Build log: Project Sandy Obsidian

[Atragon]

Somewhat of a continuation from my thread in the main Liquid Cooling forum (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=264246), I'm building a Sandy Bridge system in a 700D case to replace my aging Opteron 165 that's served me faithfully for the last 4 years.

My goal for this system is to have a screamingly fast silent system to last me for another 3+ years. With that said, the hardware I'm going with is as follows:

i7-2600K
Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD7
4X2GB Corsair XMS3
Zotac GeForce 580GTX
OCZ 120GB Vertex 2 SSD
Samsung 2TB HDD
Lite-On Blueray burner
Corsair 850AX power supply



Based off of the advice received from forum members, I'm looking at the following watercooling hardware to make things nice and quiet:

CPU Block: Swiftech Apogee XT. I was trying to decide between this and the EK Supreme HF, but the mounting system won me over in the end.
GPU Block: EK 580GTX Full Cover block
Rad: Swiftech MCR320 or MCR420 for the top of the case, MCR220 or MCR320 (if I can fit it) for bottom of case.
Fans: Gentle Typhoon AP-15s if I can get them, AP-14s if I can't, not sure if I need to find a good 140mm fan to replace stock ones or not.
Pump: Swiftech MCP35X
Reservoir: DD Monsoon bay res.
Fittings: Compression Fittings (Bitspower or Fesser most likely, only difference AFAIK is price, right?) for blocks, pump, and reservoir, and a t-line leading to drain plug.
Tubing: Clear tubing 3/8"ID 5/8"OD (Primochill LRT or Fesser).
Fluid: Distilled water + PT Nuke and/or Kill Coil
Fan Control: ???

My first priority is to get the new hardware up and running in a temporary case to make sure everything works nicely, and then move it over into the 700D once I've got the watercooling setup. Before I can do that however, I still need to nail down a few missing tidbits of information:

Will 3/8" ID 5/8" OD compression fittings work on the Apogee XT, or do I need to use an angled fitting or barbs instead? (I would like to avoid flipping the intake plate if I can avoid it.)

This question can alternatively be phrased as what is the overall diameter of the various 3/8" ID 5/8" OD compression fittings? I believe I can figure out clearance by referring to the drawings Swiftech has posted.

What is my best option for fan control and system monitoring? I would ideally like a solution such as the t-balancer, a TMS-200, an aquareo, or similar since being able to monitor everything in software would be a definite plus. I could, however, use something like a Lamptron FC Touch instead, however my selection seems a bit limited as I am trying for a very minimalist look for the front panel and a controller with lots of knobs would spoil the effect.

In short, I need to do some more research on this point before making up my mind, in the meanwhile, I'll have to live with this for cooling

[Johnny87au]

subb'd

[hirsch]

Can't wait to see that UD7 in action!

[Atragon]

Can't wait to see that UD7 in action!

Unfortunately, the action is going to have stay fairly restrained for now as the Sonata III isn't exactly the best case in the world to use for overclocking.

Having said that, here are some preliminary numbers to wet your appetite.

On my old rig, 3dMark Vantage:
3DMark Score: 5950.26 3DMarks
Graphics Score: 6653.55
CPU Score: 4517.69
Jane Nash: 19.1 FPS
New Calico: 19.89 FPS
AI Test: 562.88 operations/s
Physics Test: 7.55 operations/s
Texture Fill N/A
Color Fill N/A
Pixel Shader N/A
Stream Out N/A
GPU Particles N/A

On my old rig /w 580 GTX, 3dMark 11
3DMark Score: P2132
Graphics score: 4632
Physics Score: 838
Combined Score: 781
GraphicsTest1: 16.98 FPS
GraphicsTest2: 25.98 FPS
GraphicsTest3: 34.61 FPS
GraphicsTest4: 13.83 FPS
PhysicsTest: 2.66 FPS
CombinedTest: 3.63 FPS

On the new rig, 3dMark Vantage:
3DMark Score 29608.87 3DMarks
Graphics Score 25139.4
CPU Score 63451.55
Jane Nash 75.07 FPS
New Calico 72.16 FPS
AI Test 3252.57 operations/s
Physics Test 222.9 operations/s
Texture Fill N/A
Color Fill N/A
Pixel Shader N/A
Stream Out N/A
GPU Particles N/A
Perlin Noise N/A

On the new rig, 3dMark 11:
3DMark Score P6092
Graphics score 5822
Physics Score 8357
Combined Score 5757
GraphicsTest1 25.21 FPS
GraphicsTest2 26.46 FPS
GraphicsTest3 37.0 FPS
GraphicsTest4 18.69 FPS
PhysicsTest 26.53 FPS
CombinedTest 26.78 FPS

Unfortunately, I didn't think to save ORB links. Also, the results page contains the caveat that the drivers aren't approved (I'm running the new beta drivers from the 4th), and on my new rig, that GPU physx is enabled (note, I just left all settings at default).

