New Maya Workstation Build - Many Questions! Magny-Cours or Westmere?

[LUCI5R]

Ave,


I'm in the process of building a brand new (personal) workstation dedicated for Maya, and am trying to gather all the right information before I start ordering parts. I have years of experience building systems from scratch - but I haver never built a Workstation. I obviously have many questions and I hope using this thread I can gain the necassary knowledge to get the right components.

I have a budget of around $2,000 ~ $2,500. This does not include monitors & input peripherals; this budget is dedicated to the Workstation Tower.

I definitely do not want to stir up an AMD vs. Intel debate; because I have worked with both CPU's and I love them equally. However - that is the very first step where I'm stuck.

I'm trying to determine what is best for a Maya Workstation; most specifically for rendering speeds.

Is it better to have the most cores you can get?
Is it better to have faster cores BUT fewer cores or slower Cores BUT more cores?
Would a 6-core Westmere outperform an 8 or 12 core Magny-Cours?

These are just some questions. The reality is, just browsing on Newegg.Com, I can get an 8-Core or even 12-Core Magny-Cours for almost the same cost, if not less, then a 6-Core Westmere.

I'd like to get a decent dual-socket server motherboard, and preferably 2 CPU's (Westmere or Magny-Cours); add around 24GB DDR3 RAM and finish off with an nVidia Quadro 2000 1GB workstation graphics card. In terms of the Westmere vs. Magny-Cours indecision - it is also possible for me to get a single 12-Core Magny-Cour now and add another 12-Core Magny-Cours later down the road ... if this combination would be better then grabbing 2 X 6-Core Westmere's now. Considering the cost difference.

My understanding is, unless you use a GPU-Specific renderer, like Arion or FurryBall, most other renderers are CPU-Specific and the GPU only helps in Viewports. I primarily use Maxwell Renderer & Mental Ray, so for me it makes more sense to spend on CPU then GPU, which is why I'm restricting to a Quadro 2000. (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

Before I started to look at Magny-Cours, I had created an initial Intel-based list which was something like this ...

ASUS Z8NA-D6C Dual LGA 1366 Motherboard
2 * Intel Xeon E5645 Westmere-EP 2.4GHz LGA 1366 80W Six-Core Server Processor
PNY VCQ2000-PB Quadro 2000 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Video Card
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 24GB (6 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333

But after looking at Magny-Cours, the pricing difference, and doing a bit of readng - I'm not so sure if I should go with Westmere or Magny-Cours.

Any suggestions, advice or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!

[rintamarotta]

Not shure how reliable this is but http://www.anandtech.com/show/2978/a...-6-core-xeon/1
Go figure what is better.

[Mats]

- I'm not sure Asus is a great brand for dual socket boards, Supermicro have a better reputation. You should ask someone like Movieman, he can probably give you some advice.

- How soon will you buy? AMD's new Interlagos is just about to get launched, with up to 16 cores.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d-on-Bulldozer

[Dimitriman]

- I'm not sure Asus is a great brand for dual socket boards, Supermicro have a better reputation. You should ask someone like Movieman, he can probably give you some advice.

- How soon will you buy? AMD's new Interlagos is just about to get launched, with up to 16 cores.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d-on-Bulldozer

Agree with everything you said, I'd definitely wait for Interlagos as that will cost the same but add 33% more cores.

As for motherboards, go Supermicro or Tyan for 2P systems I would say.

http://www.tyan.com/product_motherbo...eron_6100.aspx
http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/moth...d/Opteron6100/

[[XC] gomeler]

Sounds like you need some benchmarks. Like you said, is it a bunch of slower cores or a few faster cores. I'd go find some 3D modeling forums and ask the users what their CPU load is like. I'm sure there will be some enthusiasts there that have done some comparisons.

[zanzabar]

im not sure on the current builds but maya did not like multi cpu setups and ran better with a high clocked single cpu. if u are doing a frame with maxwell that like as many cores as u can get so a mangy would be better, but u may beable to get a BD based server chip and that would be your best bet IMO based on specs.

then for the gpu if u cannot get a gf100 based card u want amd and if it dose not need to be certified go for a 6970 2GB and flash the device id with RBE to the firepro version so it will use the workstation drivers.

[Mats]

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Hardwa...ht/true#M22594

Maybe go for single Bulldozer/SB/SBE and clock high, together with fast RAM. Those dual socket boards doesn't support higher RAM speeds.

