You guys seem to be forgetting about the Titan Supercomputer, obviously it was much more important than selling cards to gamers also tesla cards which have much higher profit margins would take propriety.
You guys seem to be forgetting about the Titan Supercomputer, obviously it was much more important than selling cards to gamers also tesla cards which have much higher profit margins would take propriety.
Stop trolling me. I never said Nvidia would have ordered the wafers on such short notice. Obviously, that would have had to happen months in advance.Originally Posted by LordEC911
Both companies refrained from a refresh for as long as possible to make as much as they felt they could from the current generation. Neither company is likely to be selling as many cards as before, and AMD is already spending tons on games for inclusion with purchase; they aren't going to refresh and pay for the retooling (if that's not the right word, you know what I mean) until they absolutely feel it's necessary. As for the increased cost, most components are increasing in price. Memory doubled from where it was, and is still creeping up; SSD prices have gone up; motherboard prices (particularly Intel) have been increasing in price. You also don't find as many deals as one used to. Video cards at $700+ shouldn't be surprising...
Obviously TSMC capacity is limited, especially at their cutting edge nodes.And its split between a number of companys.
So reality is, they could have release the card, but they didnt because it made much more sens to sell them at higher margins in tesla form.
Things could have change if AMD had something with crushing performance, then obviously they would paper launch it with very scarce availability and sky high prices.
Anyhow, the "if they could they would" logic not always applies ,it depends, intel could release an 8 core for desktop in the 200-300$ price range long ago.but they didnt,and probably wont even next year.And with high probability even a year after that :[
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absolutely NOT!
I'm trying to blame the gullible people but they are not listening...people in here will even justify this high price...likely because they have $ to throw away and welcome the idea of themselves being the elite few who own two or more of these in crossfire....yeah, you are real cool guys.
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Does it ever shock anyone else when your hear someone use Darwin's "survival of the fittest" to justify genocide?
I'm certainly not.
You admit it. They couldn't have released consumer cards at that time. Thanks.
Intel comparison doesn't apply, it is apples and oranges.
A majority of the associated R&D/manufacturing costs were already paid for with GK110.
There would be absolutely no reason for them to hold back a launch for so long.... which comes back to the "if they could have, they would have."
Originally Posted by motown_steve
Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.
Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.
No, I don't admit it. You should do more reading comprehension and less trolling. Honestly.
First: I never said Nvidia *had* to order more wafers to release the Titan in Q4 2012. It was just an assumption that there were not enough GK110 GPUs around.
Second: I also never said Nvidia *couldn't* order more wafers. I just said they *didn't*, but not why.
Face it - they could have launched the card a lot earlier. After all, it's just a K20X with higher clocks, and that card was sent to the Titan supercomputer as early as end of September. They shipped tens of thousands of these cards by the end of October.
I think you just have a problem accepting that because you want Nvidia to look bad. Guess what: Nobody here cares about your bias.
What bias? I'm asking for a logical reason they wouldn't have launched Titan or GTX780 in 2012 if everything was ready for launch... Not a one can be given.
You don't sit on inventory if everything is ready to go for a launch.
I bet they also could have released a 15SMX GeForce and Tesla but didn't... just because.
Last edited by LordEC911; 10-13-2013 at 10:28 AM.
Originally Posted by motown_steve
Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.
Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.
for me personally its about performance and amd hitting the market with something similar to the titan with a 6 month delay doesnt intrest me one bit but thats just me
Isn't it obvious?
1. More profit if you sell every GK110 as Tesla instead of GeForce
2. Not cannibalizing sales of the GTX 690
Usually, a GPU has a lifetime of about a year. What sense does it make to release a successor like the GTX 780 too early? Especially when the GK104 parts were all selling very very well. Had AMD had a 30% lead with 7970 GHz, I'm sure Nvidia would have reacted sooner, even if it had meant lower margins. But they were just fine with GK104 and could concentrate on selling every GK110-card for $3000+ instead of just $1000 or even $650.
So-
1. Means they don't have enough supply. (can't launch)
2. Isn't logical...
So you are suggesting they cut short their new ASIC's lifetime by holding onto it?
The fact is they launched as soon as they could, relatively, to the consumer market.
Originally Posted by motown_steve
Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.
Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.
1. No. Because we still don't know if it was a deliberate choice not to order more GPUs from TSMC.
Example: Nvidia needs 10,000 GPUs for Tesla and orders 10,000. Because they don't intend to sell them as GeForce yet. They could have ordered 50,000 maybe, but they didn't.