[Johnny87au]

wow the new pc is killing your old one using 3dm11!

[Atragon]

Yeah, I'm kind of impressed by the gains from going to the newer architecture. I can't wait to start overclocking it.

Also, I heard back from Gabe at swiftech about the spacing of the inlet/outlet on the Apogee XT, and unfortunately, it's 21.2mm. This means that the bitspower 5/8" OD fittings won't work as according to Penguins, they have an OD of 21.92mm.

I need to track down ODs for Feser and Enzotech fittings to see if they might fit.

I'm also starting to lean towards an Aquaero, but want to wait until the new one that Shoggy is posting about is released, I suppose I can live with loud fans in the interim if necessary.


Edit: Unfortunately, Enzotech fittings weigh in at 22mm, and while I can't find a solid number for their 5/8" OD fittings, Feser's 1/2" OD fittings have a diameter of 20mm, so I really doubt 5/8" fittings would fit.

I'm thinking about using thin-walled tubing to and from the CPU block and thickwalled everywhere else for kink resistance.

[kroks]

45° adapter or rotate the inlet plate
don't worry you won't lose that much flow ^^

[Atragon]

I might be able to get by with a single 45 degree rotary, and a normal compression fitting on the inlet port, the bitspower rotary fittings have a shaft diameter of 18mm.

22mm/2 + 18mm/2 = 20mm, leaving me with 1.2mm of space between the two fittings. Not a lot of space, but enough, in theory.

The other ideas that I'm toying with are hiding most of the tubing to/from the rads behind the motherboard tray, Dazmode did it for their 800D build, and I think it would look better than running a tube all the way along the top of the case right in plain sight.

I suspect I'll take some time and toy around with possible routings in Paint to figure things out. I can afford to take my time here as the system is up and running in the Sonata III for the moment (though limited on the OC for cooling reasons).

In terms of WC Parts, here's where I am right now:
Apogee XT
MCP35X
MCR420
MCR220
EK-FC580 Nickel Plated
10 ft Primochill Primoflex Pro LRT Clear 3/8" ID 5/8" OD
6 Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-15 or AP-14
Either DD Monsoon bay res, or Swiftech MCRES tucked away somewhere (bay res is definitely sexier, MCRES is slightly more stealth)
1 T fitting for drain line
1 plug for drain line
12 fittings (2 each, 2x Rad, CPU WB, GPU WB, Res, Pump)
Min of 1 45 degree fitting (CPU WB)

To round out the list of stuff, I have a few more questions that I need to find answers to before I can go and pull the trigger on the loop.

While I really want to do compression fittings from a looks perspective, I'm not putting a window in the case, and I could cut fitting costs in half by going with barbs (pair of barbs for under $6 and $7ish vs single compressions for $6-8). Is there any reason why going barbs is a bad idea relative to compressions? (Note, I would very much be using hose clamps)
If I were to put a single temperature sensor in the loop, where would the best place to put it be? What about a second sensor, does it make sense to include a second sensor elsewhere?
For a flow sensor, I assume I could place it anywhere in the loop, right?
As a follow up to the last two questions, any recommendations for brands of temperature and flow sensors, or are they all roughly created equal? I'm tentatively planning on an aquaero.

[Atragon]

I am this close to pulling the trigger on an order from NCIX, all the watercooling components less fittings will qualify for cheap express shipping (adding the fittings pushes me over the weight limit for express shipping, and regular shipping would cost about as much as the cheap express).

I'll sleep on it, but I think I'll order the rads, blocks, pump, fans, and tubing from them, and figure out what I'm going to do for fittings separately.

[Johnny87au]

Well i go for compressions because of the bling they bring to the loop, for me barbs are old school and after using compressions i'd never go back kinda make the build look cheapish , If your not using a window you should of just gotten a Bench setup woud look quite slick mate!. As for the sensor i'd stick it after the rad as that would give you the best temp readings..

[Atragon]

Thank you for the input Johnny, I'll ponder the actual total cost of barbs versus compressions, and see what I arrive at I suppose.

While I have seen some very nice looking bench setups, it wouldn't fit my space unfortunately, my computer desk is filled by a pair of monitors, and I don't have anywhere else that I could put it close by, out of the way, and easy to get at for when I need to put a disc in the drive.

Also, I prefer an entirely enclosed system as it's a bit harder to damage accidentally. WRT to a window, I'm not planning one ATM, but I might change my mind later, I think I've still got a sheet of plexi kicking around from a failed build years ago.

Also, while sticking the temperature after the rad would give me the lowest water temps, and letting me gauge the delta T between water and CPU block, wouldn't sticking one in the res best let me gauge the delta T between water and air?