[Dimitriman]

But Mats isn't that more related to the Mem controller on MC rather than the motherboard itself?
I presume once Interlagos is released and with a bios update the motherboard will support 1600 Mhz Ram no?

[Mats]

But Mats isn't that more related to the Mem controller on MC rather than the motherboard itself?
I presume once Interlagos is released and with a bios update the motherboard will support 1600 Mhz Ram no?

You may be right about that, but I was referring to the board in the OP's list:
http://www.asus.com/Server_Workstati...specifications

[LUCI5R]

First of all guys - thanks for the multitued of replies; I have a few here to get back to ...

- I'm not sure Asus is a great brand for dual socket boards, Supermicro have a better reputation. You should ask someone like Movieman, he can probably give you some advice.

- How soon will you buy? AMD's new Interlagos is just about to get launched, with up to 16 cores.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d-on-Bulldozer

Incidentally - up until yesterday I hadn't even hard about Interlagos (Perhaps I was focussing on Intel's roadmap too much). But after reading about it over the last 24 hours, I'm convinced I need to wait for Interlagos to drop. I wanted to buy within a couple of months - but looking at Interlagos, I will definitely stretch that to whatever's necassary.

Agree with everything you said, I'd definitely wait for Interlagos as that will cost the same but add 33% more cores.

As for motherboards, go Supermicro or Tyan for 2P systems I would say.

http://www.tyan.com/product_motherbo...eron_6100.aspx
http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/moth...d/Opteron6100/

100% Agreed!! And it's looking like THAT's the build I will be going for ... Interlagos + 2P. The ASUS I was looking at was geared more towards th Intel based westmere system; where ASUS is proven gold. However for the upcoming Interlagos, I'm definitely taking your suggestions.

Sounds like you need some benchmarks. Like you said, is it a bunch of slower cores or a few faster cores. I'd go find some 3D modeling forums and ask the users what their CPU load is like. I'm sure there will be some enthusiasts there that have done some comparisons.

That's where I've had major trouble; nothing seems to have been on newer hardware platforms using newer software versions. The most recent benchmarks I have been finding have been '09, '08 or even as far back as '06. And I'm a member of most prominent CGI Forums. I'm either finding people who are still playing with i7-920's & Radeon HD6000's or people with a $6K ~ $10K budget.

im not sure on the current builds but maya did not like multi cpu setups and ran better with a high clocked single cpu. if u are doing a frame with maxwell that like as many cores as u can get so a mangy would be better, but u may beable to get a BD based server chip and that would be your best bet IMO based on specs.

The current software versions have updated massively - including Maya 2012 & Maxwell Render 2 - with extensive multi-core / multi-thread support.

[SUPERKAMES]

You'll need the CPU's speed + Professional cards/Softmoded cards for modelling , and the power of multi-core / multi-thread for renderring .
Choose the fast & less core CPUs may be more suitable for any 3D programs.

[LUCI5R]

Some clearer directions are beginning to emerge; it's imperative that I wait & look at the upcoming CPU's. Spoke to Movieman as well who gave me incredible wealth of information.

As of right now, I have 2 options - both looking solid, one holding the edge over the other.

Option one is a 16-Core "Interlagos" based system; Dual socket G34 motherboard with 2 * Interlagos; giving me a 32-Core workstation. The upside of this is that it can be had in my budget; the downside would be the core speeds.

Option two is the upcoming SB-E platform; supposedly a Dual Socket might be in the works for that. 6-Core or 8-Core SB-E's running on a dual socket LGA2011 board. Upside of this system would be core speeds - inevitably, this would smoke the 32-Core Interlagos. The downside - pricey!! I may not be able to fit this in my budget.

I'm set on the nVidia Quadro 2000 as the workstation GPU and 24GB DDR3 ram; so it's a matter of pitting Interlagos against SB-E ... for which I need to wait.

[zanzabar]

a v7800 or v7900 are in the same price range as the q2000 and the v7800 is about 2x as fast. the q2000 is a gf106 so its a desktop 440/450 and not on the revised gf11x silicon. its a terrible card for $500-600. u need to go look at benches as unless u get a full gf110 amd is better and amd is better at ever price point that they are in.

for the cpu, u really need clock speed, do u have the budget that u could make a maxwell box or something, i went and looked and your best bet is a single cpu high clocked workstation and a maxwell server if u need it so u could go for a xeon 1155/1156 and that would be your best bet for the maya box and then the BD based g34 is the best maxwell or even the cheaper mangy if that lets u split the boxes.

and for ram, if u are going for the g34 u dont want 24GB that would mean unmatched sticks or channels u want to go 16 or 32.

