GTX 480 or gtx 570

[pythonse]

this is my gaming clans website
www.solo-elite.com
we support a dcs A10 combat flight sim game
the wing leader is named aceflier...if u decide to give it a try then make an account and ur more than welcome to join us..we have been around for 12 years and also have a ventrilo server and support many fps games. my name is =S*E=Python and im a council member there and we have members from all over the world,mainly from the uk and usa,but also from across europe as well as the ukraine
anyways hope to see u there and good luck with ur pc

[M31]

this is my gaming clans website
www.solo-elite.com
we support a dcs A10 combat flight sim game
the wing leader is named aceflier...if u decide to give it a try then make an account and ur more than welcome to join us..we have been around for 12 years and also have a ventrilo server and support many fps games. my name is =S*E=Python and im a council member there and we have members from all over the world,mainly from the uk and usa,but also from across europe as well as the ukraine
anyways hope to see u there and good luck with ur pc

Thanks for that ... site is bookmarked and I'll pay a visit real soon.

I only recently bought DCS A10, TM warthog HOTAS and MFD's too ... I've got a lot more to learn in this uber realistic sim first though.

Thanks.

[pythonse]

you have a hotas? cougar? nice! aceflier and the guys will get u up to speed..make sure to mention my name and u can also pm me once u make an account..let me know what name u have once u sign up. cya soon bro

[TJ TRICHEESE]

Your 570's should be fine if not overclocked, the reason the 570's were dying was that they had too puny vregs for the speeds the cores can reach.

[STEvil]

i belong to the evga forums..there isnt any threads that state the 570's "blow up"..there have been failures on the reference cards when heavily overclocked.

There were also failures at stock settings on reference cards. The failures were due to driver errors allowing the cards to utilize more of the GPU than what the VRM can support. All current drivers limit the performance of the GTX570 to keep them from dieing.

here's a 5 page thread for you to catch up on. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...t=dead+gtx+570

[BababooeyHTJ]

There were also failures at stock settings on reference cards. The failures were due to driver errors allowing the cards to utilize more of the GPU than what the VRM can support. All current drivers limit the performance of the GTX570 to keep them from dieing.

here's a 5 page thread for you to catch up on. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...t=dead+gtx+570

The problem that I have with these threads is that people attribute every GTX570 death to the pictures of burnt up vrms that we have seen on heavily overclocked cards when that isn't necessarily the case. I mean, when you read through the list at OCN and see a couple of people listing web browsing under "what were you doing at the time" you kind of realize that there is something up and makes me question a lot of other posts who haven't taken apart their cards.

The GTX570 is a popular card and some are bound to die as with any video card.

[M31]

There were also failures at stock settings on reference cards. The failures were due to driver errors allowing the cards to utilize more of the GPU than what the VRM can support. All current drivers limit the performance of the GTX570 to keep them from dieing.

here's a 5 page thread for you to catch up on. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...t=dead+gtx+570

Here is a sentence for you to catch up on ... Give it a bloody rest, the GTX 480 vs 570 war is now officially over and the winner was Who cares a damn.

The OP has long since decided what to do.

[STEvil]

The problem that I have with these threads is that people attribute every GTX570 death to the pictures of burnt up vrms that we have seen on heavily overclocked cards when that isn't necessarily the case. I mean, when you read through the list at OCN and see a couple of people listing web browsing under "what were you doing at the time" you kind of realize that there is something up and makes me question a lot of other posts who haven't taken apart their cards.

The GTX570 is a popular card and some are bound to die as with any video card.

Well, do you know how VRMs tend to burn up? Here's a hint: they either go out in a glorious flame, or just die out with nothing but a whimper. Electromigration is the key word you want if you care to further your education.

M31: It was a reply to Pythonse who seems to think the 570's are bullet proof. Fact is they are as weak as the 590's VRM wise and the VRM can enter a cascading overload if pushed too far.

[BababooeyHTJ]

Well, do you know how VRMs tend to burn up? Here's a hint: they either go out in a glorious flame, or just die out with nothing but a whimper.

