really concerned add a small piece or copper wool in the seperator.

[gkiing]

Eaxctly. The nature of a phase seperator is to seperate the gasses it also seperates the oil because the oil stays primarly with the propans (solvent) and not with the CO2(Dry gas) An oil seperator is over kill on a Autocascade, if you are really concerned add a small piece or copper wool in the seperator.

Steel wool ok too ?

[jan]

only DIY evaporators can be used. Copys of commercial evaporators are allowed

so chillys evaporator is not allowed?

[gkiing]

DIY means you make it youself, you cant buy a block. Just make a drill press block (lots of drilled holes in a maze pattern)

[chilly1]

The no.1 calibration shot:



Is this how you want us to do it chilly1 ?

Good method you need a little more ice..

[bh2k]

Oh my compressor is a 1/3 hp

[JSU]

im in, I have a 1/2hp roatry and a 1 1/2hp hermetic. If the 1/2hp falls into the small catagory then that the one ill use. If not ill just whip out the 1 1/2hp. I will be using propane co2 and maybe some other high temp refrigerants.