[Hondacity]

8c12t sbe will be like 1600USD :P

[Dimitriman]

Some clearer directions are beginning to emerge; it's imperative that I wait & look at the upcoming CPU's. Spoke to Movieman as well who gave me incredible wealth of information.

As of right now, I have 2 options - both looking solid, one holding the edge over the other.

Option one is a 16-Core "Interlagos" based system; Dual socket G34 motherboard with 2 * Interlagos; giving me a 32-Core workstation. The upside of this is that it can be had in my budget; the downside would be the core speeds.

Option two is the upcoming SB-E platform; supposedly a Dual Socket might be in the works for that. 6-Core or 8-Core SB-E's running on a dual socket LGA2011 board. Upside of this system would be core speeds - inevitably, this would smoke the 32-Core Interlagos. The downside - pricey!! I may not be able to fit this in my budget.

I'm set on the nVidia Quadro 2000 as the workstation GPU and 24GB DDR3 ram; so it's a matter of pitting Interlagos against SB-E ... for which I need to wait.

6c/12t Xeons/SBE would not smoke 16 core Interlagos across the board. For heavily multithreaded tasks I would still put my money on the Opteron. Remember it is still 24 threads vs 32.

[zanzabar]

6c/12t Xeons/SBE would not smoke 16 core Interlagos across the board. For heavily multithreaded tasks I would still put my money on the Opteron. Remember it is still 24 threads vs 32.

u mean 24 v 64, each BD core dose 2 threads so if u have a 2p thats 32 cores and 64 threads.

[Mats]

u mean 24 v 64, each BD core dose 2 threads so if u have a 2p thats 32 cores and 64 threads.

One Interlagos CPU have two dies, 8 modules, 16 cores and 16 threads.
No matter how you interpret the whole core/module thing, a dual socket Interlagos system does have 32 threads, maximum.

[EniGmA1987]

^^^^ Um, No.

The Interlagos 16 core is an 8 module 16 thread processor. It isnt 16 modules with 32 threads.

EDIT: Mats beat me to it

[zanzabar]

One Interlagos CPU have two dies, 8 modules, 16 cores and 16 threads. No matter how you interpret the whole dore/module thing, a dual socket Interlagos system does have 32 threads, maximum.

oh, i though each module had 2 cores and each core had 2 threads

[Dimitriman]

oh, i though each module had 2 cores and each core had 2 threads

Intel will probably do that first one day...

[LUCI5R]

a v7800 or v7900 are in the same price range as the q2000 and the v7800 is about 2x as fast. the q2000 is a gf106 so its a desktop 440/450 and not on the revised gf11x silicon. its a terrible card for $500-600. u need to go look at benches as unless u get a full gf110 amd is better and amd is better at ever price point that they are in.

This is interesting but I do have a couple of arguments; most importantly - they are not the same price at all!! Quadro2000 is only $440 ... v7800 is $620 and v7900 is $750. So there's a $200 & $300 difference. If you compare at the price point - then you need to pick Quadro4000 which is roughly $700.

Price point aside - I do agree with you that the AMD's will be "faster" - but the thing is, in any & every CGI forum if you talk to anybody in the CGI work, they always vouch for nVidia over AMD. One big factor is CUDA - supported heavily by both Maya & Maxwell Render, amongst other popular plugins like Pulldownit, etc. The bottomline is - most CGI people seem to agree you get more computation out of nVidia then AMD for Maya & related software. I personally don't know because I'm new into this - and I haven't used a single Professional Graphics yet.

All the comparisons aside - the reality is that for rendering & all - CPU is far more important then GPU, and that's why I don't want to spend over $600 on the GPU. My budget for the GPU was roughly $400 which I would stretch by $40 to get the Quadro2000. At that $400 price point - if I can get better computational power from an AMD GPU, I'm game!!

for the cpu, u really need clock speed, do u have the budget that u could make a maxwell box or something, i went and looked and your best bet is a single cpu high clocked workstation and a maxwell server if u need it so u could go for a xeon 1155/1156 and that would be your best bet for the maya box and then the BD based g34 is the best maxwell or even the cheaper mangy if that lets u split the boxes.