I'm sorry but you have no evidence that the vrms were the cause of death on the cards in that thread that took place over the period of four months.

An arrogant response and assumptions don't prove anything.

Electromigration is the key word you want if you care to further your education.

If that were the case would this not also be an issue with GTX 580, Mr. electrical engineer? You know, since electromigration has little to do with load or amperage.

[STEvil]

I'm sorry but you have no evidence that the vrms were the cause of death on the cards in that thread that took place over the period of four months.

An arrogant response and assumptions don't prove anything.



If that were the case would this not also be an issue with GTX 580, Mr. electrical engineer? You know, since electromigration has little to do with load or amperage.

Electromigration has everything to do with voltage and amperage, they are the direct cause of it. Didnt you know there are dead 580's as well? There are even dead 480's, and all of the dead cards point towards VRM issues since changing the VRM fixes dead cards, just ask the big benching guys who regularly frankenstien their cards.

[Ket]

AGAIN I'm going to point out I and numerous others were saying clock for clock the GTX480 is faster. For god sake, learn to read a post properly you'll save yourself a lot of embarressment.

^^ See quote readers.

now ur picking and choosing which 570 to compare to? LMFAO...please refer to post #91

Its comments like that that truely solidify your fail. You have nothing, its been proven the GTX480 is faster clock for clock endless times, and that has been the whole point. Clock for clock the 480 is faster, FACT.

I thought we were talking about the standard versions 480's and 570's cards.

480's and 570's weren't binned (as far as im aware) so whether its an overclocked one or not is irrelevant, its just luck whether you get a good clocker or not.

But if your talking about the 2.5gb evga 570 its even more FAIL than a normal one as:

A) It has the same memory bus so its just as slow as a normal one with the same clocks for most users.

B) £££

I have been, yes. pythonse on the other hand seems to keep changing his mind between a stock GTX570, factory OCd 570, and a 570 with a extra 1GB of vram (see quotes further down readers)

Looking through your link again, the tests are all pretty close, some with the 570 winning, and some with the 480 winning.

Given the fact that the clocks on the 570 are 732/1900 vs the 480 at 700/1401, I dont see how you still say the 570 is faster clock for clock. 32mhz faster stock core clock and a much higher shader clock, and the results are still extremely even shows otherwise.

You say fanboism to others, but honestly who is the real fanboy here? The facts have been posted here, even some by you that show a very even match when the 570 has a slight advantage by way of core and shader clocks, but also a slight disadvantage having a little less memory, but now you throw in a card with an extra 1gb or so of memory to add to it , which gives it an advantage straight across the board. Whats next, a 570 with built in ss phase change cooling against a stock 480 with fan set to auto?

If you take all this into account, plus the huge price drop on the 480 making it quite a bit cheaper, its hard to say the 570 is the better value, or the better choice. And nothing here has proved it to be all around faster than the older 480, escpecially at benching, which is one of the reasons the OP wanted the card in the first place. If he had posted "I am looking for a benching card with lower power consumption, that doesnt run very warm on stock cooling yet gives me respectable scores, and I dont mind paying more $ for it" then I think the opinions on the better card for him would be different

I wouldn't bother OC Nub, pythonse is clearly determined to be the ultimate retard not understanding the concept of clock for clock performance and changing his mind between a stock 570, factory OCd 570, and a 570 with a extra 1GB vRAM to try and say hes "right". Facts are facts, the GTX480 is faster clock for clock and has been proven... endlessly. (For most clear evidence readers see screenshots from HWbot showing a significantly lower clocked GTX480 scoring the same as a significantly higher clocked GTX570. Alternatively, see my link to Guru3D where a GTX480 and 570 were tested in Crysis 2 with DX11 and all the eye candy)

Thanks for that ... I guess unnecessary scaremongering in the earlier part of the thread then? any card is more liable to fail when heavily overclocked.

For my part I don't overclock GPU's just CPU's as flight sim is the main part of why I build performance PC's, current ones tend to be more CPU intensive.

