If that’s the prices these cards will be listed at where you’re living, give me a call and I’ll buy them for you and send them to you by TNT / FedEx. Cards will be sold for $189 and $215 respectively where I live...Originally Posted by Vardant
If that’s the prices these cards will be listed at where you’re living, give me a call and I’ll buy them for you and send them to you by TNT / FedEx. Cards will be sold for $189 and $215 respectively where I live...
Not even close........
The 6850 will be listed at $ 189
The 6870 will be listed at $ 215
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According to the Chinese site prices are closer to 250$ and 300$ respectively. And the SP count seems to be lower at 800 and 960.
Could be, I saw it at B3D. All I have are the launch prices in my currency and it's really hard to make an estimate from that.If that’s the prices these cards will be listed at where you’re living, give me a call and I’ll buy them for you and send them to you by TNT / FedEx. Cards will be sold for $189 and $215 respectively where I live...
If you think that was too high, you don't even wanna know, how much they will really cost over here.
Last edited by Vardant; 10-17-2010 at 08:31 AM.
Those prices would destroy any hope for nvidia.
I have a hard time believing them too, not only are they really low, but also too close together. The margins would probably be non-existent.
I doubt those prices are correct. As I said before, it makes no business sense to release refreshed 5850/5870's at HALF the price. Either the cards will be slower than expected, and keep the cheap price tag, or they will be faster and be closer to the 58xx series.
If a miracle happens and ATI magically sets the prices above, then Nvidia will do big time price cutting, which is also good.
While i dont believe this prices too (makes no business sense for AMD) ,why do you say that ? Barts supposed to be 230mm2 , nvidias GF104 (aka GTX460 cards) are 330mm2 die size.Youre saying Nvidia losses BIG TIME on every 460 out there ?I have a hard time believing them too, not only are they really low, but also too close together. The margins would probably be non-existent.
As i see it ,those prices are totally doable, however due to weak competition ,i doubt that they will be true, probably around mid way between those and 58xx series ATM stand at.
I have a weird feeling, that NV has much better contract with TSMC, than everybody thinks. Also GF104 is not fully fledged chip, but Barts probably is.
Actually, there is some confusion on how big GF104 actually is, with claims ranging from 330-380mm2. Seeing as GF106 is 240mm2, a 330mm2 GF104 makes very little sense.
I don't understand ... the 6870 -6850 are in the new serie 6K the same line of the 5770 was for the old.... why will you they have the price of the top range ? they are designed for compet with the GTX460 .. with performance higher of the 5850... but it's a new series ... if 6870-6850 have performance of the old 5850-5870 and so the same price, what will happend with 6950-6970-6990? they will sell the 6970 @ 700 dollars and the 6990 @ 1200 dollars ?
Price are fixed by the place got thoses cards in term of performance on the series + competition prices .. They are not based on perf vs old series... or we had pay 2x more for top gpu's with all new series... gpu's will cost 3000dollars so ...
6870 = middle class gpu's = ~ 5770 prices ... (official launch price, not the price you find right now in shop ... here you can find shop who sell 5770 @165CHF (short stock), this make 170dollars )
6970 = Enthusiast, high class gpu = ~ 5870 prices..
Last edited by Lanek; 10-17-2010 at 09:31 AM.
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All in all its bigger than barts for sure.Actually, there is some confusion on how big GF104 actually is, with claims ranging from 330-380mm2. Seeing as GF106 is 240mm2, a 330mm2 GF104 makes very little sense.
So TSMC gives better prices to a contractor with bigger and harder to manufacture chips which sells less units.Well, maybe.I have a weird feeling, that NV has much better contract with TSMC, than everybody thinks. Also GF104 is not fully fledged chip, but Barts probably is.
As to the second part of the phrase, what that even means ? Barts is gonna be mid end chip just like GF104, cayman and GF100 on the highend.Could you elaborate ?
Thats wishfull thinking, and for one, bart cards cost more to produce, bigger die, 256bit bus, more complex PCB.6870 = middle class gpu's = ~ 5770 prices ... (official launch price, not the price you find right now in shop ... here you can find shop who sell 5770 @165CHF (short stock), this make 170dollars )
6970 = Enthusiast, high class gpu = ~ 5870 prices..
Last edited by RaV[666]; 10-17-2010 at 09:43 AM.
The fact that Barts is 230mm^2, possibly > 100mm^2 smaller than a full GF104, and that it should compete/beat the GF104, ought to tell you where ATI can price this
As I said, it does not make business sense for them to release a 5870 equivalent for half the price.
If the price of the 6870 is let's say ~$300, then the 6970 would be around ~$400-$450 or what the 5870 was when it came out (the cheapest 5870 now is still ~$400), and the 6990 would be around $600-$650, which is what hte 5970 was when it came out (and the 5970 is still around $650 even today).
