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Thread: New Haswell information reguarding voltage regulator

  1. #1
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    New Haswell information reguarding voltage regulator

    Saw this today an I have to say, I am a bit worried about this move and the overclocking potential of Haswell. Lets hope this new voltage regulator is controllable. what do you guys think?

    SOURCE



    Intel's Haswell Takes A Major Step Forward; Integrates Voltage Regulator
    Monday, May 13, 2013 - by Joel Hruska
    For the past decade, AMD and Intel have been racing each other to incorporate more components into the CPU die. Memory controllers, integrated GPUs, northbridges, and southbridges have all moved closer to a single package, known as SoCs (system-on-a-chip). Now, with Haswell, Intel is set to integrate another important piece of circuitry. When it launches next month, Haswell will be the first x86 CPU to include an on-die voltage regulator module, or VRM.




    If the idea rings a dim bell, it should. This is an approach Intel first discussed back in 2005 during IDF. At the time, the company showed off a Pentium M 738 with a CMOS voltage regulator on-package and claimed that this allowed the company to save large amounts of power by shifting to low power states much more quickly. In 2005, the technology was nowhere near ready for primetime. Now, it is.

    Boosting The Race To Zero:



    Haswell incorporates a refined VRM on-die that allows for multiple voltage rails and controls voltage for the CPU, on-die GPU, system I/O, integrated memory controller, as well as several other functions. Intel refers to this as a FIVR (Fully Integrated Voltage Regulator), and it apparently eliminates voltage ripple and is significantly more efficient than your traditional motherboard VRM. Added bonus? It's 1/50th the size.



    The good news is that this technique should allow Haswell to draw less power than Ivy Bridge. It'll enter and exit power-saving states more quickly, which allows for more aggressive throttling, and it should run extend system battery life.

    The bad news is that building the FIVR on die may hurt CPU temps and overclocking at higher clock speeds. According to leaked (but trustworthy) spec sheets, the upcoming HD 4770K series holds the line on base and turbo clock speeds compared to the 3770K, but increases TDP to 84W, up from 77W. That increase is likely driven by incorporating the FIVR. That doesn't mean the system's power consumption has changed, but a component that used to exist in a separate domain is now being cooled by the CPU heatsink+fan and sits within the same socket.



    Whether this ends up shortchanging the CPUs overclocking performance isn't clear yet. Theoretically, the FIVR could become a hot spot under increased load, which would sharply limit OC capability. What's more certain is that the FIVR design is a definite step forward for notebooks, tablets, and smartphones. Haswell is debuting the technology -- we don't know if it's incorporated into the upcoming Silvermont hardware -- but if it works here, it'll be adopted for other products. Long-term, these are the sorts of innovations that'll pry open markets that were traditionally closed to x86 due to high power consumption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xel_NaGa View Post
    The bad news is that building the FIVR on die may hurt CPU temps and overclocking at higher clock speeds. According to leaked (but trustworthy) spec sheets, the upcoming HD 4770K series holds the line on base and turbo clock speeds compared to the 3770K, but increases TDP to 84W, up from 77W. That increase is likely driven by incorporating the FIVR. That doesn't mean the system's power consumption has changed, but a component that used to exist in a separate domain is now being cooled by the CPU heatsink+fan and sits within the same socket.



    Whether this ends up shortchanging the CPUs overclocking performance isn't clear yet. Theoretically, the FIVR could become a hot spot under increased load, which would sharply limit OC capability. What's more certain is that the FIVR design is a definite step forward for notebooks, tablets, and smartphones. Haswell is debuting the technology -- we don't know if it's incorporated into the upcoming Silvermont hardware -- but if it works here, it'll be adopted for other products. Long-term, these are the sorts of innovations that'll pry open markets that were traditionally closed to x86 due to high power consumption.
    I recall having said something like that, here...

    Quote Originally Posted by zir_blazer View Post
    Also, when comparing Ivy Bridge vs Haswell on power consumption and heat, I agree with what was said about the VRMs. However, there are a lot of details that I don't know if are available in some form to correctly speculate about it: First, I don't know if the VRMs were integrated on another chip like it is being done on Haswell before, to at least have an idea of its impact on another sample. Second, the VRMs dissipates heat, that in Haswell, will be obviously considered under the TDP budget (Add in the power consumption of the bigger GPU, too) that the Heatsink of it must be able to handle. But I don't know how efficient the regular VRMs on Motherboards usually are (Nor the one on Haswell itself) to know how much it actually represents. And third, even through Haswell got a slighty bigger die size than Ivy Bridge and thus with the same power dissipation, I would expect it to be slighty cooler than a comparable Ivy Bridge assuming all other being the same (TIM, Heatsink, Fan), hotspots on the die could matter a lot. Albeit I know nothing about IC desing, I suppose that the integrated VRM could be a very important hotspot (Considering how hot they usually get on both Motherboards and Video Cards), but not sure if similar or worse than the Core logic. Maybe the VRM hotspot is so bad that it becomes the most limiting factor when overclocking, even if the rest of the die is relatively cool.
    Did someone else already produced any type of chip with integrated VRM that we could compare to a non-VRM version to have an idea of how drastic the change could be?

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    So far it looks like Haswell has been really over-hyped as far as actual performance.

    In regards to Haswell's VR it's not going to be easy to surpass a built in VR. Perhaps a mobo trace alterations as in days of yore might work?

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    This thing might be nice for daily use pc's, netboxes and HTPC's, we might have to wait for Ivy-E (or even Haswell-E) for a solid performance gain ....

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    plain lol... has any of you guys you touched it yet ? or just speculating your asses off ?
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    AFAIK the VRMs are supplementary and intended to help with voltage granularity, VRMs will still be needed on the mainboard as well.

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    I'm guessing it's only the pwm controller, not fets and coils right? this means the mobo can ignore it like vid and have it's own controller?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeghoofd View Post
    plain lol... has any of you guys you touched it yet ? or just speculating your asses off ?
    i can tell one thing when overclocking...welcome to nehalem v2

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    How much will we have to pay for it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz_the_germ View Post
    How much will we have to pay for it?
    Same launch prices with Ivy Bridge's
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    you understand it wrong, its not PWM + coils + caps in CPU, but only iVR in CPU, motherboards PWM is the same like in past, but CPU feeds only TWO voltages not FIVE like on IB ...

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    By the end of week I'm sure there will be plenty of overclocking results starting to surface.

    Specimens are out in the wild, and by next week there will probably be retail malay results posted in Asia by non NDA sources.

    A retail 4770k is already posted on eBay.
    Last edited by LagunaX; 05-18-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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    ocing is not surprise, worst then ivy bridge, worst the sandy bridge ... thats all

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    It sucks :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by PedantOne View Post
    you understand it wrong, its not PWM + coils + caps in CPU, but only iVR in CPU, motherboards PWM is the same like in past, but CPU feeds only TWO voltages not FIVE like on IB ...
    what do you think makes a VRM?

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    Air and water guys have SB, LN2 benchers have IB and Haswell... And justice for all...
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    sb is history in all benches now,diff is huge between sb and hasswell

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