2. Yes, it is. Both cards occupy a spot quite close to one another at the same price point.
We don't know the lifetime of Titan and 780. If both cards live around a year, it's completely normal. I'll leave it at that - if you absolutely need to believe that they couldn't have launched earlier, by all means. It just doesn't make much sense...
Of course you can launch with not enough supply :-) ,they both did it many times.
2.Of course its logical, huge ass titan die is much harder to make, the ones they have can be sold as teslas at higher price, theres no imminent competition (thats one similarity with intel situation, which of course was meant to illustrate a simple point, that while you CAN its not always in your best interest,or jus some random board decision,and thats pretty the same).
However you just seem like all know it person, that just "knows bettah".
Anyhow folks, isnt this a hard derail from the topic ?Thats a discussion about TSMC yields of GK110 a year or so ago...
Any news on the R290 pricing yet ?
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Anyone have any clue about if a R9 290/290X would be faster than 7850 2GB CF? That is what I am looking at replacing right now.
1. 18,000+ in the Titan Supercomputer, they decided to use them for Tesla over GeForce. AMD releasing ~8,000+ Radeon over Fire Pro. Consider their corporate priorities and you will see AMD focus more on the consumer, nVidia are more split between business/enterprise and the consumer.
2. Not cannibalising sales of exisitng or upcoming products is very much a logical consideration for any company.
For a good reason.
Should be in the same ballpark.
Last edited by LordEC911; 10-13-2013 at 12:33 PM.
Originally Posted by motown_steve
Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.
Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.
Can we stop arguing about Nvidia supply in the thread about AMD Volcanic Islands? Thanks.
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(Update) AMD Radeon R9 290 series launch postponed
Another postponementIt’s not October 15th
Long story short it is not October 15th and the final date has not been disclosed yet. Of course I’m talking about the embargo on the reviews, I’m not sure how is this going to work with so many cards listed at etailer’s websites. You will probably be able to preoder them, but you also will have to wait for the delivery.
So when?
You’ve all seen previous embargo date which has been changed to an unknown date. AMD is yet to decide when the R9 290 series will be announced. It is said that Battlefield 4 launch date is now being discussed. From what I’ve learned AMD did not yet deliver the samples to all major reviewing partners. The rumor has it that AMD has problems delivering units, not only to reviewers but also to etailers offering Battlefield 4 bundle (that would explain why Newegg has not yet started its preoder).
Why delay it?
Other theory is that AMD wants to see what NVIDIA will launch in few days. Although no information has been confirmed yet, I heard that a Ti model is being prepared, probably GTX 770 Ti with 1920 CUDA cores, which would be a gap filler between GTX 770 and GTX 780. There are also rumors about a new TITAN with full GK110 enabled. So which card is NVIDIA going to show (if any?). AMD wants to know that too, so this could’ve been another reason for the postponed launch.
I’m far from making assumptions but this launch is getting little frustrating to follow. We all know how the cards look, we all know the specs. What we don’t know is how do both cards perform and how much will they cost. AMD could, or even should, at least allow reviewers to release the information about the new Hawaii architecture, leaving performance numbers for later date.
What you guys think? What could be any other reason for this delay?
UPDATE
Short after posting this story we received more information. According to it the release date is close to the official launch of Battlefield 4. Although I cannot confirm it (just) yet.
WOOOOOF
I guess modesty is a virtue in very short supply here these days.
mod-es-ty
ˈm?dəstē/
noun
1.
the quality or state of being unassuming or moderate in the estimation of one's abilities.
vir-tue
ˈvərCHo͞o/
noun
1.
behavior showing high moral standards.
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Thats 2 weeks, just before the premiere ? Sucks balls hard then.
Any reviewer from here can say anything about it ?
Reason bein ?Being full of oneself ;-) .For a good reason.
Just for future reference,as its neither the time nor the place for this discussion ,and its pointless really.You do understand that such simple and unexplained "facts" ,are meaningless in the internets?.If you have a good point then you should educate us with this information fully.One liner in this sort of thing will get you nor the discussion nowhere.
The more you know.
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The same bias since many years
Last edited by Olivon; 10-13-2013 at 02:08 PM.
Lol. I would have to agree. I think Lordecc should be one of the last person to claim no bias.
The same bias since many years
But back to the topic, another 2 week delay is pretty significant and the whole leak a month ago seems leaked on purpose two me. Hurting the sales of the gtx 780 and up for a month and a half is pretty significant.
