HTPC WC Case Needed - Fortress Vs. Lian Li Vs. ???

[esuyengh]

Since no one has replied, I am thinking the overly long nature of my post is reducing the number of viable replies. So here are my primary questions up front, so you don't have to read the rest of the post unless you just want to:

• Has anyone actually fit a 120.2 rad at the bottom of a Fortress F-02 without any modding?
• Has anyone fit a card like a 460GTX into the PCI-E riser cards that come with some of the smaller HTPC cases without cooling issues?
• Anyone know of a Flex PSU with a wattage around or above 500W?

Well, I've been sucked back into the "game" after 2.5 to 3 years of not upgrading my computer. Part of my setup died , and with the potential release of Sandy Bridge and my own purchase of a Panny 3DTV to use partially as a HTPC "monitor" , all the signs point me to an upgrade. Despite being a little reluctant, I don't want to half-a** it, as that is not my style. Since I have been out of it for a while, I need advice.

So for some background, my current setup is housed in an old Lian-Li V1000B that I modded up the wazoo. Basically, I cut out the hard drive cages, cut a giant hole in the bottom of the case that matches up to the fan opening shape of a Thermochill PA120.2, cut a hole at the top of the case for a T-line filler, and cut two holes right at the angled base near the 5.25 drive bays. I slapped on grommets all over the cut edges to make them nice and rubbery. So the entire bottom portion is dedicated to radiator, fans, and psu. It worked well, I still like it, but the thing isn't quiet by any measure.

That is partially due to my fans, Panaflo M1A's. But it is also due to the fact that it is not really vibration dampened. The pump makes the whole case hum. The DVD burner makes the thing rattle if it hits full speed, etc. This is no longer acceptable as it is part of a media system and not just a dedicated PC.

So, I am looking for a new case and will relegate the Lian-Li to my server room, aka the basement.

Here are the criteria I have for the new case:

1. Quiet; not just sort of quiet, QUIET
2. Not massive; you will see in my choices that I prefer mid-towers or horizontal desktops at this stage
3. Smaller is better (no "that's what she said" jokes please)
4. Sleek; bling is bad and tacky; not just IMO, just fact...sorry Ricers...
5. Nice if it can handle/fit a watercooling setup for just a CPU loop without serious modding

So with that list, I have from my research narrowed my short list down to:

• Lian-Li PC-C32, PC-C36Muse, PC-C50, PC-X500FX
• Silverstone Fortress FT-02, Fortress FT-03, LaScala SST-LC02
• ???

No single one of those cases fits all of my criteria. So I have a ton of questions; hope some of you can help.

PC-C36 is one of my favorites in look, but has anyone tried using the riser card to fit in a 460GTX graphics card? And is there anywhere to get a Flex or TFlex type PSU with wattage in the 500W realm to power that 460GTX? The LaScala SST-LC02 has the same issues. So these two may be out, and obviously if I do go with one of these two, I cannot watercool, unless I do aggressive modding or create an external radbox.

The PC-C32 and PC-C50 are still a bit big for my taste, but are better suited to handle all my criteria. Anyone have any experience, comments on these?

Anyone seen any reviews on the x500fx?

Has anyone successfully built a shroud to fit a 120.2 radiator over the 180mm fans at the base of the Fortress FT-02? Would there be enough space to fit a 120.2 radiator down there on top of those fans and still fit the 460GTX length? I hear that the pictures are deceptive and that this case is a lot shorter vertically than it seems in the mobo mounting area. Alternatively, is there enough space to fit a Thermochill 120.1 at the top 120mm fan area? And don't throw stones at me, but I frankly find the front of the Fortress still too busy with the 5 5.25 bay covers (and is the brand sticker removable?).

The Fortress FT-03 external design speaks to me with just that slit and all. But I am not too thrilled with it being mATX as I run into the same problems as the above slim HTPC cases. And the fact that it is plastic internally also worries me. I guess I am wondering if anyone has seen a prototype of this case in person and what they thought about it.

I am open to suggestions, but as you can see, I am very picky. Please no blingy cases. I want the front to be as simple as possible to match my AVR and Blu-Ray players.

Thank you for all the help. Oh and sorry for the long meandering post.

Just FYI I have questions posted in the other sections of the forums covering actual PC build parts and watercooling parts.

[wiretap]

Why would you build a HTPC with high power gaming parts if you want it to be quiet? You could just do a completely passive cooled mini-ITX ION system with a SSD and have plenty of performance to play all the Blu-ray and HD content you want. Dead silent, zero noise. It would be far cheaper as well.

