I have already asked wizard about a pwn and got this response:
Thank you for interesting in our product,sorry for the late reply, no login for few weekthe PWM feature will designed as an external module to connect between the pump and the motherboard.all existing user can enjoy the pwm feature with the module addon.the circuit is desiged, it need some fine tune and reliable test before final release.no ETA yet.
Surely one of the PCB's already has PWM integrated? (ala the mcp35x)
I don't need a "PWM controller" as such, just PWM IC for PWM compatibility.
I'm buying & modding (to some extent) a dedicated PWM controller device.
wizard1238/anyone? (below) Thank-you!
Originally Posted by TJ TRICHEESE
but doesn't the toshiba controller support pwm
Does it really? Please let it be true!
From a pure performance/efficiency stand-point, the Toshiba's considered the best so far, right?
I was hoping if pwm is part of the pcb that's removed, that the ideal pcb one's swapping-in would return that functionality.
I wonder if a removal & a swap-in would be much harder to do on a mcp35x built into the MCR Drive?
Hmm, maybe it's time to go buy a heatgun and a soldering-iron
Admittedly I'd prefer someone more experienced to do the job, & I'd pay them for their labour/expenses.
But I doubt that'll be an option....
I can't find the post now, but he noted that he thought you might get the Toshiba controller to work with PWM if you installed the right resistor/capacitor to convert PWM signal to voltage. Later he noted something about a pwm board he is developing. So I would say it's possible for someone with an electronics background.
I'm not that person..so I'd wait until he has the PWM extras or instructions ironed out for us.
Last edited by Martinm210; 06-05-2011 at 06:17 AM.
Thanks Martin,
Do you know if he plans to integrate that PWM functionality into the PCB boards he's selling in his DIY kits?
I'd personally prefer that much more than some separate, "dongle-like" device.
Even if it tuns out that this is one of the things he's planned...
Decoupling/dampening my MCP35X is going to be trickier than for other MCP35X owners
Mine's built into the side of my Rad! (part of the AIO rad/res/pump known as the MCR220 Drive rev.2)
Then again because of the way it's mounted, it may already be decoupled to some extent?
The cooling heatsink (but no lift?) you linked to earlier may still be possible.
I think the hot end of the pump is exposed to the air, not joined to the rad.
Last edited by jalyst; 06-05-2011 at 06:45 AM.
I'm struggling to find/remember what was said, but I did find the old post he noted on the possible PWM functionality of the Toshiba (I have not tested this myself though):Thanks Martin,
Do you know if he plans to integrate that PWM functionality into the PCB boards he's selling in his DIY kits?
I'd personally prefer that much more than some separate, "dongle-like" device.
Even if it tuns out that this is one of the things he's planned...
Decoupling/dampening my MCP35X is going to be trickier than for other MCP35X owners
Mine's built into the side of my Rad! (part of the AIO rad/res/pump known as the MCR220 Drive rev.2)
Then again because of the way it's mounted, it may already be decoupled to some extent?
The cooling heatsink (but no lift?) you linked to earlier may still be possible.
I think the hot end of the pump is exposed to the air, not joined to the rad.
Not sure I understand the 35X comments, you are not going to remove a perfectly good working 35X board are you? I would not do that, I would only use these replacement boards for burned pumps.Use motherboard PWM to control the Toshiba PCB modded DDC pump speed seems very simple
Only one resistor and capactior can do the trick!
anybody have time can test and let us know if it work
Reference: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/e...tes/00538c.pdf
The radiator version shouldn't matter other than you'll have more noise issues to deal with than a stand alone pump since the radiator flavor can't be decoupled the same.
Last edited by Martinm210; 06-05-2011 at 07:15 AM.
Interesting thanks!
Hopefully someone is able to explain how we might enable PWM functionality on one of the PCB's floating about out there!?
I'd be willing to sacrifice my MCP35X, I'll have 2x soon...
But it may be best to give it to someone else to do the mod, as I don't have the gear/experience.
I'll have a "spare one" soon....Not sure I understand the 35X comments, you are not going to remove a perfectly good working 35X board are you? I would not do that, I would only use these replacement boards for burned pumps.
Hasn't it been demonstrated that some of these alternative PCB's offer appreciable performance/efficiency over that used by the 35X?*
Could've sworn I've already read that....
The only big downer so far is that none seem to do PWM, once added we'd have an even better pump than the MCP35X!