On a side note, assuming an aquaero can deal with two-wire temperature sensors (I know the BigNG with SensorHub can, but I'm a bit apprehensive about using a product that the manufacturer no longer supports), Bitspower sensor plugs seam reasonably cheap, so sticking 2 in the loop doesn't seem that bad either, and then I could actually figure out the heat output of the loop if I knew the flowrate...

[penguins]

The cost difference is quite a bit once you get up to a bunch of fittings. if you have only a few spots the cost difference is only so much.


The first WC build i had Koolance Barbs and Worm Clamps! i hated it!
Second had crappy Comps, I hated it!
Third build BP Compressions and i <3 them.
This new build i'm working on has barbs and compressions depending on what the components are.

My #1 pretty = barbs with no clamps ( course use at your own risk and even then... a quiet computer is paranoia enough let alone one that might have actually leaked lol )
#2 Compressions
#3 Barbs with simple nice looking clamps.

After recent examination of my BP Compression fitting to measure for you I was kind of scared of them.. there really isn't much keeping these compression fittings on the tube.

[Utnorris]

Can't you change the plate on the XT to accommodate the bigger compression fittings?

[Atragon]

Can't you change the plate on the XT to accommodate the bigger compression fittings?

I could, but for asthetic reasons (kind of silly given that there won't be a window for now at least), I'd really rather not.

[Atragon]

Pulled the trigger on the blocks, pump, rads, tubing, and fans. NCIX is showing stock of Gentle Typhoon AP-15s, which is what pushed me over the edge into ordering now.

[Johnny87au]

Woot , now its just a matter of assembling the beast

[Atragon]

Woot , now its just a matter of assembling the beast

Almost, I've still got a few things left to get, fittings, reservoir, rad grills, intake filter, kill coil, and possibly fan extensions. But you're right, once the stuff from NCIX arrives, I can get started on putting things together.

[mit78]

some pictures?

[Atragon]

I'll get some pics up later today of the system up and running in its temporary home, real excitement gets to wait for the WC gear to arrive next week.

As mentioned, a few pics to tide you over, what it looks like in its temporary home, and some HyperPi action.



I'm actually pleasently surprised with how cool running the 2600K actually is, even in a case with such relatively poor airflow as a Sonata. I'm loving the AX850 power supply as well, the fan doesn't turn on until a certain thermal load is reached, which means that at idle it shuts off completely. If not for the Tricool and the HSF on the 580GTX, the computer would be near silent at idle, as it is, it's just very quiet, and ramps up under load as the CPU fan (a Scythe Kaze PWM fan), the GPU fan, and the PSU fan start to ramp up. This will all change soon enough. I'm expecting my order from NCIX to arrive in the next couple of days, then I can get started on the modding and figuring out what fittings I need and getting them ordered.

[Johnny87au]

now pics with the loop all tied up

[Atragon]

Unfortunately, I have both good news, bad news, and a question...

The good news, my order arrived from NCIX today, the EK FC waterblock and Swiftech Apogee XT look sweet, and I did, in fact, manage to get my hands on 6 AP-15s for my rads.



The bad news, the baggie for the MCR220's screws comitted suicide and let the screws escape into the box, I'm not sure if that's the cause or not, but there is a big chip in the finish on one of the end tanks of the 220.



The questions is, is this normal?



By this, I'm refering to the rust coloured areas visible on the fins of both the MCR220 and 420s, and on the end wall of the MCR420. I'm kind of concerned since I don't recall seeing any pics showing similar discolouration before, and I don't want to make a potentially expensive mistake by not taking action if I need to. (The flash makes it look slightly worse than it really is.)

Regarding the paint chip on the 220, I could touch it up myself, but I doubt it would be a perfect touchup, and it would probably bug me, when combined with the discolouration, I'm wondering if I need to think about an RMA.

Can anyone offer some insight?

Thank you in advance.

[Johnny87au]

Paint chip is nothing could just be packaging handling.. just touch it up like you mentioned, As for the rust doesnt seem all that bad tbh, my 360gtx came like that.. just give it a big flush and see what the outcome is..

[Aphex_Tom_9]

that's not rust, that's the color of the fins, they just weren't painted that throughly.

[JaredC01]

Copper doesn't rust, so I'm going to have to agree with Aphex_Tom_9 on the lack of paint. That may actually work out better as far as performance goes since the copper is exposed (and therefore has no insulator holding heat in), though it may oxidize over time.

As far as the chip goes, dunno if it's normal, but it looks like the whole paint on the radiator was a bit too thin. If you're concerned with touching it up, I'd say just tape off the fins and repaint it all.

Also, is the rad going to be in a location where either of the issues will be visible? If not I'd say to 'set it and forget it' as Ronco would say.

[Church]

Oxidising or darkening of exposed copper usually is on surface only, it won't progress very deeply, affecting only looks, not thermal efficiency. Though looks may be very important for somebody aswell