[justin150]

Like Wiretap I think you have an odd idea in that you want an HTPC with high power gaming parts

Not sure you will get what you want and may need a scratch build case. In terms of parts the PSU to go for would be the Silverstone SFF 450, should have the power you need. For a radiator I would look at Phobya 200x200 rad. Gives you more cooling area (90% of a normal 360 rad) and certainly enough for cooling GPU + PSU. Might be able to get everything into a 250mm cube

[esuyengh]

I want a do it all rig, which happens to be used 50% of the time as my HTPC hooked via an OCUR to cable, 40% of the time as a gaming rig to game big screen on a 50 inch Panasonic 3DTV, and 10% of the time by my wife to edit photos.

I used to believe that I needed a discreet PC for each, but being much older and mature now and having gone through a period where I had 3 different PC's to myself, I realize how pointless and wasteful that really is. I believe strongly now that with the right parts, I can have a perfect balance of silence, power and camouflage (i.e. not standing out from the other media devices in my living room). And this would be cheaper than building a gaming rig and a separate HTPC. Oh by the way, blending in doesn't mean it has to be tiny, just that it shouldn't scream, "hey look I'm a blinged out PC".

[Church]

esuyengh: I too came back to single box doing everything from three separate ones once. Though it's one full tower instead of HTPC, but anyway, i love seeing that old mess gone

[Serra]

I think the HTPC area is, for most people, something best left to a discrete PC - the trick is not to think about it like "another PC to manage", but to think of it like a glorified DVD player and NOT to manage it. Want to customize themes or something? Just don't. Set it up once the right way and forget about it (the "right way" meaning using software that you don't have to worry about not working later... eg. don't pirate for it, because you can't update pirated software with trivial ease). I used to be of the 3 PC type myself and was loathe to introduce another PC for HTPC use after I consolidated, but it has actually worked out to being MILES better.

I don't say that just because an HTPC should be quiet either. I also say it because no-one anywhere has a setup such that:
1. Their TV is optimized for viewing pleasure as a sole entertainment TV
2. Their TV is optimized for computer use (things like photo editing need careful mouse precision... not being set up properly for a long session [think wedding photos] is such a huge pain)
3. Their wife won't hate them for using the computer when she wants to watch What Not To Wear. Think about this: what is your wife doing while you are on the PC? Obviously not on a PC.... maybe watching TV? How does she do that if you've got the TV in use as a monitor?
4. The reverse of #3. If you want to start playing Diablo because you're bored while she's watching What Not To Wear (which you obviously don't want to see), you're going to be unhappy that you can't. Nothing is worth introducing unnecessary strife into a marriage for, you've got to live with eachother for the rest of your lives after all!


Now if we haven't been able to convince you, we should at least help you with your madness. I personally would suggest a Lian Li... I actually like the Lian Li A77-B myself (though you'd have to toss the included temp display, which is pretty useless anyway IMO), but whatever you go with if you're going to have to stare at it all day you'll be thankful that you went with something that looks not just "good" but maybe a bit elegant. You're probably going to end up putting more elbow grease into it with a dremel if you want to internally mount a WC system, but it will pay off in the end.

And as far as the WC system goes... maybe mount it to the bottom and force air out that way, or find a side that will be put up against a wall and cut out the hole there through the sidepanel? Not necessarily ideal from a work or cooling perspective, but you could mount a triple rad if you had the right case to offset it, and you'd be better off from an aesthetic and acoustic perspective.

[Church]

Serra: Stop. I got your points but they describe fully different situation/needs. - In my case those three pc-s were for me alone. And when i'm alone, watching movies on close by 27" lcd is just as good as on 46" TV distanced way further. Once simultaneous PC work or watching movies and working/playing at PC simultaneously by two or more people is considered, as minimum count of boxes same to count of people should be considered.
In my case of all hardware for just me consolidation made great sense. By costs of separate specialised boxes i could made one uber-box well fit for almost all of those roles, +i can pay for upgrades on just it, +i don't have to care about synchronising or making data net-accessible from all of them, +electricity bills went down.

[Serra]

Serra: Stop. I got your points but they describe fully different situation/needs. - In my case those three pc-s were for me alone. And when i'm alone, watching movies on close by 27" lcd is just as good as on 46" TV distanced way further. Once simultaneous PC work or watching movies and working/playing at PC simultaneously by two or more people is considered, as minimum count of boxes same to count of people should be considered.
In my case of all hardware for just me consolidation made great sense. By costs of separate specialised boxes i could made one uber-box well fit for almost all of those roles, +i can pay for upgrades on just it, +i don't have to care about synchronising or making data net-accessible from all of them, +electricity bills went down.

Wasn't aimed at you churchy, when you're alone most are moot points and you can do whatever you want. The OP however is married and wants a consolidated system, so I thought I'd bring up some points about why for married people you can't have a single system and have everyone be happy.

