Dresdenboys' blog: AMD Bulldozer - Patent based research part 2

[Helmore]

We designed the new sockets around the needs of Bulldozer first.
So, thats mean, Bulldozers not AM3+? Or there are two sockets? Some AM3+ and something new?

Bulldozer is going to be using the AM3 socket, just look at the roadmap over here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2871/2
Zambezi is the name of an implementation of Bulldozer meant for the consumer market.

[zir_blazer]

Bulldozer is going to be using the AMD3 socket, just look at the roadmap over here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2871/2
Zambezi is the name of an implementation of Bulldozer meant for the consumer market.

Your AMD3 typo caused me to think that it was actually a NEW Socket. Then I saw this, and figured than that was indeed a typo.

In 2011 we get Bulldozer and it comes in the form of the Zambezi CPU (AMD’s codenames are such fun). You’ll see four and eight core versions of Zambezi. Both will support DDR3 and both will work in Socket-AM3. Obviously guaranteeing motherboard support this early in the game is difficult, but AMD is usually good about maintaining socket compatibility. You may be able to slip a Zambezi into your current day Socket-AM3 motherboards.

Zambezi specifies that its going to fit in Socket AM3 in these slides, but Llano is not specified. However...

The 2011 mainstream desktop platform is called Lynx, purr. It comes with the Llano APU, which as I mentioned before, doesn’t use Bulldozer. Instead Llano is made up of as many as four 32nm Phenom II-like cores. Llano also features an integrated DX11 GPU. Llano will require a new socket as the pinout will have to support video out just like Intel’s Clarkdale.

This means that I was right about Bulldozer being possibily compatible with Socket AM3, and Llano being a new Socket with no defined name. Too bad that my speculations are a few months after official info has been released, but was accurate enough nonetheless.

I don't think there will be an 8 module Bulldozer made on the 32 nm node, not as a single die at least. I expect an 4 module version to be the biggest version for consumers, at least initially.

Two pieces of four Bulldozer Modules is entirely possible and looks realistic. Socket C32 is designed for using Cores the MCM way.

[Helmore]

Your AMD3 typo caused me to think that it was actually a NEW Socket. Then I saw this, and figured than that was indeed a typo.

Oops. Yeah, that's a typo and I just corrected it .

Zambezi specifies that its going to fit in Socket AM3 in these slides, but Llano is not specified. However...

This means that I was right about Bulldozer being possibily compatible with Socket AM3, and Llano being a new Socket with no defined name. Too bad that my speculations are a few months after official info has been released, but was accurate enough nonetheless.

It was known from the moment that AMD started revealing more information regarding Fusion that they would need a new socket for that. As your quote says, you need a way to get that display signal from the APU to the motherboard and that requires a new socket.

Two pieces of four Bulldozer Modules is entirely possible and looks realistic. Socket C32 is designed for using Cores the MCM way.

I was mainly talking about consumer chips, the ones that will actually be bought and used by gamers for example. The MCM that you are talking about is codenamed Interlagos, which will have 2×4 modules (16 cores) on a single package.

[JF-AMD]

Socket C32 is designed for using Cores the MCM way.

No, C32 is for SCM only, 8 total cores.

[zir_blazer]

No, C32 is for SCM only, 8 total cores.

Well, Socket G34, where you place the Magny Cours at. This time it was my typo, sorry

It was known from the moment that AMD started revealing more information regarding Fusion that they would need a new socket for that. As your quote says, you need a way to get that display signal from the APU to the motherboard and that requires a new socket.

Yeah, judging by the date of the article I'm almost half a year outdated. I wasn't active on the news and speculation business at that moment, that is why I missed it.