For the folk that are prepared to "have a crack" at swapping-in the new PCB themselves of course
I'd be prepared to have a go...
Once PWM's integrated & we have a PCB that's proven as better performing & more efficient than the MCP35X's PCB.
And once there's excellent community doco/instructions, & once I have all the gear for the job!
RE cooling & de-coupling of the MCP35X (apologies, rest of this is OT)...The radiator version shouldn't matter other than you'll have more noise issues to deal with than a stand alone pump since the radiator flavor can't be decoupled the same.
I had a closer look at the swiftech site & am double-checking with them.
But I think I'll be able to use their heatsink & fan!? (probably won't bother w/the fan)
Doesn't look like the sound dampener is usable w/the MCRx20 Drive Rev.2 though
Still, I'm guessing the way the mcp35x is built into the rad...
Is inherently more dampened than a stand-alone mcp35x, if an owner hasn't bothered w/any dampening?
*when they're all compared at top-speed, which is what non-PWM's always run at of course.
Last edited by jalyst; 06-05-2011 at 09:25 AM.
You can implement PWM in the Toshiba controller if you know what you are doing.
http://www.toshiba-components.com/mo...20_080424_.pdf
Check page 6 and 10.
If I have time I will put together a schematic for you that should work, but I have a feeling if you wait 2 weeks or so you won't even have to go through the trouble...
In raw power the Toshiba is extreme that's for sure, but it doesn't keep up with the Laing DDC3 series PCB in terms of noise. It's more buzzy like the older DDC1/2 pumps are.
Check out the videos, you'll see what I mean.
Yeah, heatsink never hurts, but I think it's most important on higher flows/lower restriction. I'm working on that testing now, but high flows is where heat comes into play.RE cooling & de-coupling of the MCP35X (apologies, rest of this is OT)...
I had a closer look at the swiftech site & am double-checking with them.
But I think I'll be able to use their heatsink & fan!? (probably won't bother w/the fan)
Doesn't look like the sound dampener is usable w/the MCRx20 Drive Rev.2 though
Still, I'm guessing the way the mcp35x is built into the rad...
Is inherently more dampened than a stand-alone mcp35x, if an owner hasn't bothered w/any dampening?
*when they're all compared at top-speed, which is what non-PWM's always run at of course.
I also have no personal experience with the Drive series noise levels, I'm just going on the assumption that it's solid mounted and I have see a few threads about noise complaints. The large mass should help to some degree similar to bay reservoirs and large mass there.
Sweet!<SNIP>, but I have a feeling if you wait 2 weeks or so you won't even have to go through the trouble...
Will someone be selling these PCB's with PWM enabled in 2wks?
Can you elaborate please!
It'll still be tricky removing my current PCB, & soldering-in one of these.
So hopefully there's good guides/doco about (this thread's not too bad)!
Cool look forward to reading your findings.
Yeah that was my point, the entire MCR drive would act as a dampening mechanism of sorts, like the bay reservoirs.I also have no personal experience with the Drive series noise levels, I'm just going on the assumption that it's solid mounted and I have see a few threads about noise complaints. The large mass should help to some degree similar to bay reservoirs and large mass there.
Of course not ideal, but possibly better than a stand-alone mcp35x, that's had no thought put into it WRT to mounting etc.
And yeah PWM helps too, when swiftech sends you the correct freakin MCRx20 Drive revision!
Last edited by jalyst; 06-06-2011 at 07:44 PM.
Sorry I can't go into more information as of now since I don't have any more. As for a guide to install the PCB board follow the link below to where I posted a full video guide to do this.Sweet!
Will someone be selling these PCB's with PWM enabled in 2wks?
Can you elaborate please!
It'll still be tricky removing my current PCB, & soldering-in one of these.
So hopefully there's good guides/doco about (this thread's not too bad)!
Cool look forward to reading your findings.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=271839
So what makes you so sure someone is releasing a PCB w/PWM enabled/integrated?
Thanks, will do, if/when something does become available!?As for a guide to install the PCB board follow the link below to where I posted a full video guide to do this.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=271839
I keep in contact with DIYINHK regarding this board and future products since I am interested as well. I have made suggestions and I know a new revision of the board will be out in about 2 weeks. My guess is PWM will be added either built in or individually.
The Toshiba chip supports PWM. If you understand electrical designs it shouldn't take very long to build something that could be added.