Well - for starters, I want to stick to a single Workstation - for both development & rendering. I'm not as far down as rendering feature length motion pictures, so for now, given my budget, I think I can do well enough (Compared to what I have currently) in building a powerful Workstation.

There are 2 ways for me to approach this - I can go "Cores" or I can go "Core Speeds". The former brings me to AMD & the latter brings me to Intel. I'm not 100% certain which one will benefit me more. There are people who say for rendering just blindly go for more cores (even if they are slower) ... and there's others who say a 6-Core single Intel chip with HT is far better then then the 12-Core Magny. Like you said - I need benches, but I can't really find any, at least not geared towards Maya & alike.

I've done my mathematics as well - I can definitely do a 2 * Magny on a Dual Socket G34 right now in my budget!! Without a doubt. I can even do a single Interlagos or even Dual Interlagos (But I'd have to pick the lower-end chip) in my budget!!

On the other hand - I would only be able to do a single 6-Core SB-E in my budget. The question for me will be is the single 6-Core SB-E on the new LGA2011 socket gain more power then a single 16-Core Interlagos (high-end) on the G34? That for me is the Gold mine right there.

and for ram, if u are going for the g34 u dont want 24GB that would mean unmatched sticks or channels u want to go 16 or 32.

That makes sense!

Thanks.

[Mats]

Some thoughts and brainstorming -

- Have you checked that forum I linked to? They referred to another site, maybe some more info there? Ask them about performance or benches.

- Have you considered flashing a regular graphics card, like Zanzabar said? Lots of money to be saved.

- I think you can save a lot of money by picking a desktop CPU and clock it.
If you can imagine buying a single Interlagos (16 x ~2.4 GHz, ~$1400), then I wonder how far behind an overclocked desktop Zambezi (8 x 5 GHz, $250) would be.
Also, the motherboard would cost less, too. Granted, it will only have dual channel RAM.

- Some server guy will probably shoot me down for saying this, but what are the possibilities to run a single CPU in a dual socket motherboard?
You lower the cost for now, but have the easiest way to upgrade in the future.

Those who say go for more cores maybe don't have a fresh opinion about it. 12 thread Intel isn't very old, and AMD's Zambezi comes next month.

[zanzabar]

i did not know that the quatro 2000 was down to $400 i was thinking it was $550-600.

if maxwell supports cuda then u defiantly need a single socket system an a 580, that will give u the best render speed, or a better quatro.

its really hard to say what is better with workstations as every software suit is different as to cores or clock speed being better and what gpu or gpgpu.

[Dimitriman]

Some thoughts and brainstorming -

- Have you checked that forum I linked to? They referred to another site, maybe some more info there? Ask them about performance or benches.

- Have you considered flashing a regular graphics card, like Zanzabar said? Lots of money to be saved.

- I think you can save a lot of money by picking a desktop CPU and clock it.
If you can imagine buying a single Interlagos (16 x ~2.4 GHz, ~$1400), then I wonder how far behind an overclocked desktop Zambezi (8 x 5 GHz, $250) would be.
Also, the motherboard would cost less, too. Granted, it will only have dual channel RAM.

- Some server guy will probably shoot me down for saying this, but what are the possibilities to run a single CPU in a dual socket motherboard?
You lower the cost for now, but have the easiest way to upgrade in the future.

Those who say go for more cores maybe don't have a fresh opinion about it. 12 thread Intel isn't very old, and AMD's Zambezi comes next month.

Just one counter argument, some rumours claim top Interlagos chip will set you back about US$ 1100 only, this would be great news I think.

There is also another point that if he wants a serious workstation where reliability is important, then its another point in favor of the server parts.

I also understand that if clock speeds are important, the 8 core opterons will clock a lot higher than the 16 cores and could be an interesting setup being cheaper as well = Go for 2x 8 core, get higher clocks but also enjoy the benefits of the workstation platform.

Just some thoughts.

[EniGmA1987]

Interlagos I think has a 16 core 2.3 GHz model, that clocks to 2.7 or 2.8GHz with turbo on. You have to remember when comparing Magny Cours to the newer Intel's that the AMD that is being compared is much older. The new Interlagos shipping very soon is a new architecture that is supposed to be better, is a bit faster, and has more cores. I really think for CGI rendering that an Interlagos system is the way to go. 8 additional threads will help you more than 500MHz extra speed per core.