In addition, if the leaked performance was that of an overclocked cards which seems likely if the card only overclocks to 1100mhz or 1400mhz under ln2, then we have reason to believe it might just match up with a overclocked gtx 780 when both are overclocked.
On another note, I think if AMD does release it at 1000mhz or a bit higher which is close to its overclocking ceiling, it make sense for AMD to clock this cards as high as it commercially because since this product is being released so late into the 28nm life-cycle, it doesn't make sense to release a refresh of hawaii with higher clocks just a few months later to have it replaced by 20nm products. It is still a possibility for Nvidia because the gk110 products have been on the market for a while now.
One of the possibilities that I thought of earlier, was it might be able to reach titan levels of performance but it would be at the cost of clocking the card closer to its ceiling.
Nvidia had to make a huge cut to their clocks because they used a larger die.
I am curious to see when the reviews come out, how much headroom is left in the 290x.
Last edited by tajoh111; 10-13-2013 at 03:13 PM.
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No one is making you guys read my posts, take it or leave it.
I've explained myself multiple times before to the same people and they choose to keep spouting the same BS. It is tiring...
I've admitted before that I have a slight bias towards AMD GPUs, that doesn't mean I'm not equally critical of both companies.
The same bias since many years
I've don't see how any of my posts about GK110 is showing any bias. I didn't even talk about AMD. I was discussing the facts at hand.
You simply cannot call Hawaii late when consumer GK110 took +8months to hit the market. I simply don't understand how that is being bias.
Originally Posted by motown_steve
Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.
Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.
Bro its not about what you know. Its your attitude.
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The bias come forth when your typically optimistic about AMD and pessimistic about Nvidia. I remember you said the 7990 was going to come out shortly after the gtx 690 and that didn't happen.
It also relate currently about this topic where it might have been possible for Nvidia to release the gtx 780 release a year ago.
Considering some of AMD's releases recently like its 7990( some rumors were there was like a 1000 cards for launch) or the fx-9590 which were all high priced, extremely low volume parts, I think if Nvidia had wanted to at the time, they could have delivered a volume similar to those products. But they didn't.
One possibly reason which would be reasonable is they simply didn't want to cannibalize their gtx 680.
GTX 680's were still priced closer to 500 dollars at the time and were plentiful and easy for Nvidia to make. What would happen if something like a $650 gtx 780 popped up? Sure they would sell every single one of those cards, lets say 20,000 cards(cards that didnt make k20x) at $650. But the hundreds of thousands of gtx 680 that had no supply issues couldn't be sold for 500 anymore. It wouldn't be a flagship any more and at 650, the gtx 780 would be the better value considering their price difference and performance difference. The pricing of the gtx 780 only makes sense and doesn't cause as much cannibalization when the street price of the gtx 680 falls to 400 or less.
But what your saying LordECC without any proof and just say I know is it couldn't be done. They couldn't release it. If AMD was in the reverse situation, you might take the positive upshot(like the 7990 release).
If you want me to give you an example of this attitude and bias, lets look at Charlie from semiaccurate(don't worry your not this biased). When rx-xxx was leaked he was saying it was the end for Nvidia, they are screwed because of AMD's all new lineup is going to put Nvidia to the curb. He lightly mentions that some of the cards are rebrands but he talks up Hawaii like the second coming of Christ. When he was talking about gk110, he said the performance was underwhelming and underperforming, screaming at the top of his fingers that the gtx 770 was a rebrand. And he completely ignored hawaii is coming 8 months after gk110.
If we look at what AMD is doing with this launch aside from mantle, is releasing their Nvidia equivalent of the 7xx series 8 months later. Its hardly going to screw Nvidia besides put some pressure to lower the price of some of their products to have margins which resemble AMD's, rather than the record margins before this launch.
What I am trying to get at is you resemble to a lesser extent this negative outlook Charlie has. Talking up AMD and putting down Nvidia.
And lets look at the big picture, Hawaii's launch time was needed a long time ago. It was needed because the price of the 7970 and the rest of the lineup has fallen so far to the point AMD was barely breaking even on the graphics card division. Not having a new lineup has depressed the price of Tahiti so much that tahiti cards can be found at half the price of their initial value( and this price drop isn't a result of their own cards). It's coming out 8 months after gk110, and during this time AMD has lost a lot of potential revenue through shrinking margins.
Hawaii is on schedule from a roadmap stand point but late from a financial standpoint because it has caused them to lose a lot of potential revenue.
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