Last edited by Baron_Davis; 10-17-2010 at 09:49 AM.
Depends on what Nvidia's prices are, and what its real competitoin is, and what AMD's goals are
If they want to crush Nvidia in market share, they release Barts XT at < $250 and Nvidia gets wiped out at the lower end... if they want to milk profit margins, then they price it closer to $300
But pricing Barts at 5870 levels defeats the purpose of releasing it to compete with the 460
This is why the price will be quite a bit lower.
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PRO vs 460, XT vs 470/480 then?
Barts is meant to fill in the gap that the 5830 could not fill between the 5770 and 5850. So the most likely pricing is going to be right in between there, with the Pro lower and the XT higher in that range, so that should be a good estimate
I dun see how Barts competes with 460. It more like annihilates it...
Well, 8600 GT wasn't a highend card, and that didn't stop it being priced at US$ 200+. The difference is, while Bart would be at worst half of Cayman & performs quite handsomely (around last gen top end single GPU card), G84 was a quarter of G80, the performance sucked bad yet nVidia had no problem putting it as their midrange card. OTOH, i think ATi would give better value, performance/$, in this gen compared to the last, while the card is still made in the same process node, something that isn't easy to pull, compared to spewing FUDs out of people's rear.
You tell us nothing but FUDs throughout the ordeal. But it's okay, we'll see the truth in the end. I hope you'll be man enough to admit your wrong prediction is things unveiled not the way you described. I know i will give AMD their fair share of lashing & scolding if these new gen cards turn out to give less value compared to last gen & if they pull a renaming BS over HD 5770. Resegmenting & realigning the name for this new gen, while confusing and could be annoying, will not bother me at all if it's priced all right & the performance is satisfying.
Now, that's quite surprising, but we'll see. A card based on 230 mm^2 chip shouldn't cost all that high (GTS 450 says so), so the pricing will reflect the products positioning & performance in the market, plus the saving/added value for customer with this new gen.
While i don't know the truth either way, the price is very much within reason with the variable that we know, chip size, VRAM capacity, PCB design. Whether it will give the right amount of performance for the price it commands, the market will be the judge. Like some other members comment, this chip certainly brings added efficiency while still built in the same process node (IF the performance leaks are correct), now it's up to AMD how much saving that they would put into their own coffer, and what portion goes to the consumers.
GF 104 is 367 mm^2 mm by people who has broke the card and measured it themselves. Judging from GF 106 & GF 108 sizes, i think they're correct & more believable.
Yes, i also thought that indeed nVidia has better contract, but how significant & extensive it is, we can't really tell. One thing for sure, AMD will have the pleasure of market choices beetween TSMC vs GloFo, being an ordinary, unpreferred costumer of TSMC, something that nVidia won't have with their preferred status.
And also yes, GTX 460s weren't full fledged chip cards, but we haven't seen the imaginary full fledged product in the market, have we ? Until then, it's nVidia's duty to prove that creating such product is feasible & doable within technical & economical constraint, outside that, just the noise of fanbois blabbering & forum bantering.
You're right buddy, though with the resegmenting & name realigning + market competitive environment + still built using the same process node, we can't expect the exact same price structure compared to last gen cards. Can we expect the added value, performance/$ for the consumers ? yes, i think we could.
Last edited by spursindonesia; 10-17-2010 at 10:17 AM.
i really hope on lower prices.. i dont mind if 6xxx series are slightly faster. I want lower price and more OC capability
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same.i really hope on lower prices.. i dont mind if 6xxx series are slightly faster. I want lower price and more OC capability
its really funny when you look at reviews showing last generations parts as the leader in price/perf. i like dx11, just not enough to drop 300$ to see only 20% better performance than what i have now, which is still worth 200$
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AMD might not have a choice on pricing, the PCB is more expensive and the US Dollar is crazy weak, even the Australian Dollar is touching 1/1 on the US dollar now.
What we are forgetting are also the R&D costs for AMD compared to Nvidia.
I'm not saying that I can afford and like costly VGA's, but it seems to me they AMD is lately spending more on product development then Nvidia. What I have in mind is the fact that Nvidia already has problems competing with HD 5000 and AMD is launching HD 6000. What did McVidia do in their prime time?
Rename, re-brand and cash-in on the same architecture. I guess its time for AMD to make some money on their graphics division?
that is not why they are releasing it.
they price things to make money. that is it.
not to compete with nvidia. not to take sales from nvidia. not to beat nvidia.
they price things to make lots of money.
and a new product with new features that is roughly the same performance of an old expensive product, guess what that means. that means no low prices, geniuses. that means something like $250 and $300.
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