Cheers.

It wasn't scaremongering, GTX570 VRMs have blown up for absolutely no reason with much more frequency than any other card. Just look around even these forums alone. Theres a fair few threads about it.

Bottom line: If you run the card stock you will probably be ok, OC a 570 though the VRMs WILL blow. The PWM circuitry is just insufficient. See below quotes.

Your 570's should be fine if not overclocked, the reason the 570's were dying was that they had too puny vregs for the speeds the cores can reach.

There were also failures at stock settings on reference cards. The failures were due to driver errors allowing the cards to utilize more of the GPU than what the VRM can support. All current drivers limit the performance of the GTX570 to keep them from dieing.

here's a 5 page thread for you to catch up on. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...t=dead+gtx+570

Electromigration has everything to do with voltage and amperage, they are the direct cause of it. Didnt you know there are dead 580's as well? There are even dead 480's, and all of the dead cards point towards VRM issues since changing the VRM fixes dead cards, just ask the big benching guys who regularly frankenstien their cards.

Hes not wrong, people. If memory serves electromigration is also the reason why you can do your sillicone more harm than good if you keep it too cold as well as the electrons can't flow as freely.

[pythonse]

[QUOTE=Ket;4905830]^^ See quote readers.
I wouldn't bother OC Nub, pythonse is clearly determined to be the ultimate retard
QUOTE]
ignorance coupled with arrogance is not a good thing..in fact thats probably u in that silly avatard u got

[pythonse]

btw...heres a lil note...admin if u allow him to say these things..i will flame him like no one can

[PiLsY]

Is the reason the reference 570's blow up not because they have 1/3 left off the VRM but only draw 1/5 less power? Thats why you dont see any dead 580's.

Personally id have to say if going with stock cooling youd have to get a non reference design for both cards. The standard 480 is noisy as hell when it spins over 70% and the 570's blow up. In that situation go for whichever is cheapest as theyre damn near identical performance wise when overclocked.

If watercooling go with a reference 480. Take heat out the equation and the clocks go way up (and the voltage comes down) on GF100 dies.


In that price bracket though (£200-£300) Id probably go with a pair of 1GB 460s, but thats just me.

[BababooeyHTJ]

Electromigration has everything to do with voltage and amperage, they are the direct cause of it. Didnt you know there are dead 580's as well? There are even dead 480's, and all of the dead cards point towards VRM issues since changing the VRM fixes dead cards, just ask the big benching guys who regularly frankenstien their cards.

You are jumping all over the place on this one.

You have provided no evidence whatsoever that the vast majority of GTX570s will suffer any ill effects from a mild voltage bump (under 1.1v) over any period of time.

Guess what, electronics can fail and anyone can get a lemon. The vast majority of people have been running their cards issue free. I think until you provide any real evidence that you are jumping to conclusions.

[STEvil]

You are jumping all over the place on this one.

You have provided no evidence whatsoever that the vast majority of GTX570s will suffer any ill effects from a mild voltage bump (under 1.1v) over any period of time.

Guess what, electronics can fail and anyone can get a lemon. The vast majority of people have been running their cards issue free. I think until you provide any real evidence that you are jumping to conclusions.

I am not jumping all over the place and in fact replied to each of your statements regarding dead cards. If you are having trouble with what I wrote you might try reading it a few more times.

I provided a link to a 5 page thread.

In that thread are links to driver revisions that cap performance of the card specifically to keep the VRM from melting down and if you bothered to keep pace with the rest of the forum you would have seen threads and reviews with the same issues and sections of the content dedicated solely to talk of the performance limiting at the release of both the 590 and the 570.

Guess what? The vast majority of electronic failure is due to electromigration. Did you know that static discharge can be a cause of electromigration? A "poor chip" that dies suddenly is most often due to a flaw in the manufacturing process. It only takes one flaw which induces electromigration to kill a CPU or GPU. VRM's can handle a flaw or two if they are built with certain tolerance specifications in mind. The GTX570 and 590 were not built with enough tolerance. Even another 5% extra tolerance may have avoided most of these issues for these cards.