I also included some advice for the build, should he choose to go forward.


Edit: As an afterthought... I doubt you did all you claim. Your electricity bill sure didn't go down for example versus an HTPC + computer... when you're watching an HTPC you draw maybe 40w or so... when you're using an "uber game machine" you're using 500w+. Don't see how 500w+ all the time is better than 40w sometimes and 500w+ others. Also, no, I am 100% positive that either your home theater is not as nice as it could be OR your computer experience is not as good as it could be... I have seen hundreds of such attempts over the years but I have never seen one where I could honestly say it was the best best of both worlds.

You also shouldn't need to upgrade a HTPC more than once every 3-5 years. It's a glorified DVD player, remember. If it can play DVD's + blu-rays and maybe stream media, you need no more from it. The HTPC I've had for almost two years can do all that just fine and I see no reason to upgrade it for another two years.

You do have a point about networking though - a proper setup probably should include networking. I personally opted to just buy a large secondary hard drive for it that I transferred all my movies onto from my primary computer, and then copy over new items as a batch job on occasion, but I do need to set that up to be more convenient as it takes around 5 minutes of personal intervention every month and I feel it should take 1 minute, max. If I purchased or downloaded movies more often though, it would be an increasing hassle for me the way I have it set up now, I admit that.

[esuyengh]

Thank you Serra and Churchy both for your comments.

My situation is fairly unique because it is strictly agreed to be my man-cave (just happens to be located in my living room/office), removing the wife issue entirely. We both have at least one work laptop to fall back on plus another Panny HDTV elsewhere in the house.

I mean in some ways, we are still a multi-computer house because we each have at least one laptop. So maybe a better statement would be that I want to simply limit us to a single desktop.

I will game almost as much as watch TV on that system, which is why I want power. I don't want two PCs sitting by my media system, especially considering how sleek it is without either right now (Harmon Kardon AVR-3550HD, Panny BDT100, Panny TC-P50VT20, Energy RC speakers).

I understand your comments about not wanting to upgrade a HTPC, but I tend to upgrade anyways on a 2 to 3 year cycle (I used to upgrade at least once a year). Honestly though, my cycle is slowing down; I don't play cutting edge games anymore. I don't care about my epeen. I mean I mainly play TF2 and SC2, but I do want to be ready for Mass Effect 3. I am only in the hunt now because my 775 setup just up and died on me, and I have not been satisfied with my self-modded case. I was satisfied with the gaming power of the LGA775, Nvidia 8800gts based system, so I am happy to say I no longer emotionally have to be bleeding edge. But I will be extreme with what I have and push the overclock on the new system, otherwise I wouldn't be referring to this forum.

I think my new i5 2500K, Nvidia 460gtx (yay Microcenter) will carry me easily for 2 or 3 years if I can get them in a case to my satisfaction. And it sounds like the new i5/i7's handle idling power and kicking in turbo real well, helping out my electricity bill hopefully.

So I'll look at the Lian-li suggested. Any idea of any reputable stores that carry the Lian-li TYR-x500fx at a reasonable price? Based purely on specs and look alone, that is currently my favorite case.

The Fortress FT-02 is nice, but I think they messed up the sleekness with the way the drive bays break up the front; the price though makes it the real frontrunner.

I would really love to get a horizontal desktop case though designed to be similar width to an AVR, but all the ones I have seen seem to fail to offer enough space to fit a radiator without heavy modding. Any chance you have seen a worklog for something like a Silverstone Grandia + radiator/watercooling loop?

[esuyengh]

I finally found some of the older revision Lian Li TYR x500's (versus the just released x500fx that has some design changes) for a greatly discounted price (just a few dollars more than the Fortress FT-02) . That may be the answer I have been looking for. Or maybe things are more complex now that I the FT-02 and the x500 are on the same playing field.....

[DTI]

Lian Li PC-C32b water cooled
looks okay for a HTGPC

[k.3nny]

Thats SICK!

[cdawall]

Mine plays games pretty well you could go small with a silverstone sg05 gb h55n and core i7 stuff a 1x120mm rad and cool the whole thing...mines just an h70, 9800gt eco and i3 560es but its silent and quick you could in theory have a big boy version of it...

[esuyengh]

Wow DTI, that does look nice. Since everything is black colored, it is hard to tell in the pic, but are the radiators mounted externally and routed in?

I am shying away from external mounting because my cat did naughty things last time I tried that. But the pics are definitely appreciated. Think you could get one of those radiators internal with some creative modding or just way too tight?

[DTI]

yes you could definitely get a dual 120 rad mounted internally once you removed the hard drive rack one thing that is good about this case is size