Japan quakes

**dctokyo** · 03-12-2011, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by saaya

0_o what kind of a nuclear plant is this exactly?

The Fukushima reactors are contained Boiling Water Reactors that are not at all like less safe types like the reactors that were in Chernobyl or Pressurized Water Reactors. Radioactivity has already leaked from the plant and more will undoubtedly be released but not to the extent or in an explosive form with major fallout a la Chernobyl

**anubis** · 03-12-2011, 03:20 AM

Saaya - IIRC the Powerplants are built for 8.2 - this was an 8.9 (336 megatons TNT equivalent), some would say this to be a force majeure..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale

edit: i believe that Japan is THE BEST prepared country for earthquakes/tsunami. If this had happened anywhere else we`d be counting the lost in hundreds of thousands.

**anubis** · 03-12-2011, 03:45 AM

Just checked Deutche Welle news, germany is also sending SAR with canine units. I believe all help is needed, even for a country as strong as Japan.

**FischOderAal** · 03-12-2011, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by anubis

Saaya - IIRC the Powerplants are built for 8.2 - this was an 8.9 (336 megatons TNT equivalent), some would say this to be a force majeure..

This is no exact science. I doubt every 8.2 earth quake is the same

If nuclear power plants are made to withstand a 8.2 earth quake, I don't think a 8.8 earth quake makes much of a difference, since you engineer everything with safety measures. In mechanical engineering everything is 1.5 to 3.0 (iIrc) times stronger than it theoretically needs to be to cope with unforseen cases. And I think for nuclear power plants these numbers are higher

**anubis** · 03-12-2011, 03:48 AM

8.2 vs 8.9 is 7x more powerful IIRC

EQ of 9 on richter is 10x the power of 8.

edit: infromation is, that the core is intact - the radioactive material is contained. not official. Fingers crossed/knock on wood etc.

**FischOderAal** · 03-12-2011, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by anubis

8.2 vs 8.9 is 7x more powerful IIRC

EQ of 9 on richter is 10x the power of 8.

I wasn't aware of that.

Originally Posted by en.wikipedia.org

Because of the logarithmic basis of the scale, each whole number increase in magnitude represents a tenfold increase in measured amplitude; in terms of energy, each whole number increase corresponds to an increase of about 31.6 times the amount of energy released, and each increase of 0.2 corresponds to a doubling of the energy released.

**dctokyo** · 03-12-2011, 04:00 AM

Japan nuclear plant update: Area residents told to stay indoors, not drink tap water and to cover faces with wet towels or masks

**natu** · 03-12-2011, 04:02 AM

Hi,

According to NHK World the meltdown be going.

Let's hope thats not true

**anubis** · 03-12-2011, 04:08 AM

Lets hope its just a precaution... still hope the inner core is intact.

**[200]** · 03-12-2011, 04:18 AM

This persons twitter seems to be good.

**ex.treme** · 03-12-2011, 04:19 AM

I condole with all people affected this nature element.

The huge earthquake, than tsunami and now nuclear danger.

I wish you all best and pray for hope and better days.

**anubis** · 03-12-2011, 04:22 AM

Phew..lets hope its correct.

**anubis** · 03-12-2011, 04:29 AM

Unfortunately Japan has NO natural gas/coal etc. So they must use whats available - nuclear is the only way for such densly populated country.

Solar isnt an option - i think. Geothermal? Tidal? Most likely wont provide enough.

Now, please stop this. Not the place or time.

**RPGWiZaRD** · 03-12-2011, 04:30 AM

I usually never pray as I'm not a very religious person but this time I did and hope all nuclear plants will be safe, they SHOULDN'T need to suffer anymore than they've already done.

**saaya** · 03-12-2011, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by dctokyo

The Fukushima reactors are contained Boiling Water Reactors that are not at all like less safe types like the reactors that were in Chernobyl or Pressurized Water Reactors. Radioactivity has already leaked from the plant and more will undoubtedly be released but not to the extent or in an explosive form with major fallout a la Chernobyl

well thats great, but why dont we build reactors that dont blow up to begin with? lol...

i mean seriously... what kind of security systems did they use exactly?