As to providing real evidence, reference my previous "frankenstien" statement. Top end benchers have been doing it forever and as stated before, there are "dead" cards that have been brought back to life by swapping out the VRM.


Now, as to a slight voltage bump causing ill effect, it may not as amperage is what mostly causes heat due to resistance. In fact running a higher voltage with lower amperage may increase the life span of the VRM depending on how the VRM's circuitry is managed by the bios and drivers. For example 78A @ 1.1v is the same power as 71.5A @ 1.2v. However if the bios/driver monitors only amperage throughput to manage the VRM it may allow the consumption of up to 78A @ 1.2v which will create more heat than 78A @ 1.1v easily. Given a tight tolerance VRM such as the 570 and 590 have, this becomes a larger issue faster than a VRM like that of a GTX480 or even older generation cards which didnt require power management features at all for load cycles.

For added evaluation is the VRM MTBF load rating. Running a VRM at 90% capacity load will significantly shorten its lifespan vs the same VRM run at 80 to 85% capacity. Adding case (ambient air) and tcase (VRM casing) temperatures into the mix only increase the chance of running into a thermal cascade point on a VRM which is being used at near its maximum capacity, even if the load is cycled and not constant.

Honestly I would like to see video card testing done in 50 deg C hot boxes just like quality PSU reviews do. You would probably be surprised by how many will fail the test, let alone attempting it in a 40 deg C environment.



Ket - Please avoid calling people stupid and retards, it is a vacationable offense and even though Pythonse may deserve it, there's no need to say it.

[pythonse]

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1124326

[TJ TRICHEESE]

1) Your opening statement in that thread shows that you have majorly misunderstood what people have said here. clock for clock the GTX480 is faster. also it is a better deal as it has similar performance for £50 less

2) Some quotes from your thread:
"no overvolting"
"850 core. I'm sure it could go higher but that's as far as I want to push it. Never had to increase core past .988V"
"I've only ever had it as high as 850MHz"

3)READ CAREFULLY:
some 570's die, not the vast majority, usually the ones that have been heavily overclocked (not just 850 core)

[pythonse]

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=335506
http://semiaccurate.com/2010/02/17/n...and-unfixable/
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/31...3-tomshardware
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/30...0-worth-gtx480
let me know when u have enough information
your 480's in 4x sli barely surpass the 570 in 3x

[TJ TRICHEESE]

prices taken from the same website as eachother (the cheapest of both cards i could find)

480 - £147.80

570 - £183.06

Nice website; semiaccurate, we've heard great things about them over the years

also what is your second link supposed to tell us.

Ahh yes quad sli vs 3 way sli

They are not the same thing. My point being sli scaling becomes less and less efficient as more cards are added and most games don't support quad sli properly

[schoolslave]

Gaming (1920*1080), everyday use, overall better (cooler, quieter) card => GTX 570
Benchmarking, extreme overclocking, slightly faster (but more heat, power consumption, LOUD) => GTX 480

Concerning the VRMs, I think most manufacturers, and even eVGA on the new classified model, have beefed up the VRM section on the GTX 570.
Also, I think the whole issue about the VRMs has been vastly blown out of proportion.....

Also, I *believe* the OP stated that he likes to benchmark, in that case the GTX 480 is probably the better option.
If it was me, I would still go with the GTX 570.

[Wolf132]

Can this thread be closed already, the amount of trolling is unbelievable. And I think it's pretty obvious who I am referring to.

[STEvil]

Yes, thread closed and troll on vacation for personal insults and ignoring facts repeatedly.

[Vapor]

I just want to add that pythonse's behavior is completely uncalled for and unacceptable. He will get a second chance after an extended forum ban but he also permanently lost his posting privileges for the nVidia section.

There's no need to be disrespectful, aggressive, argumentative, to make things personal, or to threaten anything. If someone can't have a much better attitude than that, we don't want them here at all.

pythonse was the one banned today, but this should be a warning to everyone.