So I never actually did install the DIYINHK board since noise goes up
Though I have been interested in controlling my pump via motherboard since the new sandybridges don't work too well with S3 and so my computer is on 24/7. What was posted about making the PWM signal into analog seems to work. Simple google search returns: http://www.makingthings.com/wiki/analog-output
This site explains how it works. It looks like all he'd have to do is change the circuit board a bit to allow a resistor and capacitor to be soldered on. Then you could just attach it to the motherboard. The PWM Signal that is.
^ A "mea culpa" on my part here, Swiftech did send me the correct rev2.And yeah PWM helps too, when swiftech sends you the correct freakin MCRx20 Drive revision!
There was a rev2b released in Jan. that looks slightly diff, but apparently has no affect on performance/functionality.
That's where the confusion slipped in, I do have the rev.2 & all the improvements that entailed.
Sorry Gabe for making claims before they're substantiated, or even at all until the issue was resolved between us.
I do agree though that there needs to be clearer identification of new revisions, so this confusion doesn't occur again.
Last edited by jalyst; 06-06-2011 at 07:23 PM.
Yeah but WRT raw performance & efficiency it's substantially better right?In raw power the Toshiba is extreme that's for sure, but it doesn't keep up with the Laing DDC3 series PCB in terms of noise. It's more buzzy like the older DDC1/2 pumps are. Check out the videos, you'll see what I mean.
I can't find where I read this now, do you know where there's data demonstrating that
Thanks for the further thoughts mate,
This posts suggest he's releasing an external module.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=251
I don't understand why he'd want to do that...
Particularly since it's been determined that it's possible to enable it on the PCB.
Surely the better option would be to enable it on the PCB?
Last edited by jalyst; 06-06-2011 at 07:46 PM.
I don't know if it will be separate or on board, but I can see good reason for wanting it separately. If it is a standalone controller you then have the ability to control anything with it. Any pump and any fan. To me that has value. Who knows many it will be released as an independent controller along with on the new revision of the board. We just have to wait and see.
Separate PWM circuitry board .. i wonder if it won't be similar as to separate pwm to analog fan controllers and analog or pwm fans .. as in of course such controllers will be able to regulate with such from motherboard/bios/software depending on load .. but there is possible more noise because of not synchronised PWM pulses with rpms (IIRC there was issue of needing to switch off pulses for correct rpm readings, and also if pwm frequency is relatively low) and probably one won't see lower minimum rpm range usually made possible by PWM. Imho direct pwm support in controller board (if it's possible to implement with pump controllers on these replacement boards) would be better solution.
I might be wrong of course, as my knowledge on electronics is veeery vague at best.
Here is a comparison of the Toshiba on a DDC3 series rotor vs a DDC3.25 (Dashed Purple) motor I did a while back.Yeah but WRT raw performance & efficiency it's substantially better right?
I can't find where I read this now, do you know where there's data demonstrating that
i just purchase 2 10w version today...
this gonna be fun
dual 360 rads on lianli A05NB worklog
Yeah that's exactly what I'm worried about....
If it's some kind of PWM to LVC bridge, rather than direct PWM control, then it's not the solution I want.
You'd still have all the inefficiency/heat assoc/w LVC*...
And because it's LVC masquerading as PWM, you wouldn't have the finer-grained control one can get with PWM.
Not that you'd necessarily need that finer grained control for a pump!?
*linear voltage control
Sweet, thanks mate!
Look like it performs waaaay better!
Probably waaaay nosier too!?!
The Toshiba is a PWM control, but is varied based on a linear signal. In this case it is completely different than running a fan PWM vs linear. You can still run the pump down to 10% or whatever the slowest pump speed is. The rpm reading is controlled by the controller which is PWM, so it will still report back rpms.
In terms of the heat and inefficiency of linear control, all that is happening is a smoothing of the PWM signal to look like a linear voltage. The signal is also something like 20ma at 5v so heat is a non issue.
If anything there is more noise from PWM vs Linear, but PWM is easier to control. Good thing I have all gentle typhoons so any heat/inefficiencies are down to ~3 watts for 7 fans. For those 3 watts, I get less noise. I think its worth the trade off.
^ Hmm, doesn't smell quite right based on what I've read gurus in this thread write:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/s...d.php?t=641111
But I'm not terribly knowledgeable in the area, so I'll take your word for it!
I just hope we get more info. about the approach DIYIHNK has decided to take soon!
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