Besides the question about how powerful Llano's GPU is, how and when AMD will be introducing Fusion based Processors and Bulldozer ones is also an important point of speculation. If Fusion with K10 comes first (That is how things seems to be), then we are going to see a new Socket with its respective Motherboards and Chipsets launching at the same time. A new Chipset makes sense because we don't know if the current ones are compatible with the new platform architecture (Due to the new GPU location and its I/O requeriments), and if anything, considering that the GPU is already in the Processor, it would be wasted silicon even if they are compatible, as mainstream AMD Chipsets comes with IGP and only the highest end ones does not, but that is not where Llano is aimed at.
Llano was supposed to receive a Socket in Notebooks that was called Socket FS1 according to slides of AMD 2007 Financal Analyst Day (And it seems that they are quite late with Llano). Socket FS1 seems to be directly succeding Socket S1 (Low profile, Notebook oriented), so we're not talking about the Desktop Socket for Fusion Processors, that is another one. With FS1 for Fusion Notebooks, the unnamed one for Fusion Desktops, and C32 and G34 at the Workstation and Server for Bulldozer (With no Fusion it seems), we are already at the four Sockets count. But we are forgeting about Bulldozer on Desktop, that is for Socket AM3. So we are going to have five sockets/platforms at the same time this round.
For me, launching Llano on a new Socket then Bulldozer on the older one makes no sense, with the exeption that all currents users will be happy knowing that they have an upgrade patch, but Fusion early adopters wouldn't be that happy. The exception would be that AMD released both Bulldozer for AM3 and the Desktop Fusion Socket at the same time, that doesn't sounds bad as an idea except for making a horrible market segment overlap.
So, the future AMD vs Intel Socket comparision will look like this...


High end Servers
Intel LGA 1567 (8-Way) for Nehalem Xeons (Beckton)
AMD Socket G34 (4-Way) for K10 Opterons MCM (Magny Cours), future Bulldozer MCM


Low end Servers/Workstations
Intel LGA 1366 (2-Way) for Nehalem Xeons (Gulftown), possibily future Sandy Bridge
AMD Socket C32 (2-Way) for K10 Opterons (Lisbon), future Bulldozer


High end Desktop/Enthusiast
Intel LGA 1366 for Nehalem Core i7 9xx (Bloomfield, Gulftown), possibily future Sandy Bridge
AMD Socket AM3 for K10 Phenom II (Deneb, Thuban), future Bulldozer

LGA 1366 is 2-Way capable, but it isn't used like that for normal Desktop users. I suppose that Socket AM3 Should be phased out not so long after Bulldozer release, because we are supposed to see a Fusion Bulldozer that makes it irrelevant. It just segments in two the AMD Desktop market, something that was like that in the Socket 754 and 939 days until Socket AM2 joined them again. However, S939 superceded S754 (Dual Channel vs Single Channel), AM3 vs Desktop Fusion doesn't supercedes because they got different features, being the either integrated GPU or early Bulldozer the main difference.


Mid end Desktop/Mainstream
Intel LGA 1156 for Nehalem Core i5, i7 (Lynnfield)
AMD unnamed Socket for Fusion K10 (Llano), possibily future Fusion Bulldozer


Low end Desktop/Budget
Intel LGA 1156 for Nehalem Core i3, i5 (Clarkdale)
AMD unnamed Socket for Fusion K10 (Llano), possibily future Fusion Bulldozer

Intel market segmentation got the issue that you have in the same Socket platform, Processors with and without GPU that may requiere different Chipsets for proper support, different features, etc. AMD usually doesn't go rampage on similar-but-different Processor and Chipsets designs, so it could be safe to say that everything on a Socket is fully supported and as similar as possible, so I suppose that all the AMD Processors for that new Socket will have the GPU.
If there is a thing where AMD is vastly superior, is that they usually choose a straightforward way for its platforms with things that supercedes the previous one, without making you having to do choices about feature tradeoffs (Look a list of features enable/disable on Xeons Processors and attempt to understand if it makes sense. You are ready to get a VIP stance on a mental asylum) but just walk a simple stair. This segmentation would break in two that stair.

This is how I see the short term future from now up to the release of Llano, that is when we are supposed to hear the most of AMD giving away info.

[Behemot]

...

I believe AMDis focused primary on notebooks with Llano. New socket does not really matter for laptop, so where is the problem?