Originally Posted by anubis

Saaya - IIRC the Powerplants are built for 8.2 - this was an 8.9 (336 megatons TNT equivalent), some would say this to be a force majeure..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richter_magnitude_scale

edit: i believe that Japan is THE BEST prepared country for earthquakes/tsunami. If this had happened anywhere else we`d be counting the lost in hundreds of thousands.

yeah probably... but clearly not enough...
since humantiy meassured and recorded qukes there has been a scale 9 quake in chile already, and weve only been doing this for 200 years or so... which is nothing in the bigger scale of things...

its not like nobody expected a quake this strong to happen...
everybody knew it WOULD happen, its just that nobody knew WHEN it would happen...

im not an engineer, but why would it be so hard to build a plant that would rather fall apart than cause a meltdown? you cant build an indestructable plant obviously, but why cant they build a plant that falls apart and radiation escapes, but radioactive material does NOT.. instead these plants keep the the material under high pressure and at high temps until it blows up?
sounds weird...

not saying thats whats going on but it sounds that way from the little news i can find about it...

**Gyrock** · 03-12-2011, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by miahallen

WOW...I'm trying to read through the thread now guys (it'll take me a few more minutes

)....but before that, I wanted to say thanks a buch for all the well wishes

I just got net access back a few minutes ago....

Here is the update I just posted for my family on FB

Good to hear from Miah-san!!
Your family are also safe...Very good news!
Thanks for posting here.

**Origin_Unknown** · 03-12-2011, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by saaya

well thats great, but why dont we build reactors that dont blow up to begin with? lol...

i mean seriously... what kind of security systems did they use exactly?

if you could design a system to count for every eventuality then you would be a very rich man... you best get started.

**scooter.jay** · 03-12-2011, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by miahallen

WOW...I'm trying to read through the thread now guys (it'll take me a few more minutes

)....but before that, I wanted to say thanks a buch for all the well wishes

I just got net access back a few minutes ago....

Here is the update I just posted for my family on FB

Good to see you are ok miah

Glad you and family are safe

**anubis** · 03-12-2011, 04:46 AM

Most likely nothing will withstand full blast of 9+ earthquake on richter scale. You just cant build strong enough sometimes - the cost would go through the roof. The nature has no limits, just things we havent experienced yet.

**Don_Dan** · 03-12-2011, 04:58 AM

All the best wishes to the people in Japan!

I'm glad to hear Team Japan and miahallen are safe.

Originally Posted by saaya

well thats great, but why dont we build reactors that dont blow up to begin with? lol...

i mean seriously... what kind of security systems did they use exactly?

Sascha, it's just not possible, you can never get a fail safe system, as someone else already said everything is built with a higher security level but an earthquake with a strength of almost 9 on the Richter scale is incredibly strong.

In fact, I don't think this is the right place and time to discuss about reactor safety, I'm sure Japanese engineers are doing their best to keep harm away from the people, all we can do is hope for the best and pray for them.

**saaya** · 03-12-2011, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown

if you could design a system to count for every eventuality then you would be a very rich man... you best get started.

just a matter of cost, and i dont think its astronomical...

and sorry, when it comes to preventing melt downs these costs are not only justified but should be mandatory... even with HUGE safety spendings nuclear fission is still very affordable when compared to other energy sources!

btw, its official, japan admits reactor2 in fukushima1 has melted down...

**saaya** · 03-12-2011, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Don_Dan

Sascha, it's just not possible, you can never get a fail safe system, as someone else already said everything is built with a higher security level but an earthquake with a strength of almost 9 on the Richter scale is incredibly strong.

In fact, I don't think this is the right place and time to discuss about reactor safety, I'm sure Japanese engineers are doing their best to keep harm away from the people, all we can do is hope for the best and pray for them.

true...
best wishes to japan! hope all goes well!

EDIT: oh the irony...
this plant was built in the 1960s and was originally supposed to be shut down... one week ago...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushi...ar_Power_Plant

**RPGWiZaRD** · 03-12-2011, 05:11 AM

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nhk-world-tv - NHK-TV stream in english.

**FischOderAal** · 03-12-2011, 05:15 AM

Here's another link, provided by CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/video/flashLi...stream3&hpt=T1

**saaya** · 03-12-2011, 05:26 AM

cnn link works, thanks...

outside fukushima radiation levels are almost 10.000 times stronger than considered safe... definitively a melt down :S
Ceasium and Iodine detected outside of the reactor... :S

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